6 ms·

According to an MS engineer, you will be able to sideload APKs to Windows, which solves the problem for any app that doesn't need GMS: https://twitter.com/ajon

According to an MS engineer, you will be able to sideload APKs to Windows, which solves the problem for any app that doesn't need GMS: https://twitter.com/ajonoguy/status/1408221001951809539 https://twitter.com/ajonoguy/status/1408221001951809539

kaszanka 5y ago
You will be able to install the software you want on the computer you own without going through some corporation's central "store"? The fact that this is surprising or noteworthy is just sad.
- canadianfella 5y ago
  Who said it was surprising?
- least 5y ago
  If APKs were normal Windows executables I'd agree with you. But given that they're not, there's not really an expectation that they'd just work.
  - klodolph 5y ago
    Exactly—also given that side loading was, for a brief moment, a Windows Enterprise-only feature, if only for Metro apps.
  - IshKebab 5y ago
    What does the fact that they are not PE exes have to do with expectations about sideloading? Would you not expect to be able to side load a .jar either?
    - klodolph 5y ago
      Microsoft previously disabled side loading of Metro apps. This happened in the Windows 8 era. You either had to purchase a side-loading key (per machine) or use Windows Enterprise. My memory of the details is fading, thankfully, but I think side loading was disabled for 8.0 and 8.1 (without a key), and the restrictions were removed or relaxed in 8.2.
  - croes 5y ago
    Parent was talking about side loading without store, not that Android Apps work on Windows. So it shouldn't be anything special to install whatever file format you want on Windows regardless the source.
    - least 5y ago
      That's absolutely not the same thing. I can download APK files all day on just about any operating system I want. That isn't equivalent to "installing" them.
      - croes 5y ago
        It's not about the file type but the file source. On Windows the source of file to install bis irrelevant, so side loading is not a feature. So why is new that you can install files that are not from a store? Install APK? That's new. Sideload a program? Not new, it's windows standard. Here some news for you. You can even side load Exe files and MSI files. See, nothing special. APK yes, side loading no.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        least 5y ago
        Side loading is a term that in the context of Android applications is well understood to be installing android applications that are not on the Play Store. It is not a synonym for downloading files to your computer system nor is it a synonym for moving files between two devices.
        croes 5y ago
        >It is not a synonym for downloading files to your computer system nor is it a synonym for moving files between two devices Actually, it is: "Sideloading describes the process of transferring files between two local devices, in particular between a computer and a mobile device such as a mobile phone, smartphone, PDA, tablet, portable media player or e-reader." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sideloading https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sideloading Additionally side loading refers to mobile devices not desktop PCs.
  - selfhoster11 5y ago
    They are not normal executables, but they sure are normal Android executables. I don't see how that changes the expectations about being able to execute them.
    - jayd16 5y ago
      "Normal" (as in most common) means Google Play Store native apps. That's a lot of functionality to shim.
      - a1369209993 5y ago
        Sure. And 'normal' ELF executables link against libc and will not work if it's missing. If you want to argue quality-of-implementation[0] issues, go right ahead, but that's not the same problem as requiring code signing/app store. 0: ie, that windows doesn't really support APKs because it doesn't provide the APIs needed for them to work properly
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- bobiny 5y ago
  I'm not sure ownership applies to today's software. When you buy it and get security updates for some time - sure, but when you get new features in mandatory updates it washes out what the actual product is. Maybe you don't want new features? Best you can do with Windows 10 is postpone updates for 35 days.
shadilay 5y ago
I suppose this will expose the lie that Android is anything like an open platform and not almost completely reliant on Google.
- EvilEy3 5y ago
  I'm sorry to disappoint you, but there's a repository of FOSS called F-Droid which has no ties to Google.
  - shadilay 5y ago
    Most of the apps on my phone are from FDroid. This does not mean that you can have a phone with any comparable level of functionality without relying on Google. You can see for yourself by installing a stock android ROM with no google play services or microG.
  - kdkdksmsn 5y ago
    How can you possibly think this is a rebuttal? Whoop de do, there exists an also-ran OSS marketplace on the platform. In what way does that rebut what the grandparent said?
  - croes 5y ago
    There exists a repository named Cydia for iOS with no ties to Apple, therefore iOS is an open system? Google moves essential parts of Android to the proprietary Google services and can easily enforce restrictions for smartphone manufacturers, so 3rd party stores depend on Googles benevolence.
  - selfhoster11 5y ago
    F-Droid has a major flaw, in that Android (as of now) doesn't allow auto-updating of apps outside of Google Play. I only install a limited number of apps from there for that reason.
    - MonaroVXR 5y ago
      In Android 12 app get updated too
LegitShady 5y ago
The problem is like any software feature nowadays it can be restricted in the future once general acceptance occurs. And most users who don't know anything abour sideliading will download from Amazon and not know what is going on.
- sharken 5y ago
  Yes, the concerns raised about resigning apps and sideloading capability is not something the average Windows user will care about. Android apps are also inferior to Windows apps, so the real question is: Who is going to use Android apps on Windows. Android app developers seem to be the target group.
  - LegitShady 5y ago
    > Yes, the concerns raised about resigning apps and sideloading capability is not something the average Windows user will care about. It's not something they'll understand the significance of. That doesn't mean it isn't important. >Android apps are also inferior to Windows apps, so the real question is: Who is going to use Android apps on Windows. Many people who use their phones for a lot of the time and want a similar/identical experience on their laptop. >Android app developers seem to be the target group. I disagree. It's for people who want snapchat or signal or whatever on their devices. Android developers already have emulators or test devices.
  - als0 5y ago
    Yep. I've tried Android apps on ChromeOS and iOS apps on macOS. They're so out of place and clunky...the average computing user just won't like them. The developer angle is the only one that makes sense.
    - indymike 5y ago
      About that. Most people are great with having access to Android apps on their Chromebook... Android apps let you do work on a Chromebook (example:video editing) where a local app really helps. Some Android apps work really well. Others not so much... That is because the developer hasn't done what needs to be done to make their app behave with freeform window mode. Those that don't either grab the whole screen or run in a phone sized window. Android has always had mouse support (original Android phones had a touch screen and trackball). Apps that do support freeform window mode work really well on ChromeOS, too. Ok, so why even have freeform window mode? Well, that is because Android has a "desktop mode" that is supported by some Android 10+ devices. If you have a USBC/HDMI/USB adapter (same thing you use with newer macs), you can plug your phone in and use it like a desktop. It's not great, but it is surprisingly useful, especially when an airline loses your laptop bag.
brundolf 5y ago
Was just about to ask this. Another question is, how does Amazon solve the GMS problem? Do they provide their own shim library, modify the apps somehow, or something else? Could the whole Windows 11 thing pressure developers not to rely on Google APIs now that there's more competition in the space?
- zinekeller 5y ago
  It's like Huawei's HMS: it's not a drop-in solution, which means that you can't just upload the APK to the Amazon app store without changes.
Meai 5y ago
I think this is going to end up giving a lot of power to the Android ecosystem. I never felt much compelled to make an Android app but now that I can possibly be as simple as double clicking an .apk and it opens in a window... that changes things quite a bit for me. Microsoft should tap into this synergy and somehow create an IDE that can pump out both Android .apks and Windows apps with the exact same design, usability and build pipeline.

