7 ms·

The problem is that in the US, house structures are built as large and cheaply as possibly, with all the spending in finish and features. The US is in the ston

The problem is that in the US, house structures are built as large and cheaply as possibly, with all the spending in finish and features. The US is in the stone age when it comes to wall construction (for longevity and energy savings), vapor control, doors and windows. I have a small project and I am having to order my windows, house wrap/wrb and tape from European suppliers.

erentz 5y ago
What’s different about US and EU house wrap?
- seb1204 5y ago
  Some time ago I spoke to an architect from Europe who was living and building in New Zealand. He said that good quality double glazed window are not available. Her ordered them from Europe. (I'm curious is I remember this correctly or maybe the situation has improved now). In Australia there certainly are no double glazed windows in most single home buildings.
  - maratc 5y ago
    The reason might be that there is no need in double glazed windows in AU/NZ.
    - tuatoru 5y ago
      It (the reason) is not. Most of NZ gets cold enough to need (at least) double paned windows, and all of NZ needs low-emissivity glass to reduce heat gain in summer. I believe the same is true of Australia. NZ's current building standards are state of the art for the 1970s. As gp said, specifying ordinary modern designs, materials and and fittings (by European standards) gets you looked at as though you're from outer space. NZ's housing stock is cold, damp, and mouldy inside for the most part. Not coincidentally NZ has one of the highest rates of asthma in the world.
      - maratc 5y ago
        I went through a process of building an energy-efficient house, with double paned windows, thermo-resistant window frames, aerated concrete blocks, roof insulation and what not. This came at a significant surplus in my region, where 99% of the construction comes without it, and I got outer space looks all the time. According to my calculations, the return on investment on reduced electricity costs will come in about 100-200 years, if not more. In the meantime, if my house will end up in the market, it would hardly sell for any premium over any other house of similar footage in that area, so it's unlikely I would ever recover these costs.
    - oblio 5y ago
      First of all, that's generically false. Almost every new housing unit in this world should use triple glazing. It's just great insulation and it will reduce both heating and cooling bills and you know, climate change and all that jazz. Secondly, NZ, OK, maybe it won't need even double glazing. But aren't AU summers super hot?
      - maratc 5y ago
        > Almost every new housing unit in this world should use triple glazing I agree that it "should". The added costs don't justify it, that's why it usually doesn't. In my region, ROI on triple glazing is in hundreds of years.
  - valdiorn 5y ago
    Was watching a Scott Brown Carpentry video on Youtube where he mentioned most houses in NZ don't have floor/base insulation because it's not needed, the temperature differences aren't that big apparently. I was really surprised.
- markvdb 5y ago
  Energy is comparatively cheap in the US. As an example, average natural gas prices for consumers have recently gone up to around 0.3€/m³ [0]. In one of the cheapest places in Europe, the Netherlands, itself a large natural gas supplier, it is about .79€/m³[1]. This does not encourage a culture of energy savings. Relevant experience just is not as deeply ingrained. Yet, if I may hope so. Some examples, just concerning windows, unfortunately without references: - One can still buy and legally install single pane windows in most of the US. - A significant share of new windows in the US apparently still are double pane. - New windows in the US are still often filled with air instead of specialised gases. - Multi-chambered pvc windows are still being marketed as a tech innovation in some places in the US, while these are bog standard bottom line products even in the Baltic states. - Try and ask your average window installer about air tightness seals and blower door tests. [0] https://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/ng_pri_sum_a_EPG0_PRS_DMcf_m.htm https://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/ng_pri_sum_a_EPG0_PRS_DMcf_m.htm [1] https://www.milieucentraal.nl/energie-besparen/inzicht-in-je-energierekening/energierekening/ https://www.milieucentraal.nl/energie-besparen/inzicht-in-je...
  - Scoundreller 5y ago
    If the US depended on something from Russia, I'm sure they'd be huge on conserving it too. I get NL currently exports more than it imports, it still means everyone else will pay a premium for EU-sourced gas, or wants it there as their supply.
    - hef19898 5y ago
      Not that Europe ever had an issue with Russian gas deliveries, or Soviet ones back during the Cold War. Ever. Ukraine is different in that regard. And that has nothing to do with energy saving for stuff like heating.
      - manmal 5y ago
        There was a gas scare a few years back. I don’t remember the specifics, but essentially Russia threatened parts of Europe to go without gas for a while.

