7 ms·

Onyx Boox Mira Pro is a 25 inch E INK Monitor

117 points by Matrixik 5y ago

Octoth0rpe 5y ago
That looks like an interesting product. One spec that I don't see in the article is the number of colors that the display supports. IIRC, that's still very low for eink displays. ie, only 256 colors.
- hasmolo 5y ago
  this one is still black and white. i think that the color screens have an even slower refresh still
taywrobel 5y ago
Was trying to find actual info on frame rate and couldn’t locate any, but I did find this demo video that makes it look to be in the 5-10 FPS range - https://youtu.be/WT031cs-tjo https://youtu.be/WT031cs-tjo So probably good enough for reading/coding/browsing static sites, but scrolling will feel laggy and videos/animations will be a hard watch. Still a pretty significant improvement over the eInk displays you get in Kindles which can take 500ms+ to refresh.
- Matrixik 5y ago
  On smaller version (Onyx Boox Max Lumi) you could play (well, almost) Call of Duty: https://youtu.be/2RQFYVfIgz0 https://youtu.be/2RQFYVfIgz0
tluyben2 5y ago
Ah! They are moving into different markets outside ereaders, so then please make my dream happen[0]. They are not far removed for what I want (I use my Boox with keyboard as monitor for smaller devices connected via wifi already); faster ARM proc, more mem, more storage + sd card. Bonus points for LTE. But the biggest thing; normal OS; Linux or Windows. Then I would be done. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27513791 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27513791
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
killingtime74 5y ago
That's pretty steep
sixothree 5y ago
I wonder what the real experience of writing documents and typing code would be on this. Is the latency acceptable to not feel "detached"? Regardless, I am exciting because honestly my eyes are killing me staring at three or four monitors all day long.
- Epskampie 5y ago
  Not trying to mom you, but have you tried turning down the brightness until it’s the same as a sheet of paper in the same location? It’s made a big difference for me, but takes some getting used to.
  - sixothree 5y ago
    No. It's okay. I appreciate the advice.
- light_cone 5y ago
  I have an Onyx Boox 2 (e-ink tablet with hdmi input), and tried to code on it. Can't speak about the latency because it's not the same product. But what I realized is: you lose syntax coloring. Try to turn your monitor black and white to test if you find the lack of coloring acceptable.
  - sixothree 5y ago
    This is useful advice.
Jedd 5y ago
> There are a myriad of operating systems it supports, such as Windows 10, MAC OS, Android, Linux. For a site all about reading, mistaking myriad as a synonym for 'number' rather than 'many' is disappointing. Counting (GNU)/Linux twice doesn't help. 25" diagonal with 3200×1800 would be perfect for most of my passive reading activities, and the frame rate would have to be dismal for me to be disappointed. The price quoted ($1500 -- I assume USD) is stupidly steep though. As a commenter on the announcement observed, 8999 yen ~= AUD $110 ... which is stupidly cheap, if that's real. EDIT - thank you to the three people, each 1m apart, that corrected my mistake (still present above) about pricing.
- rjmunro 5y ago
  Why does it need to support operating systems at all? If it's got an HDMI connector, I'd like it to support HDMI specification signals no matter how I generate them (blu-ray player, set top box, camera etc.)
- cehrlich 5y ago
  The price is in Yuan, so unfortunately the $1500 is correct. However, this being the first of its kind gives me real hope that a few years from now something like this will be affordable.
- kevinwang 5y ago
  It says ships from China, so that's 8999 Yuan, not yen. Which means the $1500 is correct.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
rank0 5y ago
The eink space is seeing a lot of new products lately and I’m super optimistic about the future. I would sell my left kidney for a high res 60hz full color eink monitor.
dspillett 5y ago
Interesting, the 13.3" version could be particularly useful for me. Shame the company's attitude to the GPL (essentially ignoring it, and claiming "unfair anti-China sentiment" & closing off forums when people call them out on that) precludes me from considering any of their products currently.
- someperson 5y ago
  > Shame the company's attitude to the GPL (essentially ignoring it, and claiming "unfair anti-China sentiment" & closing off forums when people call them out on that) precludes me from considering any of their products currently. Wow you're right: https://www.reddit.com/r/Onyx_Boox/comments/hsn7kx/onyx_using_recent_antichina_movement_as_excuse_to/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Onyx_Boox/comments/hsn7kx/onyx_usin...
- cunidev 5y ago
  Also, E-ink as a company in general is apparently quite nasty: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26143779 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26143779
  - black_puppydog 5y ago
    Oh, thanks for pointing to that. In that thread I found out about clearInk, something of a competitor; seems like an old-style reflective color LCD with long battery life. I'd love to see these in devices like the AlphaSmart Neo2
  - ThrowawayR2 5y ago
    I've seen that post repeated before but there's little evidence to corroborate it. Corporate acquisitions have to be be announced (somebody correct me if I'm wrong) and there's only one acquisition that I've seen news of E-ink making. Moreover, if "forget about getting any detailed datasheets about how to correctly drive their displays to get sharp images" were true, then this product and Dasung's similar product wouldn't even exist.
  - robinsoh 5y ago
    > Also, E-ink as a company in general is apparently quite nasty I work in the display industry. I haven't seen them behave in a nasty way. If you look at that comment you linked to, I questioned it and didn't get a reply. So I'm suspicious. I even saw a news article use that very same comment as a citation which is ridiculous. Then now you cite the same unsubstantiated comment as well which is worrying. I do see a lot of disgruntled hobbyists here on HN who seem to hate E-Ink, Liquavista and other new display tech manufacturers. I gather there's a feeling among these hobbyists that somehow manufacturers should be lining up to give them samples and assist them in their startup ideas. That's an unreasonable expectation.
mrd3v0 5y ago
No mention of the elephant in the room: refresh rate. E-ink displays typically have incredibly low (full) refresh rate, which coincidentally is fine for reading. However for a desktop which may involve a lot of moving elements this seems like a major limitation.
- rchaud 5y ago
  Boox devices running Android have 3 user-adjustable levels of screen refresh. The higher you go, the more battery it uses, but higher levels let you browse the web relatively well.
  - dogma1138 5y ago
    And the higher you go the more ghosting you get and the contrast level drops sharply. They increase the refresh rate by both boosting the voltage and limiting the dynamic range of the screen.
- beprogrammed 5y ago
  Just need to modify your desktop to work with such a display appropriately, no motion, no quick changes.
hda2 5y ago
I refuse to buy from a company that refuses to respect their customers' rights to modify their software. Remarkable are better in this regard but not by much, but at least they don't blatantly ignore copyright. The Linux foundation should seek an import injunction.
- jfim 5y ago
  Out of curiosity, what is it that remarkable should be doing differently? They seem to have the source code on GitHub (https://github.com/remarkable https://github.com/remarkable) and have ssh root access to the device usable without any major hoops to jump through (the IP and randomly generated password is in one of the about screens).
beprogrammed 5y ago
Shut up and take my money.
efficax 5y ago
8999 yen is less than $100. Can that be right? edit: Realizing now that is Yuan, not Yen. Same symbol!
- Txmm 5y ago
  it’s probably cny or ~$1,400
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

