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You mean the Maori that in 1835 set out to murder every single man, woman and child of the peaceful Moriori people on Chatham Island just for sport? [1] Yeah I

You mean the Maori that in 1835 set out to murder every single man, woman and child of the peaceful Moriori people on Chatham Island just for sport? [1] Yeah I don't think so. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham_Islands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham_Islands

aww_dang 5y ago
The obvious point here, is that Western people don't deserve to be generalized as imperialists anymore than the Maori do. The article reeks of ID politics. HN will most likely find your observation offensive. If only the double standard in the permissible generalizations of the article were as easily observable.
GuardianCaveman 5y ago
“ Ernst Dieffenbach, who visited the Chathams on a New Zealand Company ship in 1840, reported that the Moriori were the virtual slaves of Māori and were severely mistreated, with death being a blessing. By the time the slaves were released in 1863, only 160 remained, hardly 10% of the 1835 population”
bpodgursky 5y ago
Yeah this is a weird meme. The Maori were incredible navigators and warriors, and what they did to maintain independence against overwhelming British power was truly impressive. But... they were incredibly bloody and violent warriors. That's like, the most well-known impressive part of their culture. Superimposing some bizarre romanic notion of them as peaceful environmental stewards is crazy.
datameta 5y ago
Yeah, I am all for the altruistic and environmentally sound utilization of Antarctica. However the Maori, for all their cultural richness, were a product of their times and the struggles they faced in surviving in a geography that had its population support limits. Perhaps they are not the best contrast to industry aided colonization. Maybe only a less effective version. > Soon, Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama began to takahi, or walk the land, to lay claim to it. > A Māori chief, Te Rakatau Katihe, said: "We took possession ... in accordance with our custom, and we caught all the people. Not one escaped. Some ran away from us, these we killed; and others also we killed – but what of that? It was in accordance with our custom."
jb1991 5y ago
Just look at what the French did to Vietnam, what the early Americans did to the Native Americans, what the Germans did to all of Europe, what the Dutch did to Indonesia, the list goes on and on... Doesn't seem fair to criticize one of these and ignore the others. Maybe better to just accept that time has moved on.
- labrador 5y ago
  "Whataboutism." What about what the Belgians did to the Congo? What's unfair and unscientific is to treat all white people and everything they do the same.
- HKH2 5y ago
  Until today, I had never heard of the Maori committing genocide.
pleb_nz 5y ago
You don't think that's using a very wide brush to paint all Maori at all points in history and across all iwi the same? How do you feel about Germany and what they did less than 100 years ago. Nearly every tribe, nation, empire or a represntive of has blood on their hands in some wrong doing at some point in history. I feel you're being harsh and dismissive. There could stil be good to come from their guidance and the Maori do a lot in New Zealand and are taking on a lot of roles to safeguard the environment and be leaders and guardians in those areas.
- HKH2 5y ago
  > Nearly every tribe, nation, empire or a represntive of has blood on their hands in some wrong doing at some point in history. I think there is a non-trivial amount of people who refuse to accept that.
runarberg 5y ago
People commit atrocities. There is no reason to link the descendants to the crimes of their ancestors when said atrocities have stopped generations ago. As a white western European I certainly hope I will not be judged for the crimes of my forefathers. Your post reminds of the pilot episode for Star Trek: The Next Generation. Q would not allow the starship Enterprise to explore the galaxy and would charge its crew for the past wrongs of the entire human race. It looks like you are taking the same position as Q here.

aww_dang 5y ago

The obvious point here, is that Western people don't deserve to be generalized as imperialists anymore than the Maori do. The article reeks of ID politics. HN will most likely find your observation offensive. If only the double standard in the permissible generalizations of the article were as easily observable.

GuardianCaveman 5y ago

“ Ernst Dieffenbach, who visited the Chathams on a New Zealand Company ship in 1840, reported that the Moriori were the virtual slaves of Māori and were severely mistreated, with death being a blessing. By the time the slaves were released in 1863, only 160 remained, hardly 10% of the 1835 population”

bpodgursky 5y ago

Yeah this is a weird meme. The Maori were incredible navigators and warriors, and what they did to maintain independence against overwhelming British power was truly impressive. But... they were incredibly bloody and violent warriors. That's like, the most well-known impressive part of their culture. Superimposing some bizarre romanic notion of them as peaceful environmental stewards is crazy.

datameta 5y ago

Yeah, I am all for the altruistic and environmentally sound utilization of Antarctica. However the Maori, for all their cultural richness, were a product of their times and the struggles they faced in surviving in a geography that had its population support limits. Perhaps they are not the best contrast to industry aided colonization. Maybe only a less effective version. > Soon, Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama began to takahi, or walk the land, to lay claim to it. > A Māori chief, Te Rakatau Katihe, said: "We took possession ... in accordance with our custom, and we caught all the people. Not one escaped. Some ran away from us, these we killed; and others also we killed – but what of that? It was in accordance with our custom."

jb1991 5y ago

Just look at what the French did to Vietnam, what the early Americans did to the Native Americans, what the Germans did to all of Europe, what the Dutch did to Indonesia, the list goes on and on... Doesn't seem fair to criticize one of these and ignore the others. Maybe better to just accept that time has moved on.

labrador 5y ago
"Whataboutism." What about what the Belgians did to the Congo? What's unfair and unscientific is to treat all white people and everything they do the same.
HKH2 5y ago
Until today, I had never heard of the Maori committing genocide.

pleb_nz 5y ago

You don't think that's using a very wide brush to paint all Maori at all points in history and across all iwi the same? How do you feel about Germany and what they did less than 100 years ago. Nearly every tribe, nation, empire or a represntive of has blood on their hands in some wrong doing at some point in history. I feel you're being harsh and dismissive. There could stil be good to come from their guidance and the Maori do a lot in New Zealand and are taking on a lot of roles to safeguard the environment and be leaders and guardians in those areas.

HKH2 5y ago
> Nearly every tribe, nation, empire or a represntive of has blood on their hands in some wrong doing at some point in history. I think there is a non-trivial amount of people who refuse to accept that.

runarberg 5y ago

People commit atrocities. There is no reason to link the descendants to the crimes of their ancestors when said atrocities have stopped generations ago. As a white western European I certainly hope I will not be judged for the crimes of my forefathers. Your post reminds of the pilot episode for Star Trek: The Next Generation. Q would not allow the starship Enterprise to explore the galaxy and would charge its crew for the past wrongs of the entire human race. It looks like you are taking the same position as Q here.