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The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

419 points by 2939223 5y ago

msisdead 5y ago
I hope your comment is not removed here but I want to ask you something- do you support 4 year kids being taught "death to Israel"? Let's see whose comment gets flagged first.
- dang 5y ago
  Please don't take HN threads straight into nationalistic flamewar hell, regardless of what site of what battle you happen to be on. That is emphatically not what this site is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - ljasdas 5y ago
    Doesn't the same apply to this [1] comment? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27645772 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27645772
  - msisdead 5y ago
    Except it's easy for you to do a cliched "omg it is Nationalist flamewar" but essentially end up proving my point. Palestinians have no high ground here. You have silenced me for saying what is a fact. Dang you are a tool.
valparaiso 5y ago
Some questions from non-american from Eastern Europe: 1. Why Palestinians celebrated 9/11 attacks on civilians 2. Why Palestinians teach to kill Israelis from the kindergarten 3. Why Palestinians support ISIS and generally jihadists who behead kids/women/elderly people
- dang 5y ago
  Please don't take HN threads directly into nationalistic/religious/racial flamewar hell. That's exactly the opposite of what this site is for—regardless of how difficult the topic is. A topic being difficult just not justify setting it immediately on fire. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: please stop posting ideological/etc. flamewar comments to HN generally. You've done it repeatedly, and we ban that sort of account.
  - aaronchall 5y ago
    He raises fair points on this highly controversial subject. If we're to give this matter a fair hearing, we need to put all the relevant facts on the table. Maybe there was a nicer way for him to put these facts, but that doesn't invalidate them.
    - dang 5y ago
      Those aren't "fair points", they're garden-variety flamewar talking points that cross directly into slurs. This is not a hard call.
      - aaronchall 5y ago
        This topic is flamewar fuel - to leave out the talking points makes this a one-sided flame-war. Perhaps it is best not to have this discussion here. It flatters neither sides' participants.
        dang 5y ago
        I've addressed that in numerous comments in this thread, for example this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27646204 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27646204. If you look at the past explanations linked from there, you should find that they cover it. If not, let me know and I'll try to answer. The short version is (1) some stories are on topic for HN even though they have political overlap; (2) users still need to follow the site guidelines in such threads—in fact more so ("Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."); and (3) that very much includes not going into flamewar, let alone repeating flamewar tropes. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
tiku 5y ago
"For months, the 23-year-old el-Kurd twins had become the faces of Palestinian resistance in Sheikh Jarrah, broadcasting on Twitter and Instagram how they and seven other families refused to be forcibly expelled from their homes by Israeli settlers. " So there was not really a problem with social media then. I am hearing that recordings of violence got silenced, thats not weird. If i post a violent video of something, changes are that they are muted also.
- ComputerGuru 5y ago
  > So there was not really a problem then. There wasn’t a problem until there was. Just because they weren’t silenced until the issue gained global notoriety outside of the social media bubble doesn’t mean there is no problem.
- ljasdas 5y ago
  The issue is that the social media platforms specifically target silencing Palestinian content. Both Twitter and Facebook attributed it to technical bugs [1] [2] while they kept hiding the content. [1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/palestinian-facebook-posts-1.6052322 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/palestinian-facebook-... [2] https://soyacincau.com/2021/05/17/instagram-twitter-palestinian-deleted-posts-content-moderation/ https://soyacincau.com/2021/05/17/instagram-twitter-palestin...
  - tiku 5y ago
    Well they say automated systems did it, could be. Especially if the social media teams or other supports from Israel are constantly reporting (violent) content, then that content would be flagged/deleted etc.
    - ljasdas 5y ago
      Strangely, only Palestinian voices get silenced...
  - mikevm 5y ago
    Why are you posting from newly generated anonymous accounts you cowards?
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bronzeage 5y ago
It's not apartheid because Palestinians are not the majority. Sheikh Jarrah was bought by Jews before the 48s war and judges simply enforce the owners right to their own properties. There's no rule saying if you happen to build on someone else's land you get to keep it. Jerusalem Arabs get Israeli citizenship and all the rights derived from it. They just don't get the right to incite for violence as they have shown again and again it leads to terrorism. These Arabs who cry about being a victim have more rights than any Arabs in neighboring countries, where they aren't even allowed to walk outside as a woman without head covering, and speaking up against the regime is a capital offense.
cupofcoffee 5y ago
shhhhhhh
ljasdas 5y ago
Not sure why HN moderation changed the original title, which was "I am Palestinian. Here’s how Israel silences us on social media." to its current form.
- 2939223 5y ago
  Demonisation of Israel cannot be tolerated. Very telling.
  - dang 5y ago
    > very telling This is the sort of internet cheap shot that passionate partisans come up with. If you multiply all the moderation actions you agree with by 0% and all the ones you disagree with by 100%, yes, you're going to end up with quite a picture of bias. But it's a picture you've generated yourself by weighting the variables that way. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20dislike%20notice&sort=byDate&type=story&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=%22false%20feelings%20of%20generality%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... For example, I specifically turned off the flags on this submission. That's a moderation action you presumably support, since you submitted it. But you overlook that, while a title edit is "very telling". Meanwhile there's someone on the opposite side of the question who's weighting the same two actions in the opposite way and coming up with the opposite conclusion, which they no doubt also consider "very telling". More here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27646015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27646015.
- dang 5y ago