117 points by Matrixik 5y ago

That looks like an interesting product. One spec that I don't see in the article is the number of colors that the display supports. IIRC, that's still very low for eink displays. ie, only 256 colors.

hasmolo 5y ago
this one is still black and white. i think that the color screens have an even slower refresh still

taywrobel 5y ago

Was trying to find actual info on frame rate and couldn’t locate any, but I did find this demo video that makes it look to be in the 5-10 FPS range - https://youtu.be/WT031cs-tjo https://youtu.be/WT031cs-tjo So probably good enough for reading/coding/browsing static sites, but scrolling will feel laggy and videos/animations will be a hard watch. Still a pretty significant improvement over the eInk displays you get in Kindles which can take 500ms+ to refresh.

Matrixik 5y ago
On smaller version (Onyx Boox Max Lumi) you could play (well, almost) Call of Duty: https://youtu.be/2RQFYVfIgz0 https://youtu.be/2RQFYVfIgz0

tluyben2 5y ago

Ah! They are moving into different markets outside ereaders, so then please make my dream happen[0]. They are not far removed for what I want (I use my Boox with keyboard as monitor for smaller devices connected via wifi already); faster ARM proc, more mem, more storage + sd card. Bonus points for LTE. But the biggest thing; normal OS; Linux or Windows. Then I would be done. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27513791 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27513791

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

killingtime74 5y ago

That's pretty steep

sixothree 5y ago

I wonder what the real experience of writing documents and typing code would be on this. Is the latency acceptable to not feel "detached"? Regardless, I am exciting because honestly my eyes are killing me staring at three or four monitors all day long.

Epskampie 5y ago
Not trying to mom you, but have you tried turning down the brightness until it’s the same as a sheet of paper in the same location? It’s made a big difference for me, but takes some getting used to.
- sixothree 5y ago
  No. It's okay. I appreciate the advice.
light_cone 5y ago
I have an Onyx Boox 2 (e-ink tablet with hdmi input), and tried to code on it. Can't speak about the latency because it's not the same product. But what I realized is: you lose syntax coloring. Try to turn your monitor black and white to test if you find the lack of coloring acceptable.
- sixothree 5y ago
  This is useful advice.

