3 ms·

> are we the baddies I'm quite torn. I feel like a dissonance in theory and practice is at play here. If you ask people about "American values" a lot of times

> are we the baddies I'm quite torn. I feel like a dissonance in theory and practice is at play here. If you ask people about "American values" a lot of times you'll come up with things around freedom, liberty, in general individualism and protection from the "other" of tyrannical government. That's the theory. In practice, those individuals that make up U.S. intelligence agencies justify the dissonance between their tyrannical actions and their ideals by arguments such as "if it were the Russian/Chinese/Other on top things would be worse", etc. All boiling down to "necessary evils". So, which is better, a tyrannical regime that professes values of liberty or a tyrannical regime that tacitly admits that it's tyrannical? I feel like I may be betraying a bit too much of my lack of authority and competence on the subject, but there's something that has stuck with me as the central point of one of the sides at the end of the anime "Legends of the Galactic Heroes". SPOILER Paraphrasing: "Democracy may be just as bad for the people as autocracy, but at least in democracy the people deserve their fate".

atoav 5y ago
I think this is a false dichotomy all together. Staying true to the values you promised to defend does not mean you are automatically hand over the power to the next, much worse tyranny. If Assange would have gone free and unbothered the only real hard consequence for our governments would be a PR debacle (which arguably already happened). And a strong precedent that whistleblowers can blow their whistle without having their lives destroyed by tyranny. That means more people can blow the whistle which should be no issue if you are the good ones and act ethically sound.
raxxorrax 5y ago
> So, which is better [...] Your juxtaposition is wrong in the first place, but yes, that is a common line of thought in rationalizing breaking the laws you are supposed to protect. On the contrary, it leads down the same road, so there isn't any practical difference.

atoav 5y ago

I think this is a false dichotomy all together. Staying true to the values you promised to defend does not mean you are automatically hand over the power to the next, much worse tyranny. If Assange would have gone free and unbothered the only real hard consequence for our governments would be a PR debacle (which arguably already happened). And a strong precedent that whistleblowers can blow their whistle without having their lives destroyed by tyranny. That means more people can blow the whistle which should be no issue if you are the good ones and act ethically sound.

raxxorrax 5y ago

> So, which is better [...] Your juxtaposition is wrong in the first place, but yes, that is a common line of thought in rationalizing breaking the laws you are supposed to protect. On the contrary, it leads down the same road, so there isn't any practical difference.