  I changed it the same way we change every such title which relies on linkbait tropes (which is what "I am $X. Here's how $Y" is). Linkbait tropes make HN threads worse. Editing them is standard moderation practice (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20linkbait&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...), and is also in the site guidelines ("Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize." - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). I also took care to use representative language from the article itself, describing what it is about. That's also standard moderation practice: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20%22representative%20language%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que.... Whenever we do any moderation on any divisive topic there's a strong tendency to leap to the conclusion that it signifies some political agenda, secret opposition to one side, secret support for the other, and so on. I understand that that's how the internet works. But it's deeply untrue. We're simply doing what we always do, as even-handedly as we're able. Unfortunately, to the extent that one is even-handed (and I'm not saying we do that perfectly, just to an extent), passionate partisans on every side of every divisive topic end up feeling like the mods are secretly against them. Why? Because by definition even-handedness means they all have some data points to object to, and that's all they need to jump to such conclusions (actually, even just one data point, or maybe two, is enough to produce this conclusion). There doesn't seem to be any way around that, much as I wish there were. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
underseacables 5y ago
I do hope the rockets stop falling on Israel so there can be peace.
- tiku 5y ago
  If only they used all that money to build up instead of down..
- luffapi 5y ago
  Peace is not possible on occupied land or in an apartheid state.
  - mikevm 5y ago
    Please prove that Israel is an Apartheid state, having Israeli Arabs serving in Parliament, as chief justices, chiefs of Police and more? I guess you Leftists can now pretty much just change the meaning of any word to mean whatever fits your narrative.
  - wizzwizz4 5y ago
    Technically, it is (in some circumstances): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_independence_movement#First_non-co-operation_movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_independence_movement#F...
    - crooked-v 5y ago
      Those circumstances are pretty unlike these ones, though, in that they involved (among other things) the UK being badly over-strained in every possible way in the aftermath of WW2, India being large enough and relatively untouched enough from WW2 to be increasingly ungovernable, and an independent India being little to no threat to the UK despite those first two factors.
- crooked-v 5y ago
  Peace is unlikely as long as settlers continue to claim Palestinean land and force them out of their own homes, considering what an obvious mockery this makes of any kind of negotiations even for those Palestineans who do actively want peace.
werber 5y ago
As an American Jew who grew up with a distorted and racist world view in regard to Palestine this just feels like history repeating itself. The troubles that face Israelis have always been amplified over those of Palestinians in my experience. That control of the narrative led me to be actively racist for most of my life while thinking I was not and also morally superior. This kind of censorship has a body count, and it lets war crimes happen in clear view while the on lookers think they are doing the right thing.
- DoctorNick 5y ago
  Americans are more prone to this kind of thing because they're already used to overriding settler-colonial propaganda influencing their mindset; Zionist propaganda is just another flavor.
  - slipframe 5y ago
    Lots of countries have similar sorts of histories I think; while I'm sure what you say is part of the equation, I think it doesn't fully explain why Americans are much more likely to support Israel than people in other countries (for instance, Australia.) I think another piece of this puzzle is the popularity of Evangelical Christianity in America, particularly Christian Zionism and the belief that the state of Israel is a necessary precondition for the return of their Messiah. That's the sort of rhetoric I was raised with anyway.
    - Bayart 5y ago
      It's rooted in British Israelism [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Israelism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Israelism
      - joecool1029 5y ago
        That's an absolutely wild read. I've never heard of this before today, thanks.
  - 5y ago
azifali 5y ago
As a progressive Muslim - I believe both Israel and Palestine have the right to exist, and thrive. Unfortunately, it looks like the state of Israel has now become a needless oppressor and are content building an apartheid state without learning from the past.
- notsureaboutpg 5y ago
  What does being a "progressive" Muslim have to do with it? Also, do you mean you are affiliated with Muslims for Progressive Values? Otherwise I don't know what makes you "progressive". Do you not believe the Quran is the word of God or something?
- rayiner 5y ago
  As a conservative former Muslim: As long as Palestinians chant “from the river to the sea” and tolerate Hamas any talk about a two state solution is a joke. By not rejecting Hamas, Palestinians make themselves a military problem rather than a civil rights issue. You don’t give civil rights to people who are military threat. This isn’t a point about morality, but the simple reality of nations protecting themselves. If you don’t have military superiority then scrupulous non-violence is the only alternative.
  - crooked-v 5y ago
    Unchecked illegal settlement makes anti-Israeli sentiment inevitable. If the obvious outcome of playing by the rules is losing all their land and livelihood anyway, people won't play by the rules.
  - Udik 5y ago
    > the simple reality of nations protecting themselves Israel is stealing from others (this is an established fact), its victims react, so Israel "protects itself" against that reaction. Are you ok with this? Do you think that robbers have a right to protect themselves from their victims?
  - let_me_ask_this 5y ago
    The problem with peaceful protest is that it can only work if there is very strong international pressure to stop Israel, because they most definitely won't stop by themselves. The problem with expecting any international pressure, is that America vetos any such event, and Israel work really hard to make sure they always have the backing of all the countries that matter. In any case, Hamas's existence is completely orthogonal to the reason for Israel's aggression. They want more land and less Palestinians on it.
buran77 5y ago
> One of the charges brought against them was that “their nationalistic sentiment” posed a threat to “state security.” Reprehensible. But when you have powerful enough friends it turns out it's perfectly acceptable. There will always be someone else out there to serve as the "greater evil" cover and this is a great disservice to the world, as crimes against humanity are just swept under the rug. > Social media, our last remaining avenue for exposing the violence, was aiding and abetting Israeli crimes against us. Our documentation and testimonies of the violence we faced from Israeli settlers were shut down by tech companies far from Palestine. This included videos of mobs chasing Palestinians while screaming “Death to Arabs;” Israeli police firing live ammunition at unarmed Palestinians; the carpet bombing of Gaza; As long as western social media is almost entirely under US control one has to accept that everything there will dance to the tune made by and for the US and their closest interests. That much touted freedom of speech extends only as far as it isn't an inconvenience or embarrassment for those with the strings and levers. Carpet bombing civilians doesn't send a good message to be associated with the US by alliance.