kaszanka 5y ago

You will be able to install the software you want on the computer you own without going through some corporation's central "store"? The fact that this is surprising or noteworthy is just sad.

canadianfella 5y ago
Who said it was surprising?
least 5y ago
If APKs were normal Windows executables I'd agree with you. But given that they're not, there's not really an expectation that they'd just work.
- klodolph 5y ago
  Exactly—also given that side loading was, for a brief moment, a Windows Enterprise-only feature, if only for Metro apps.
- IshKebab 5y ago
  What does the fact that they are not PE exes have to do with expectations about sideloading? Would you not expect to be able to side load a .jar either?
  - klodolph 5y ago
    Microsoft previously disabled side loading of Metro apps. This happened in the Windows 8 era. You either had to purchase a side-loading key (per machine) or use Windows Enterprise. My memory of the details is fading, thankfully, but I think side loading was disabled for 8.0 and 8.1 (without a key), and the restrictions were removed or relaxed in 8.2.
- croes 5y ago
  Parent was talking about side loading without store, not that Android Apps work on Windows. So it shouldn't be anything special to install whatever file format you want on Windows regardless the source.
  - least 5y ago
    That's absolutely not the same thing. I can download APK files all day on just about any operating system I want. That isn't equivalent to "installing" them.
    - croes 5y ago
      It's not about the file type but the file source. On Windows the source of file to install bis irrelevant, so side loading is not a feature. So why is new that you can install files that are not from a store? Install APK? That's new. Sideload a program? Not new, it's windows standard. Here some news for you. You can even side load Exe files and MSI files. See, nothing special. APK yes, side loading no.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - least 5y ago
        Side loading is a term that in the context of Android applications is well understood to be installing android applications that are not on the Play Store. It is not a synonym for downloading files to your computer system nor is it a synonym for moving files between two devices.
        croes 5y ago
        >It is not a synonym for downloading files to your computer system nor is it a synonym for moving files between two devices Actually, it is: "Sideloading describes the process of transferring files between two local devices, in particular between a computer and a mobile device such as a mobile phone, smartphone, PDA, tablet, portable media player or e-reader." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sideloading https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sideloading Additionally side loading refers to mobile devices not desktop PCs.
- selfhoster11 5y ago
  They are not normal executables, but they sure are normal Android executables. I don't see how that changes the expectations about being able to execute them.
  - jayd16 5y ago
    "Normal" (as in most common) means Google Play Store native apps. That's a lot of functionality to shim.
    - a1369209993 5y ago
      Sure. And 'normal' ELF executables link against libc and will not work if it's missing. If you want to argue quality-of-implementation[0] issues, go right ahead, but that's not the same problem as requiring code signing/app store. 0: ie, that windows doesn't really support APKs because it doesn't provide the APIs needed for them to work properly
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
bobiny 5y ago
I'm not sure ownership applies to today's software. When you buy it and get security updates for some time - sure, but when you get new features in mandatory updates it washes out what the actual product is. Maybe you don't want new features? Best you can do with Windows 10 is postpone updates for 35 days.

