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> There was a time when I was fairly sure that climate change would lead to the collapse of civilization, but there was no way I'd live to see it. Now I'm not s
by slibhb 5y ago
> There was a time when I was fairly sure that climate change would lead to the collapse of civilization, but there was no way I'd live to see it. Now I'm not so sure about the latter.
Even if climate change significantly affects our lives, why would it cause civilization to collapse? It seems just as plausible that adverse conditions will increase the necessity of civilization, of strong social bonds and mutal reliance.
It's very interesting to me that, when talking about climate change, we tend to assume everything is negative. Surely there are some upsides (the only one I ever hear about is Arctic shipping routes). But I think we have no good reason to be making claims like "civilization will collapse". This seems like millenarian thinking, people like the idea of living in the end times.
- toomuchtodo 5y agoCrop failures, extreme climate changes we cannot mitigate the effects of cost effectively (coastal infra and housing). We depend on things that grow (both plants and animals) to survive ourselves. I would not bet on this bringing people together, unless it’s the very well off (“the haves”) against those without who will be exposed to more suffering.
- slibhb 5y agoHow about huge swathes of land opening up in Canada, Greenland, and Siberia that have massive quantities of untapped natural resources? I'm telling you, we're going to roll with this thing. Bump in the road. But there's no point in arguing about it. When we all die and civilization hasn't collapsed, we'll all know I'm right.
- lisper 5y agoFor Greenland to become fertile its ice sheet would have to melt, and that will leave major cities underwater. And climate change is not going to magically stop once that happens. Greenland might be fertile for a little while, a few decades maybe. Then what?
- slibhb 5y agoCities aren't going to submerge overnight. The process is slow enough so that, if necessary, we will have plenty of time to adjust by moving inland, building dikes, and so on. When you're on your deathbed and civilization hasn't collapsed, I wonder if you'll think of this thread.
- lisper 5y agoLike I said above, I would like nothing better than to be wrong about this. In fact, I have never wished so desperately to be wrong about something as I have about this. So yes, if civilization outlives me I will definitely think of this thread. If, 10-20 years from now, there are world-wide food riots because of global crop failures and the entire western US is burning in one gigantic continent-wide forest fire, will you?
- slibhb 5y agoYes, if something like that happens, the people making dire predictions would have been right.
- jghhnbcfg 5y agoGood lord, climate fatalism at its finest folks, right here. I'll tell you what, I'll ask my dad if he remembers the first person in the 1970s who told him the world was going to end in ten years due to global cooling I remember in the 90s it was the ozone hole that was going to cause us all to burn When everything is relatively fine -- climate will change, of course, as it always has, and humans will adapt -- I won't think of you, or this thread, because why would I waste my time? But I'll remember all the fearmongers and doomsayers and chicken littles, more generally Every generation has them Read this and calm down https://m.barnesandnoble.com/w/apocalypse-never-michael-shellenberger/1134858807 https://m.barnesandnoble.com/w/apocalypse-never-michael-shel...
- lisper 5y ago> as it always has But that's the thing: it hasn't always. For the last 10,000 years the climate has been relatively stable, and that is the reason that human civilization was able to emerge in the first place. It's hard to build cities if the arable land moves every 10 years. Yes, every age has its doomsayers. But this time it really is different.
- germinalphrase 5y agoBy natural resources, do you mean fresh water and arable land?
- imtringued 5y agoI don't think Canadians will welcome a huge wave of refugees that dwarfs their own population with open arms.