- RhodoGSA 5y ago
  It's much more a of an oligarchy than the social media company's being controlled by the US. The Irony of Democracy is a book that goes into detail on this.
golergka 5y ago
Even this comment section very clearly shows who and what is really being silenced.
- cupofcoffee 5y ago
  shhhh stop crying
Animats 5y ago
A few years ago, criticism of Israel's policies started being called anti-antisemitism.[1] That made it OK to censor criticism of Israel. Israel's policies got more divisive under 12 years of Netanyahu, and there's more reason to be critical of them. Those two trends are in collision. [1] https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/criticism-of-israel-is-anti-semitism-really/ https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/criticism-of-israel-is-anti-...
- TX0098812 5y ago
  > A few years ago, criticism of Israel's policies started being called anti-antisemitism It is often the case. Take a peek anywhere neo-nazis gather. As far as I can tell, they've realized that while they're getting nowhere attacking Jews, they are able to effectively attack the Jewish state. It works, I think, because it's a David and Goliath type story and everyone tends to root for the underdog (even when it's trying its best to murder random civilians).
- slibhb 5y ago
  > A few years ago, criticism of Israel's policies started being called anti-antisemitism I'm not sure if that's new. And while it's certainly true that you can criticize Israel without being an antisemite, it's also true that a lot of people can't seem to thread that particular needle.
  - esens 5y ago
    The needle is intended to be incredibly hard to thread. That is the point.
tiku 5y ago
Funny to see how a lot of comments get silenced/flagged here. In a topic about social media silencing. The irony. This is how it works on all social media, people are offended and they report it.
ardit33 5y ago
Wow... this comment section is proving the point of the article. This was posted last night as well and got flagged right away. The discussion is important as it is about Tech platforms deciding to side with Israel and silencing Palestinians in social media and they have no recourse. We have had plenty of discussions here about social media censorship (especially during covid and trump era). This is a valid discussion as well as it is about human rights. If we can talk and about Indian and Nigerian, or Chinese censorship against the Uyghurs and the Tiananmen square masacre, then we can talk about Israeli censorship war against the Palestinians as well. Also Computer Ethics is part of the Computer Science curriculum in most colleges, and part of technology. We are not going to solve this conflict here, but we should know where censorship in tech is being used to suppress the voice of a whole population. I was born in a former communist country (1980, Albania), and censorship and media control was used to suppress the voice of the people in order to prop up a brutal regime. "In addition to using social media to incriminate Palestinians, Israel has also used it to muzzle us. In 2016, Israel’s then-Justice Minister Ayelet Shaked boasted that, in the previous four-month period, Facebook had complied with 95% of Israel’s requests to remove Palestinian content on the vague basis of “incitement.” A year later, Israel tried to push the “Facebook Bill” through the Knesset, legislation which would force Facebook to remove any content designated as “incitement.” "
- yuvalr1 5y ago
  This comment section really proves what is being silenced. Just look for the voices that are not being represented here.
bsd44 5y ago
People seem to believe that if you bury your head in the sand, nobody can see you. Just because you don't talk about something openly it does not imply that the discussion doesn't happen at all. It happens in closed circles which just fuels the hatred towards the censorship and those who enforce it. You can't forbid people to think and have opinions. What is the point of flagging this entry? You either introduce a policy that forbids posting political issues on HN entirely or you don't, selection makes you a hypocrite.
- dang 5y ago
  I'm not sure I follow this comment, but this bit is definitely wrong: > You either introduce a policy that forbids posting political issues on HN entirely or you don't I've explained at length why neither of those approaches is viable on HN. Here are some of those past explanations: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21607844 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21607844 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22902490 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22902490 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17014869 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17014869 https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=political%20overlap%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so.... If anyone has a question that hasn't been answered there, I'd like to know what it is, and if you know a better way for HN to relate to political topics while fulfilling its mandate, I'd definitely like to know what it is. Just please familiarize yourself with the past explanations first, because if it's something simple like "just ban politics" or "just allow everything", I've answered many times already why it won't work.
mcguire 5y ago
Please notice: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act.IL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act.IL
- Udik 5y ago
  > Act.IL is a Social networking service launched in June 2017 that can be used via a mobile app on mobile devices running iOS or Android.[1] It is used by supporters of Israel to oppose "anti-Israel content" such as boycott, divestment and sanctions movement (BDS).[2][3][4]
nextstep 5y ago
Jillian C. York’s book “Silicon Values” has a chapter about this “electronic apartheid”. For all of the big social media companies, the content moderation for both Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories is handled by the Israeli office. https://www.versobooks.com/books/3772-silicon-values https://www.versobooks.com/books/3772-silicon-values
deadite 5y ago
>Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok, among others, have more control over our voices than we did. What's the story here? These platforms and most social media/news outlets are either owned by Jews or have deep financially vested interests from Jewish VCs (yes, including TikTok). Of course you're going to be silenced on their platforms. Anyone getting in a kerfuffle that this is a topic point that can't be brought up isn't doing themselves any favors.
- crooked-v 5y ago
  Please don't conflate "Jews in general" with "Israeli Jews" or "the Israeli government". These three things are not inherently the same.
  - deadite 5y ago
    I never said they were inherently the same. I said the websites are owned or financially backed by Jews (meaning, they are owned by them) and no one should be surprised that they end up being against Palestine, or pro-Israel.
  - dang 5y ago
    "Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead." a.k.a. please don't feed the trolls https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- dang 5y ago
  You can't do this here. I've banned this account. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - deadite2 5y ago