Jedd 5y ago

> There are a myriad of operating systems it supports, such as Windows 10, MAC OS, Android, Linux. For a site all about reading, mistaking myriad as a synonym for 'number' rather than 'many' is disappointing. Counting (GNU)/Linux twice doesn't help. 25" diagonal with 3200×1800 would be perfect for most of my passive reading activities, and the frame rate would have to be dismal for me to be disappointed. The price quoted ($1500 -- I assume USD) is stupidly steep though. As a commenter on the announcement observed, 8999 yen ~= AUD $110 ... which is stupidly cheap, if that's real. EDIT - thank you to the three people, each 1m apart, that corrected my mistake (still present above) about pricing.

rjmunro 5y ago
Why does it need to support operating systems at all? If it's got an HDMI connector, I'd like it to support HDMI specification signals no matter how I generate them (blu-ray player, set top box, camera etc.)
cehrlich 5y ago
The price is in Yuan, so unfortunately the $1500 is correct. However, this being the first of its kind gives me real hope that a few years from now something like this will be affordable.
kevinwang 5y ago
It says ships from China, so that's 8999 Yuan, not yen. Which means the $1500 is correct.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

rank0 5y ago

The eink space is seeing a lot of new products lately and I’m super optimistic about the future. I would sell my left kidney for a high res 60hz full color eink monitor.

dspillett 5y ago

Interesting, the 13.3" version could be particularly useful for me. Shame the company's attitude to the GPL (essentially ignoring it, and claiming "unfair anti-China sentiment" & closing off forums when people call them out on that) precludes me from considering any of their products currently.

someperson 5y ago
> Shame the company's attitude to the GPL (essentially ignoring it, and claiming "unfair anti-China sentiment" & closing off forums when people call them out on that) precludes me from considering any of their products currently. Wow you're right: https://www.reddit.com/r/Onyx_Boox/comments/hsn7kx/onyx_using_recent_antichina_movement_as_excuse_to/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Onyx_Boox/comments/hsn7kx/onyx_usin...
cunidev 5y ago
Also, E-ink as a company in general is apparently quite nasty: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26143779 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26143779
- black_puppydog 5y ago
  Oh, thanks for pointing to that. In that thread I found out about clearInk, something of a competitor; seems like an old-style reflective color LCD with long battery life. I'd love to see these in devices like the AlphaSmart Neo2
- ThrowawayR2 5y ago
  I've seen that post repeated before but there's little evidence to corroborate it. Corporate acquisitions have to be be announced (somebody correct me if I'm wrong) and there's only one acquisition that I've seen news of E-ink making. Moreover, if "forget about getting any detailed datasheets about how to correctly drive their displays to get sharp images" were true, then this product and Dasung's similar product wouldn't even exist.
- robinsoh 5y ago
  > Also, E-ink as a company in general is apparently quite nasty I work in the display industry. I haven't seen them behave in a nasty way. If you look at that comment you linked to, I questioned it and didn't get a reply. So I'm suspicious. I even saw a news article use that very same comment as a citation which is ridiculous. Then now you cite the same unsubstantiated comment as well which is worrying. I do see a lot of disgruntled hobbyists here on HN who seem to hate E-Ink, Liquavista and other new display tech manufacturers. I gather there's a feeling among these hobbyists that somehow manufacturers should be lining up to give them samples and assist them in their startup ideas. That's an unreasonable expectation.

mrd3v0 5y ago

No mention of the elephant in the room: refresh rate. E-ink displays typically have incredibly low (full) refresh rate, which coincidentally is fine for reading. However for a desktop which may involve a lot of moving elements this seems like a major limitation.

rchaud 5y ago
Boox devices running Android have 3 user-adjustable levels of screen refresh. The higher you go, the more battery it uses, but higher levels let you browse the web relatively well.
- dogma1138 5y ago
  And the higher you go the more ghosting you get and the contrast level drops sharply. They increase the refresh rate by both boosting the voltage and limiting the dynamic range of the screen.
beprogrammed 5y ago
Just need to modify your desktop to work with such a display appropriately, no motion, no quick changes.

hda2 5y ago

I refuse to buy from a company that refuses to respect their customers' rights to modify their software. Remarkable are better in this regard but not by much, but at least they don't blatantly ignore copyright. The Linux foundation should seek an import injunction.

jfim 5y ago
Out of curiosity, what is it that remarkable should be doing differently? They seem to have the source code on GitHub (https://github.com/remarkable https://github.com/remarkable) and have ssh root access to the device usable without any major hoops to jump through (the IP and randomly generated password is in one of the about screens).

beprogrammed 5y ago

Shut up and take my money.

efficax 5y ago

8999 yen is less than $100. Can that be right? edit: Realizing now that is Yuan, not Yen. Same symbol!

Txmm 5y ago
it’s probably cny or ~$1,400
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]