erentz 5y ago

What’s different about US and EU house wrap?

seb1204 5y ago
Some time ago I spoke to an architect from Europe who was living and building in New Zealand. He said that good quality double glazed window are not available. Her ordered them from Europe. (I'm curious is I remember this correctly or maybe the situation has improved now). In Australia there certainly are no double glazed windows in most single home buildings.
- maratc 5y ago
  The reason might be that there is no need in double glazed windows in AU/NZ.
  - tuatoru 5y ago
    It (the reason) is not. Most of NZ gets cold enough to need (at least) double paned windows, and all of NZ needs low-emissivity glass to reduce heat gain in summer. I believe the same is true of Australia. NZ's current building standards are state of the art for the 1970s. As gp said, specifying ordinary modern designs, materials and and fittings (by European standards) gets you looked at as though you're from outer space. NZ's housing stock is cold, damp, and mouldy inside for the most part. Not coincidentally NZ has one of the highest rates of asthma in the world.
    - maratc 5y ago
      I went through a process of building an energy-efficient house, with double paned windows, thermo-resistant window frames, aerated concrete blocks, roof insulation and what not. This came at a significant surplus in my region, where 99% of the construction comes without it, and I got outer space looks all the time. According to my calculations, the return on investment on reduced electricity costs will come in about 100-200 years, if not more. In the meantime, if my house will end up in the market, it would hardly sell for any premium over any other house of similar footage in that area, so it's unlikely I would ever recover these costs.
  - oblio 5y ago
    First of all, that's generically false. Almost every new housing unit in this world should use triple glazing. It's just great insulation and it will reduce both heating and cooling bills and you know, climate change and all that jazz. Secondly, NZ, OK, maybe it won't need even double glazing. But aren't AU summers super hot?
    - maratc 5y ago
      > Almost every new housing unit in this world should use triple glazing I agree that it "should". The added costs don't justify it, that's why it usually doesn't. In my region, ROI on triple glazing is in hundreds of years.
- valdiorn 5y ago
  Was watching a Scott Brown Carpentry video on Youtube where he mentioned most houses in NZ don't have floor/base insulation because it's not needed, the temperature differences aren't that big apparently. I was really surprised.
markvdb 5y ago
Energy is comparatively cheap in the US. As an example, average natural gas prices for consumers have recently gone up to around 0.3€/m³ [0]. In one of the cheapest places in Europe, the Netherlands, itself a large natural gas supplier, it is about .79€/m³[1]. This does not encourage a culture of energy savings. Relevant experience just is not as deeply ingrained. Yet, if I may hope so. Some examples, just concerning windows, unfortunately without references: - One can still buy and legally install single pane windows in most of the US. - A significant share of new windows in the US apparently still are double pane. - New windows in the US are still often filled with air instead of specialised gases. - Multi-chambered pvc windows are still being marketed as a tech innovation in some places in the US, while these are bog standard bottom line products even in the Baltic states. - Try and ask your average window installer about air tightness seals and blower door tests. [0] https://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/ng_pri_sum_a_EPG0_PRS_DMcf_m.htm https://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/ng_pri_sum_a_EPG0_PRS_DMcf_m.htm [1] https://www.milieucentraal.nl/energie-besparen/inzicht-in-je-energierekening/energierekening/ https://www.milieucentraal.nl/energie-besparen/inzicht-in-je...
- Scoundreller 5y ago
  If the US depended on something from Russia, I'm sure they'd be huge on conserving it too. I get NL currently exports more than it imports, it still means everyone else will pay a premium for EU-sourced gas, or wants it there as their supply.
  - hef19898 5y ago
    Not that Europe ever had an issue with Russian gas deliveries, or Soviet ones back during the Cold War. Ever. Ukraine is different in that regard. And that has nothing to do with energy saving for stuff like heating.
    - manmal 5y ago
      There was a gas scare a few years back. I don’t remember the specifics, but essentially Russia threatened parts of Europe to go without gas for a while.