    You banned my account for highlighting the fact that social media is majority controlled by Jewish (and therefore more than likely Israeli) interests. I'm not sure exactly what I said that warranted being banned and shown the guidelines. If you think I was trolling - no, I was pointing out the bloody obvious that the rest of the posters here don't want to bring to light.
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andyxor 5y ago
Terrorist propaganda is not welcomed on social media, nothing new there.
golemiprague 5y ago
I see much more Arab propaganda on social media, a lot of it is racist and vile, just because of the sheer numbers of Muslims hating Israel comparing to the Jews who support it. Only tiny amount of it is blocked and many times Jews supporting Israel are blocked on much less significant "charges" just because so many Muslims flag those posts, many times it is an automatic ban. This article is a joke and misrepresenting what is actually happening on social media these days. There are about a billion Muslims hammering their views against Israel, do you really think Israel can block anything in any effective way?
contingencies 5y ago
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - Einstein ... via https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup
- vixen99 5y ago
  All depends on what is meant by the word which all-too-often denotes an all-inclusive label for a cluster of characteristics chosen according to the political inclination of the user. Wikipedia says "Nationalism holds that each nation should govern itself, free from outside interference (self-determination), that a nation is a natural and ideal basis for a polity and that the nation is the only rightful source of political power (popular sovereignty)". Which other particular source of political power would you suggest for the US or any other country ?
  - contingencies 5y ago
    How about "We're all going to die if we don't get along and solve the current crises?"
poisonarena 5y ago
This is literal propaganda on hackernews. Sad to see it here.
- approxim8ion 5y ago
  Anything political that I don't like is propaganda!
aaronchall 5y ago
I know many users have flagged this because moderator, dang, has turned off the flags for this post. I'm sure it would be off the front page by now if he had not. I also know that after some period of relative peace, the Palestinian people allowed over (conservatively) 3,000 rockets to be fired on Israel by their militias, injuring over (conservatively) 100 and killing 10 (as reported by the Associated Press). To me this questions the entire framing of the issues involved. Is this post wartime propaganda?
- poisonarena 5y ago
  More than 4000 rockets, about a third of which failed and crashed in Gaza, killing and injuring their own populace. And yes, this is post wartime propaganda.
- user982 5y ago
  > I also know that after some period of relative peace, the Palestinian people allowed over (conservatively) 3,000 rockets to be fired on Israel by their militias, injuring over (conservatively) 100 and killing 10 (as reported by the Associated Press). Why, after some period of relative peace, did the Palestinian people suddenly "allow" rockets to be fired on Israel? Were there any proximate causes which they were responding to? How many missiles did the Israeli people allow to be fired into Palestine? How many Palestinians were injured (conservatively)? How many Palestinians killed?
  - RhodoGSA 5y ago
    Hamas controls Palestine, which is deemed a terrorist organization by half the western world. Also, the US got a pretty good test of it's iron dome system it lent to israel. As long as Hamas runs Palestine, this conflict will never end until the complete utter destruction of Palestine is reached. Palestine needs to ditch their leaders.
  - rudnevr 5y ago
    The major reason was the elections in the West Bank, which threatened to shake Fatah domination there, and a change in US policy (Biden expected to be softer on Arabs than Trump). The violence propaganda started on TikTok weeks before the conflict. The Hamas's goal once in several years to exercise power, get international intention and get more funds to live. That's how they do many years already.
fsh 5y ago
I have some Arab friends who are very active on social media. It doesn't surprise me that the sheer volume of their political posts triggers all kinds of anti-spam mechanisms. I have also occasionally tried researching the background of the claims made in some of the posts. Most were highly misleading or completely made up. So Facebook's campaign against misinformation might have something to do with the described removals. That being said, I still see tons of posts every day and don't have the impression that the platforms are hiding many of them. Even open calls for violence usually stay up. The issue of alleged censorship aside, I am not convinced that this type of social media activism is beneficial for society. It would be great to have an open discussion on the many issues in the Middle East, but this doesn't really happen there. Most posts are straight up propaganda and and it appears to be taboo among Arabs on social media to even consider the Israeli point of view. Like the author of TFA, they even reject the term "conflict" because it might be thought to imply that both Israelis and Palestinians can have legitimate interests.
dang_is_erect4 5y ago
Calm your vagina big guy…
theshrike79 5y ago
I'm 100% convinced the Israel-Palestine issue won't get solved ever. Barring actual divine intervention and nuclear war, we'll solve global warming before those two can live together in peace.
DavidPiper 5y ago
For people with almost (or absolutely) no contextual exposure to this conflict, can people recommend good sources to understand more about it and its history? My personal preference would be for book sources, and if it's a case of "no unbiased account", then book sources from both sides of the conflict.
- x4e 5y ago
  I learnt about the conflict at school using this textbook: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Edexcel-International-History-Conflict-Crisis/dp/0435185411 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Edexcel-International-History-Confl... I found it quite good, however looking it up now I see there have been complaints about it: https://5pillarsuk.com/2020/09/10/middle-east-history-textbook-withdrawn-after-complaints-by-pro-israel-activists/ https://5pillarsuk.com/2020/09/10/middle-east-history-textbo... I will say my even though my History teacher taught it without any visible bias, I got the impression she was more on the Palestinian side (as was most of my class).
kdjsbdb 5y ago
I'm always up for a good Pallywood video lol
dang_is_erect4 5y ago
“Hacker news” is a dumpster fire, kid…
kdjsbdb 5y ago
Come on show me some pallywood links please!
jgb1984 5y ago
Israel is an apartheid state. Stealing land and declaring a "jewish state" is no less criminal or insane than what isis / islamic state tried to do. Anti-zionism is not equal to anti-semitism. Just like I can criticize the USA without hating Americans, or criticize Iran without discriminating against muslims.
- js212 5y ago
  Name me one land in all of history that has not been stolen or conquered? Also, could LGTBQ individuals live in Islamic State (or even Gaza or the West Bank!)? Btw, you made claims of apartheid but offered 0 arguments in support of your position.
  - rudnevr 5y ago
    "Israel is apartheid state" is a very old thesis which the left hoping to apply to Israel after their South Africa success. There's nothing in support of it in terms of law, though. It doesn't even work as libel anymore. Just a marker phrase for antisemitism.

