4 ms·

Its great to see Governments finally acting against Crypto. The technology will float around, but the actual formal legal exchange of fiat for crypto should be

Its great to see Governments finally acting against Crypto. The technology will float around, but the actual formal legal exchange of fiat for crypto should be banned. This will indirectly disable Ransomware, since businesses will not be able to purchase the coins. And by reducing the price of coins, reduce the waste (electricity, hardware, human effort) associated with 'mining' them.

jMyles 5y ago
This perspective is just so alien to me. I don't understand how anyone can casually express such vulgar celebration of the state, knowing the misery that it inflicts on the most vulnerable in society, with money as its chief method of lifelong emotional torment. Moreover, your predictions seem completely bombastic to me. Has there ever been a case where governments banned something and the resulting black market settled at a cheaper equilibrium? I can't think of one.
- ArkanExplorer 5y ago
  The State can be replaced democratically. Crypto is full of pump and dump and exit scams. Bitcoin et al are also algorithmically supply inelastic. As demand for the coins decreases (due to the inability to actually buy them), the price will decline. This is basic supply and demand economics.
  - Shosty123 5y ago
    "The State can be replaced democratically." Tell that to my friend who had his family's fortune wiped out in Argentina twice due to government seizure and hyperinflation before fleeing the country. Are these people just supposed to just take it on the chin for generations until their governments/societies stabilize? I don't know how anyone can see no value in a medium of exchange outside of government currency controls.
  - newfriend 5y ago
    The State is forced upon you. Crypto is opt-in. If you think it's a pump and dump, then just don't participate. Stop forcing people to do what you want, stop banning things you don't like. Leave me alone.
    - ArkanExplorer 5y ago
      When Crypto mining leads to shortages of computer chips and electricity, and widespread ransomware, it is most definitely not 'opt-in'.
      - BLKNSLVR 5y ago
        No, that's "the market", that's capitalism (computer parts anyway). Electricity shortages haven't been caused by crypto, and neither is crypto the cause of widespread ransomware. It may be the currency in which ransoms are desired to be paid, but to say they're the cause is misleading. You could well argue that the fact currency for which payment is demanded is proof of its use-case as a currency / transfer of value. Criminals and the porn industry are always the canaries in the coal mine for "new". That criminals are increasingly using it is evidence of it's success as opposed to evidence of its imminent demise.
  - jMyles 5y ago
    > The State can be replaced democratically. Is this still relevant in the information age? I care a lot about my communities, and I don't think that, from my position of privilege, I can justify going around and telling people, "just vote - the violence against you will stop eventually." I'm not saying crypto is a complete answer either, but I think that its status as a change agent outside the political process is something to be celebrated, not condemned.
    - elefanten 5y ago
      This perspective is completely alien to me. What misery and violence is the state uniquely causing that wouldn't be recreated by other forces in a non-state society? That's putting aside all the generations, centuries and millenia of lessons learned that are enshrined in how a government-run state runs. It's hard to guess what alternative you're even imagining, but do you think some anarcho-crypto-decentralized-eco-intentional-autarkic commune where all internal "violence" has been eradicated can live in a bubble detached from the rest of the world? What is your workable alternative to the state?
      - jMyles 5y ago
        I'm not much for utopian visions, though I respect some people who are. I do notice that, at this moment in history (but I grant, not at all moments) the political processes (tactics like voting, lawsuits, etc) seem to produce changes that concentrate privilege. And I also notice that change agency outside the political processes seems to be much more humane. Crypto is just one example of this; mutual aid in the broader sense remains an example. I've gone back-and-forth on this in my lifetime (including the 5-year period of formal study for my polysci degree), but from where I stand now, I don't think that the marginal safety conferred by sticking to the political processes alone is worth the sacrifice to our suffering friends and neighbors. It's 2021, and we still have two million people in prison, six million in various phases of the carceral system, wars for profit around the globe, and a currency controlled exclusively by the already-wealthy for their own purposes (which, by the way, I don't think are actually served in this configuration either). So yeah, I think let's start to build things to allow the state to be relieved so that we can take care of each other.
- imtringued 5y ago
  > I don't understand how anyone can casually express such vulgar celebration of the state, knowing the misery that it inflicts on the most vulnerable in society, with money as its chief method of lifelong emotional torment. Power goes both ways. States created more prosperity and misery than anything else.
  - logicchains 5y ago
    >Power goes both ways. States created more prosperity and misery than anything else. Citation needed? America had more economic growth in the 1800s when the state was much smaller. The large states in communist Russia and China held their economic back decades compared to western countries with smaller states.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- over_bridge 5y ago
  The perspective you are offering seems to be an extreme one as well. The idea that the 'misery' inflicted on society is caused by financial manipulation by governments seems out there. I'm guessing the laws and cultural norms around how you acquire your money (monopoly, disclosure, insider trading, kickbacks) or pay tax (or game the system to avoid it) have much more to do with inequities in society, and that financial manipulation is far more rampant in the private sector than the public. The rabid anti-government messaging is not one I can relate to.
  - BLKNSLVR 5y ago
    Not who you're replying to, but my perspective around the rabid anti-government messaging is that it is Government that's responsible for regulation of the existing financial system, which has been breaking laws with impunity and getting merely slaps on the wrist and continuing on their way. Regulation appears to be simultaneously lacking in scope and under-enforced. And it's the role of the Government do make sure that regulation is both appropriate and enforced. Without appropriate regulation and enforcement, the government is the facilitator to the finance industry's villainy. For the people.
spottybanana 5y ago
> The technology will float around, but the actual formal legal exchange of fiat for crypto should be banned. The opposite is pretty much happening, regulation. So government is licensing the exchanges and after that the licenced exchanges will have much better foothold in their business as the unlicenced exchanges get kicked out. In the long run for the legit users of crypto this will be for the better.

jMyles 5y ago

This perspective is just so alien to me. I don't understand how anyone can casually express such vulgar celebration of the state, knowing the misery that it inflicts on the most vulnerable in society, with money as its chief method of lifelong emotional torment. Moreover, your predictions seem completely bombastic to me. Has there ever been a case where governments banned something and the resulting black market settled at a cheaper equilibrium? I can't think of one.