shadilay 5y ago

I suppose this will expose the lie that Android is anything like an open platform and not almost completely reliant on Google.

EvilEy3 5y ago
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but there's a repository of FOSS called F-Droid which has no ties to Google.
- shadilay 5y ago
  Most of the apps on my phone are from FDroid. This does not mean that you can have a phone with any comparable level of functionality without relying on Google. You can see for yourself by installing a stock android ROM with no google play services or microG.
- kdkdksmsn 5y ago
  How can you possibly think this is a rebuttal? Whoop de do, there exists an also-ran OSS marketplace on the platform. In what way does that rebut what the grandparent said?
- croes 5y ago
  There exists a repository named Cydia for iOS with no ties to Apple, therefore iOS is an open system? Google moves essential parts of Android to the proprietary Google services and can easily enforce restrictions for smartphone manufacturers, so 3rd party stores depend on Googles benevolence.
- selfhoster11 5y ago
  F-Droid has a major flaw, in that Android (as of now) doesn't allow auto-updating of apps outside of Google Play. I only install a limited number of apps from there for that reason.
  - MonaroVXR 5y ago
    In Android 12 app get updated too

LegitShady 5y ago

The problem is like any software feature nowadays it can be restricted in the future once general acceptance occurs. And most users who don't know anything abour sideliading will download from Amazon and not know what is going on.

sharken 5y ago
Yes, the concerns raised about resigning apps and sideloading capability is not something the average Windows user will care about. Android apps are also inferior to Windows apps, so the real question is: Who is going to use Android apps on Windows. Android app developers seem to be the target group.
- LegitShady 5y ago
  > Yes, the concerns raised about resigning apps and sideloading capability is not something the average Windows user will care about. It's not something they'll understand the significance of. That doesn't mean it isn't important. >Android apps are also inferior to Windows apps, so the real question is: Who is going to use Android apps on Windows. Many people who use their phones for a lot of the time and want a similar/identical experience on their laptop. >Android app developers seem to be the target group. I disagree. It's for people who want snapchat or signal or whatever on their devices. Android developers already have emulators or test devices.
- als0 5y ago
  Yep. I've tried Android apps on ChromeOS and iOS apps on macOS. They're so out of place and clunky...the average computing user just won't like them. The developer angle is the only one that makes sense.
  - indymike 5y ago
    About that. Most people are great with having access to Android apps on their Chromebook... Android apps let you do work on a Chromebook (example:video editing) where a local app really helps. Some Android apps work really well. Others not so much... That is because the developer hasn't done what needs to be done to make their app behave with freeform window mode. Those that don't either grab the whole screen or run in a phone sized window. Android has always had mouse support (original Android phones had a touch screen and trackball). Apps that do support freeform window mode work really well on ChromeOS, too. Ok, so why even have freeform window mode? Well, that is because Android has a "desktop mode" that is supported by some Android 10+ devices. If you have a USBC/HDMI/USB adapter (same thing you use with newer macs), you can plug your phone in and use it like a desktop. It's not great, but it is surprisingly useful, especially when an airline loses your laptop bag.

brundolf 5y ago

Was just about to ask this. Another question is, how does Amazon solve the GMS problem? Do they provide their own shim library, modify the apps somehow, or something else? Could the whole Windows 11 thing pressure developers not to rely on Google APIs now that there's more competition in the space?

zinekeller 5y ago
It's like Huawei's HMS: it's not a drop-in solution, which means that you can't just upload the APK to the Amazon app store without changes.

Meai 5y ago

I think this is going to end up giving a lot of power to the Android ecosystem. I never felt much compelled to make an Android app but now that I can possibly be as simple as double clicking an .apk and it opens in a window... that changes things quite a bit for me. Microsoft should tap into this synergy and somehow create an IDE that can pump out both Android .apks and Windows apps with the exact same design, usability and build pipeline.