419 points by 2939223 5y ago

I hope your comment is not removed here but I want to ask you something- do you support 4 year kids being taught "death to Israel"? Let's see whose comment gets flagged first.

dang 5y ago
Please don't take HN threads straight into nationalistic flamewar hell, regardless of what site of what battle you happen to be on. That is emphatically not what this site is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- ljasdas 5y ago
  Doesn't the same apply to this [1] comment? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27645772 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27645772
- msisdead 5y ago
  Except it's easy for you to do a cliched "omg it is Nationalist flamewar" but essentially end up proving my point. Palestinians have no high ground here. You have silenced me for saying what is a fact. Dang you are a tool.

valparaiso 5y ago

Some questions from non-american from Eastern Europe: 1. Why Palestinians celebrated 9/11 attacks on civilians 2. Why Palestinians teach to kill Israelis from the kindergarten 3. Why Palestinians support ISIS and generally jihadists who behead kids/women/elderly people

dang 5y ago
Please don't take HN threads directly into nationalistic/religious/racial flamewar hell. That's exactly the opposite of what this site is for—regardless of how difficult the topic is. A topic being difficult just not justify setting it immediately on fire. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: please stop posting ideological/etc. flamewar comments to HN generally. You've done it repeatedly, and we ban that sort of account.
- aaronchall 5y ago
  He raises fair points on this highly controversial subject. If we're to give this matter a fair hearing, we need to put all the relevant facts on the table. Maybe there was a nicer way for him to put these facts, but that doesn't invalidate them.
  - dang 5y ago
    Those aren't "fair points", they're garden-variety flamewar talking points that cross directly into slurs. This is not a hard call.
    - aaronchall 5y ago
      This topic is flamewar fuel - to leave out the talking points makes this a one-sided flame-war. Perhaps it is best not to have this discussion here. It flatters neither sides' participants.
      - dang 5y ago
        I've addressed that in numerous comments in this thread, for example this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27646204 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27646204. If you look at the past explanations linked from there, you should find that they cover it. If not, let me know and I'll try to answer. The short version is (1) some stories are on topic for HN even though they have political overlap; (2) users still need to follow the site guidelines in such threads—in fact more so ("Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."); and (3) that very much includes not going into flamewar, let alone repeating flamewar tropes. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

tiku 5y ago

"For months, the 23-year-old el-Kurd twins had become the faces of Palestinian resistance in Sheikh Jarrah, broadcasting on Twitter and Instagram how they and seven other families refused to be forcibly expelled from their homes by Israeli settlers. " So there was not really a problem with social media then. I am hearing that recordings of violence got silenced, thats not weird. If i post a violent video of something, changes are that they are muted also.

ComputerGuru 5y ago
> So there was not really a problem then. There wasn’t a problem until there was. Just because they weren’t silenced until the issue gained global notoriety outside of the social media bubble doesn’t mean there is no problem.
ljasdas 5y ago
The issue is that the social media platforms specifically target silencing Palestinian content. Both Twitter and Facebook attributed it to technical bugs [1] [2] while they kept hiding the content. [1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/palestinian-facebook-posts-1.6052322 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/palestinian-facebook-... [2] https://soyacincau.com/2021/05/17/instagram-twitter-palestinian-deleted-posts-content-moderation/ https://soyacincau.com/2021/05/17/instagram-twitter-palestin...
- tiku 5y ago
  Well they say automated systems did it, could be. Especially if the social media teams or other supports from Israel are constantly reporting (violent) content, then that content would be flagged/deleted etc.
  - ljasdas 5y ago
    Strangely, only Palestinian voices get silenced...
- mikevm 5y ago
  Why are you posting from newly generated anonymous accounts you cowards?

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bronzeage 5y ago

It's not apartheid because Palestinians are not the majority. Sheikh Jarrah was bought by Jews before the 48s war and judges simply enforce the owners right to their own properties. There's no rule saying if you happen to build on someone else's land you get to keep it. Jerusalem Arabs get Israeli citizenship and all the rights derived from it. They just don't get the right to incite for violence as they have shown again and again it leads to terrorism. These Arabs who cry about being a victim have more rights than any Arabs in neighboring countries, where they aren't even allowed to walk outside as a woman without head covering, and speaking up against the regime is a capital offense.

cupofcoffee 5y ago

shhhhhhh

ljasdas 5y ago

Not sure why HN moderation changed the original title, which was "I am Palestinian. Here’s how Israel silences us on social media." to its current form.

2939223 5y ago
Demonisation of Israel cannot be tolerated. Very telling.
- dang 5y ago
  > very telling This is the sort of internet cheap shot that passionate partisans come up with. If you multiply all the moderation actions you agree with by 0% and all the ones you disagree with by 100%, yes, you're going to end up with quite a picture of bias. But it's a picture you've generated yourself by weighting the variables that way. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20dislike%20notice&sort=byDate&type=story&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=%22false%20feelings%20of%20generality%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... For example, I specifically turned off the flags on this submission. That's a moderation action you presumably support, since you submitted it. But you overlook that, while a title edit is "very telling". Meanwhile there's someone on the opposite side of the question who's weighting the same two actions in the opposite way and coming up with the opposite conclusion, which they no doubt also consider "very telling". More here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27646015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27646015.
dang 5y ago
I changed it the same way we change every such title which relies on linkbait tropes (which is what "I am $X. Here's how $Y" is). Linkbait tropes make HN threads worse. Editing them is standard moderation practice (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20linkbait&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...), and is also in the site guidelines ("Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize." - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). I also took care to use representative language from the article itself, describing what it is about. That's also standard moderation practice: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20%22representative%20language%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que.... Whenever we do any moderation on any divisive topic there's a strong tendency to leap to the conclusion that it signifies some political agenda, secret opposition to one side, secret support for the other, and so on. I understand that that's how the internet works. But it's deeply untrue. We're simply doing what we always do, as even-handedly as we're able. Unfortunately, to the extent that one is even-handed (and I'm not saying we do that perfectly, just to an extent), passionate partisans on every side of every divisive topic end up feeling like the mods are secretly against them. Why? Because by definition even-handedness means they all have some data points to object to, and that's all they need to jump to such conclusions (actually, even just one data point, or maybe two, is enough to produce this conclusion). There doesn't seem to be any way around that, much as I wish there were. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

underseacables 5y ago

I do hope the rockets stop falling on Israel so there can be peace.