ArkanExplorer 5y ago
The State can be replaced democratically. Crypto is full of pump and dump and exit scams. Bitcoin et al are also algorithmically supply inelastic. As demand for the coins decreases (due to the inability to actually buy them), the price will decline. This is basic supply and demand economics.
- Shosty123 5y ago
  "The State can be replaced democratically." Tell that to my friend who had his family's fortune wiped out in Argentina twice due to government seizure and hyperinflation before fleeing the country. Are these people just supposed to just take it on the chin for generations until their governments/societies stabilize? I don't know how anyone can see no value in a medium of exchange outside of government currency controls.
- newfriend 5y ago
  The State is forced upon you. Crypto is opt-in. If you think it's a pump and dump, then just don't participate. Stop forcing people to do what you want, stop banning things you don't like. Leave me alone.
  - ArkanExplorer 5y ago
    When Crypto mining leads to shortages of computer chips and electricity, and widespread ransomware, it is most definitely not 'opt-in'.
    - BLKNSLVR 5y ago
      No, that's "the market", that's capitalism (computer parts anyway). Electricity shortages haven't been caused by crypto, and neither is crypto the cause of widespread ransomware. It may be the currency in which ransoms are desired to be paid, but to say they're the cause is misleading. You could well argue that the fact currency for which payment is demanded is proof of its use-case as a currency / transfer of value. Criminals and the porn industry are always the canaries in the coal mine for "new". That criminals are increasingly using it is evidence of it's success as opposed to evidence of its imminent demise.
- jMyles 5y ago
  > The State can be replaced democratically. Is this still relevant in the information age? I care a lot about my communities, and I don't think that, from my position of privilege, I can justify going around and telling people, "just vote - the violence against you will stop eventually." I'm not saying crypto is a complete answer either, but I think that its status as a change agent outside the political process is something to be celebrated, not condemned.
  - elefanten 5y ago
    This perspective is completely alien to me. What misery and violence is the state uniquely causing that wouldn't be recreated by other forces in a non-state society? That's putting aside all the generations, centuries and millenia of lessons learned that are enshrined in how a government-run state runs. It's hard to guess what alternative you're even imagining, but do you think some anarcho-crypto-decentralized-eco-intentional-autarkic commune where all internal "violence" has been eradicated can live in a bubble detached from the rest of the world? What is your workable alternative to the state?
    - jMyles 5y ago
      I'm not much for utopian visions, though I respect some people who are. I do notice that, at this moment in history (but I grant, not at all moments) the political processes (tactics like voting, lawsuits, etc) seem to produce changes that concentrate privilege. And I also notice that change agency outside the political processes seems to be much more humane. Crypto is just one example of this; mutual aid in the broader sense remains an example. I've gone back-and-forth on this in my lifetime (including the 5-year period of formal study for my polysci degree), but from where I stand now, I don't think that the marginal safety conferred by sticking to the political processes alone is worth the sacrifice to our suffering friends and neighbors. It's 2021, and we still have two million people in prison, six million in various phases of the carceral system, wars for profit around the globe, and a currency controlled exclusively by the already-wealthy for their own purposes (which, by the way, I don't think are actually served in this configuration either). So yeah, I think let's start to build things to allow the state to be relieved so that we can take care of each other.
imtringued 5y ago
> I don't understand how anyone can casually express such vulgar celebration of the state, knowing the misery that it inflicts on the most vulnerable in society, with money as its chief method of lifelong emotional torment. Power goes both ways. States created more prosperity and misery than anything else.
- logicchains 5y ago
  >Power goes both ways. States created more prosperity and misery than anything else. Citation needed? America had more economic growth in the 1800s when the state was much smaller. The large states in communist Russia and China held their economic back decades compared to western countries with smaller states.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
over_bridge 5y ago
The perspective you are offering seems to be an extreme one as well. The idea that the 'misery' inflicted on society is caused by financial manipulation by governments seems out there. I'm guessing the laws and cultural norms around how you acquire your money (monopoly, disclosure, insider trading, kickbacks) or pay tax (or game the system to avoid it) have much more to do with inequities in society, and that financial manipulation is far more rampant in the private sector than the public. The rabid anti-government messaging is not one I can relate to.
- BLKNSLVR 5y ago
  Not who you're replying to, but my perspective around the rabid anti-government messaging is that it is Government that's responsible for regulation of the existing financial system, which has been breaking laws with impunity and getting merely slaps on the wrist and continuing on their way. Regulation appears to be simultaneously lacking in scope and under-enforced. And it's the role of the Government do make sure that regulation is both appropriate and enforced. Without appropriate regulation and enforcement, the government is the facilitator to the finance industry's villainy. For the people.

spottybanana 5y ago

> The technology will float around, but the actual formal legal exchange of fiat for crypto should be banned. The opposite is pretty much happening, regulation. So government is licensing the exchanges and after that the licenced exchanges will have much better foothold in their business as the unlicenced exchanges get kicked out. In the long run for the legit users of crypto this will be for the better.