tiku 5y ago
If only they used all that money to build up instead of down..
luffapi 5y ago
Peace is not possible on occupied land or in an apartheid state.
- mikevm 5y ago
  Please prove that Israel is an Apartheid state, having Israeli Arabs serving in Parliament, as chief justices, chiefs of Police and more? I guess you Leftists can now pretty much just change the meaning of any word to mean whatever fits your narrative.
- wizzwizz4 5y ago
  Technically, it is (in some circumstances): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_independence_movement#First_non-co-operation_movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_independence_movement#F...
  - crooked-v 5y ago
    Those circumstances are pretty unlike these ones, though, in that they involved (among other things) the UK being badly over-strained in every possible way in the aftermath of WW2, India being large enough and relatively untouched enough from WW2 to be increasingly ungovernable, and an independent India being little to no threat to the UK despite those first two factors.
crooked-v 5y ago
Peace is unlikely as long as settlers continue to claim Palestinean land and force them out of their own homes, considering what an obvious mockery this makes of any kind of negotiations even for those Palestineans who do actively want peace.

werber 5y ago

As an American Jew who grew up with a distorted and racist world view in regard to Palestine this just feels like history repeating itself. The troubles that face Israelis have always been amplified over those of Palestinians in my experience. That control of the narrative led me to be actively racist for most of my life while thinking I was not and also morally superior. This kind of censorship has a body count, and it lets war crimes happen in clear view while the on lookers think they are doing the right thing.

DoctorNick 5y ago
Americans are more prone to this kind of thing because they're already used to overriding settler-colonial propaganda influencing their mindset; Zionist propaganda is just another flavor.
- slipframe 5y ago
  Lots of countries have similar sorts of histories I think; while I'm sure what you say is part of the equation, I think it doesn't fully explain why Americans are much more likely to support Israel than people in other countries (for instance, Australia.) I think another piece of this puzzle is the popularity of Evangelical Christianity in America, particularly Christian Zionism and the belief that the state of Israel is a necessary precondition for the return of their Messiah. That's the sort of rhetoric I was raised with anyway.
  - Bayart 5y ago
    It's rooted in British Israelism [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Israelism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Israelism
    - joecool1029 5y ago
      That's an absolutely wild read. I've never heard of this before today, thanks.
- 5y ago

azifali 5y ago

As a progressive Muslim - I believe both Israel and Palestine have the right to exist, and thrive. Unfortunately, it looks like the state of Israel has now become a needless oppressor and are content building an apartheid state without learning from the past.

notsureaboutpg 5y ago
What does being a "progressive" Muslim have to do with it? Also, do you mean you are affiliated with Muslims for Progressive Values? Otherwise I don't know what makes you "progressive". Do you not believe the Quran is the word of God or something?
rayiner 5y ago
As a conservative former Muslim: As long as Palestinians chant “from the river to the sea” and tolerate Hamas any talk about a two state solution is a joke. By not rejecting Hamas, Palestinians make themselves a military problem rather than a civil rights issue. You don’t give civil rights to people who are military threat. This isn’t a point about morality, but the simple reality of nations protecting themselves. If you don’t have military superiority then scrupulous non-violence is the only alternative.
- crooked-v 5y ago
  Unchecked illegal settlement makes anti-Israeli sentiment inevitable. If the obvious outcome of playing by the rules is losing all their land and livelihood anyway, people won't play by the rules.
- Udik 5y ago
  > the simple reality of nations protecting themselves Israel is stealing from others (this is an established fact), its victims react, so Israel "protects itself" against that reaction. Are you ok with this? Do you think that robbers have a right to protect themselves from their victims?
- let_me_ask_this 5y ago
  The problem with peaceful protest is that it can only work if there is very strong international pressure to stop Israel, because they most definitely won't stop by themselves. The problem with expecting any international pressure, is that America vetos any such event, and Israel work really hard to make sure they always have the backing of all the countries that matter. In any case, Hamas's existence is completely orthogonal to the reason for Israel's aggression. They want more land and less Palestinians on it.

buran77 5y ago

> One of the charges brought against them was that “their nationalistic sentiment” posed a threat to “state security.” Reprehensible. But when you have powerful enough friends it turns out it's perfectly acceptable. There will always be someone else out there to serve as the "greater evil" cover and this is a great disservice to the world, as crimes against humanity are just swept under the rug. > Social media, our last remaining avenue for exposing the violence, was aiding and abetting Israeli crimes against us. Our documentation and testimonies of the violence we faced from Israeli settlers were shut down by tech companies far from Palestine. This included videos of mobs chasing Palestinians while screaming “Death to Arabs;” Israeli police firing live ammunition at unarmed Palestinians; the carpet bombing of Gaza; As long as western social media is almost entirely under US control one has to accept that everything there will dance to the tune made by and for the US and their closest interests. That much touted freedom of speech extends only as far as it isn't an inconvenience or embarrassment for those with the strings and levers. Carpet bombing civilians doesn't send a good message to be associated with the US by alliance.

RhodoGSA 5y ago
It's much more a of an oligarchy than the social media company's being controlled by the US. The Irony of Democracy is a book that goes into detail on this.

golergka 5y ago

Even this comment section very clearly shows who and what is really being silenced.

cupofcoffee 5y ago
shhhh stop crying

Animats 5y ago

A few years ago, criticism of Israel's policies started being called anti-antisemitism.[1] That made it OK to censor criticism of Israel. Israel's policies got more divisive under 12 years of Netanyahu, and there's more reason to be critical of them. Those two trends are in collision. [1] https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/criticism-of-israel-is-anti-semitism-really/ https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/criticism-of-israel-is-anti-...

TX0098812 5y ago
> A few years ago, criticism of Israel's policies started being called anti-antisemitism It is often the case. Take a peek anywhere neo-nazis gather. As far as I can tell, they've realized that while they're getting nowhere attacking Jews, they are able to effectively attack the Jewish state. It works, I think, because it's a David and Goliath type story and everyone tends to root for the underdog (even when it's trying its best to murder random civilians).
slibhb 5y ago
> A few years ago, criticism of Israel's policies started being called anti-antisemitism I'm not sure if that's new. And while it's certainly true that you can criticize Israel without being an antisemite, it's also true that a lot of people can't seem to thread that particular needle.
- esens 5y ago
  The needle is intended to be incredibly hard to thread. That is the point.

tiku 5y ago

Funny to see how a lot of comments get silenced/flagged here. In a topic about social media silencing. The irony. This is how it works on all social media, people are offended and they report it.

ardit33 5y ago

Wow... this comment section is proving the point of the article. This was posted last night as well and got flagged right away. The discussion is important as it is about Tech platforms deciding to side with Israel and silencing Palestinians in social media and they have no recourse. We have had plenty of discussions here about social media censorship (especially during covid and trump era). This is a valid discussion as well as it is about human rights. If we can talk and about Indian and Nigerian, or Chinese censorship against the Uyghurs and the Tiananmen square masacre, then we can talk about Israeli censorship war against the Palestinians as well. Also Computer Ethics is part of the Computer Science curriculum in most colleges, and part of technology. We are not going to solve this conflict here, but we should know where censorship in tech is being used to suppress the voice of a whole population. I was born in a former communist country (1980, Albania), and censorship and media control was used to suppress the voice of the people in order to prop up a brutal regime. "In addition to using social media to incriminate Palestinians, Israel has also used it to muzzle us. In 2016, Israel’s then-Justice Minister Ayelet Shaked boasted that, in the previous four-month period, Facebook had complied with 95% of Israel’s requests to remove Palestinian content on the vague basis of “incitement.” A year later, Israel tried to push the “Facebook Bill” through the Knesset, legislation which would force Facebook to remove any content designated as “incitement.” "

yuvalr1 5y ago
This comment section really proves what is being silenced. Just look for the voices that are not being represented here.

bsd44 5y ago

People seem to believe that if you bury your head in the sand, nobody can see you. Just because you don't talk about something openly it does not imply that the discussion doesn't happen at all. It happens in closed circles which just fuels the hatred towards the censorship and those who enforce it. You can't forbid people to think and have opinions. What is the point of flagging this entry? You either introduce a policy that forbids posting political issues on HN entirely or you don't, selection makes you a hypocrite.

dang 5y ago
I'm not sure I follow this comment, but this bit is definitely wrong: > You either introduce a policy that forbids posting political issues on HN entirely or you don't I've explained at length why neither of those approaches is viable on HN. Here are some of those past explanations: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21607844 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21607844 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22902490 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22902490 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17014869 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17014869 https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=political%20overlap%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so.... If anyone has a question that hasn't been answered there, I'd like to know what it is, and if you know a better way for HN to relate to political topics while fulfilling its mandate, I'd definitely like to know what it is. Just please familiarize yourself with the past explanations first, because if it's something simple like "just ban politics" or "just allow everything", I've answered many times already why it won't work.

mcguire 5y ago

Please notice: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act.IL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act.IL

Udik 5y ago
> Act.IL is a Social networking service launched in June 2017 that can be used via a mobile app on mobile devices running iOS or Android.[1] It is used by supporters of Israel to oppose "anti-Israel content" such as boycott, divestment and sanctions movement (BDS).[2][3][4]

nextstep 5y ago

Jillian C. York’s book “Silicon Values” has a chapter about this “electronic apartheid”. For all of the big social media companies, the content moderation for both Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories is handled by the Israeli office. https://www.versobooks.com/books/3772-silicon-values https://www.versobooks.com/books/3772-silicon-values

deadite 5y ago

>Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok, among others, have more control over our voices than we did. What's the story here? These platforms and most social media/news outlets are either owned by Jews or have deep financially vested interests from Jewish VCs (yes, including TikTok). Of course you're going to be silenced on their platforms. Anyone getting in a kerfuffle that this is a topic point that can't be brought up isn't doing themselves any favors.

crooked-v 5y ago
Please don't conflate "Jews in general" with "Israeli Jews" or "the Israeli government". These three things are not inherently the same.
- deadite 5y ago
  I never said they were inherently the same. I said the websites are owned or financially backed by Jews (meaning, they are owned by them) and no one should be surprised that they end up being against Palestine, or pro-Israel.
- dang 5y ago
  "Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead." a.k.a. please don't feed the trolls https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
dang 5y ago
You can't do this here. I've banned this account. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- deadite2 5y ago
  You banned my account for highlighting the fact that social media is majority controlled by Jewish (and therefore more than likely Israeli) interests. I'm not sure exactly what I said that warranted being banned and shown the guidelines. If you think I was trolling - no, I was pointing out the bloody obvious that the rest of the posters here don't want to bring to light.

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andyxor 5y ago

Terrorist propaganda is not welcomed on social media, nothing new there.

golemiprague 5y ago

I see much more Arab propaganda on social media, a lot of it is racist and vile, just because of the sheer numbers of Muslims hating Israel comparing to the Jews who support it. Only tiny amount of it is blocked and many times Jews supporting Israel are blocked on much less significant "charges" just because so many Muslims flag those posts, many times it is an automatic ban. This article is a joke and misrepresenting what is actually happening on social media these days. There are about a billion Muslims hammering their views against Israel, do you really think Israel can block anything in any effective way?

contingencies 5y ago

Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - Einstein ... via https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup

vixen99 5y ago
All depends on what is meant by the word which all-too-often denotes an all-inclusive label for a cluster of characteristics chosen according to the political inclination of the user. Wikipedia says "Nationalism holds that each nation should govern itself, free from outside interference (self-determination), that a nation is a natural and ideal basis for a polity and that the nation is the only rightful source of political power (popular sovereignty)". Which other particular source of political power would you suggest for the US or any other country ?
- contingencies 5y ago
  How about "We're all going to die if we don't get along and solve the current crises?"

poisonarena 5y ago

This is literal propaganda on hackernews. Sad to see it here.

approxim8ion 5y ago
Anything political that I don't like is propaganda!

aaronchall 5y ago

I know many users have flagged this because moderator, dang, has turned off the flags for this post. I'm sure it would be off the front page by now if he had not. I also know that after some period of relative peace, the Palestinian people allowed over (conservatively) 3,000 rockets to be fired on Israel by their militias, injuring over (conservatively) 100 and killing 10 (as reported by the Associated Press). To me this questions the entire framing of the issues involved. Is this post wartime propaganda?

poisonarena 5y ago
More than 4000 rockets, about a third of which failed and crashed in Gaza, killing and injuring their own populace. And yes, this is post wartime propaganda.
user982 5y ago
> I also know that after some period of relative peace, the Palestinian people allowed over (conservatively) 3,000 rockets to be fired on Israel by their militias, injuring over (conservatively) 100 and killing 10 (as reported by the Associated Press). Why, after some period of relative peace, did the Palestinian people suddenly "allow" rockets to be fired on Israel? Were there any proximate causes which they were responding to? How many missiles did the Israeli people allow to be fired into Palestine? How many Palestinians were injured (conservatively)? How many Palestinians killed?
- RhodoGSA 5y ago
  Hamas controls Palestine, which is deemed a terrorist organization by half the western world. Also, the US got a pretty good test of it's iron dome system it lent to israel. As long as Hamas runs Palestine, this conflict will never end until the complete utter destruction of Palestine is reached. Palestine needs to ditch their leaders.
- rudnevr 5y ago
  The major reason was the elections in the West Bank, which threatened to shake Fatah domination there, and a change in US policy (Biden expected to be softer on Arabs than Trump). The violence propaganda started on TikTok weeks before the conflict. The Hamas's goal once in several years to exercise power, get international intention and get more funds to live. That's how they do many years already.

fsh 5y ago

I have some Arab friends who are very active on social media. It doesn't surprise me that the sheer volume of their political posts triggers all kinds of anti-spam mechanisms. I have also occasionally tried researching the background of the claims made in some of the posts. Most were highly misleading or completely made up. So Facebook's campaign against misinformation might have something to do with the described removals. That being said, I still see tons of posts every day and don't have the impression that the platforms are hiding many of them. Even open calls for violence usually stay up. The issue of alleged censorship aside, I am not convinced that this type of social media activism is beneficial for society. It would be great to have an open discussion on the many issues in the Middle East, but this doesn't really happen there. Most posts are straight up propaganda and and it appears to be taboo among Arabs on social media to even consider the Israeli point of view. Like the author of TFA, they even reject the term "conflict" because it might be thought to imply that both Israelis and Palestinians can have legitimate interests.

dang_is_erect4 5y ago

Calm your vagina big guy…

theshrike79 5y ago

I'm 100% convinced the Israel-Palestine issue won't get solved ever. Barring actual divine intervention and nuclear war, we'll solve global warming before those two can live together in peace.

DavidPiper 5y ago

For people with almost (or absolutely) no contextual exposure to this conflict, can people recommend good sources to understand more about it and its history? My personal preference would be for book sources, and if it's a case of "no unbiased account", then book sources from both sides of the conflict.

x4e 5y ago
I learnt about the conflict at school using this textbook: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Edexcel-International-History-Conflict-Crisis/dp/0435185411 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Edexcel-International-History-Confl... I found it quite good, however looking it up now I see there have been complaints about it: https://5pillarsuk.com/2020/09/10/middle-east-history-textbook-withdrawn-after-complaints-by-pro-israel-activists/ https://5pillarsuk.com/2020/09/10/middle-east-history-textbo... I will say my even though my History teacher taught it without any visible bias, I got the impression she was more on the Palestinian side (as was most of my class).

kdjsbdb 5y ago

I'm always up for a good Pallywood video lol

dang_is_erect4 5y ago

“Hacker news” is a dumpster fire, kid…

kdjsbdb 5y ago

Come on show me some pallywood links please!

jgb1984 5y ago

Israel is an apartheid state. Stealing land and declaring a "jewish state" is no less criminal or insane than what isis / islamic state tried to do. Anti-zionism is not equal to anti-semitism. Just like I can criticize the USA without hating Americans, or criticize Iran without discriminating against muslims.

js212 5y ago
Name me one land in all of history that has not been stolen or conquered? Also, could LGTBQ individuals live in Islamic State (or even Gaza or the West Bank!)? Btw, you made claims of apartheid but offered 0 arguments in support of your position.
- rudnevr 5y ago
  "Israel is apartheid state" is a very old thesis which the left hoping to apply to Israel after their South Africa success. There's nothing in support of it in terms of law, though. It doesn't even work as libel anymore. Just a marker phrase for antisemitism.