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I wonder if they can also solve the child-slavery-within-cobalt-mines problem while they're at it. https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/md1526/im_terry_colli

by junon 5y ago

I wonder if they can also solve the child-slavery-within-cobalt-mines problem while they're at it. https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/md1526/im_terry_collingsworth_the_human_rights_lawyer/gs6ntsl/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/md1526/im_terry_colli...

eunos 5y ago
Non cobalt battery like LFP or Sodium iron batteries then.
- junon 5y ago
  NorthVolt still uses Cobalt. Their process is just different. They state it clearly in the article.
- baybal2 5y ago
  Most of LFP cathode material manufacturing is in China, and there are few small Japanese suppliers.
- audunw 5y ago
  Not using cobalt for batteries doesn't solve the problem. Batteries is not the only place we use cobalt. It's used in fuel refining for instance. I really don't get this.. why do some people seem to think that not buying EVs or not using cobalt batteries will get rid of child slave labor? If anything, increasing the amount of cobalt that's produced could improve the situation. It may push produces towards more efficient and industrialized production. It might make DR Congo more wealthy. And using it in a product where people care about environmental and social costs puts more focus on the whole child labor issue (unlike fuel and metal alloys, where it's more "out of sight, out of mind")
  - imtringued 5y ago
    It is pretty obvious that helping your enemy become prosperous will reduce human suffering. The question is, will your enemy turn into a friend or just consider you a stupid sucker? Maybe we should do this and then assassinate the leader once the sentiment has shifted pro West. The goal isn't a better government, just a reason to "invest" into reducing human suffering.
PinguTS 5y ago
The latest statistics I've seen, show that child slavery accounts for about 12% of the overall cobalt production. Because 60% of the Cobalt comes from DNC and within DNC its about 20%[1]. So, while this is an issue that needs to be addressed, it is not much of an issue in terms of electric cars. They need in an order of magnitude, that they have the control over where the Cobalt actually comes from. Nevertheless the automotive industry works hard on Cobalt-free batteries. If child labour is a thing for you, then you should think about the cheap stuff from China, that contains any sort of battery. [1] https://www.humanium.org/en/the-impact-of-covid-19-on-child-labour-in-cobalt-mines-in-the-drc/ https://www.humanium.org/en/the-impact-of-covid-19-on-child-...
- imtringued 5y ago
  I see no mention of child slavery, only child labor. Child labor is voluntary in the sense that these children have no parental support and no better options. The way to help them would involve providing better options or institutional support rather than an attempt to regulate what amounts to a black market activity.
  - CyanBird 5y ago
    This is the correct take, but, to do that is more difficult and "overall less markateable" to the public These areas where child labor is still a thing, they are generally backwaters where there is no sanitation let alone large schools with "high" quality housing and food for orphanages A non-trivial amount of these kids have nowhere else to go, or they must work to assist with family income and this is the highest income they can get So yes, this is very much a black market issue, "at best" the areas where the cobalt is could be liased to large international companies like RioTinto, but then that would mean that the children would just move to working in other sources of income But again, these topics are not easily marketable for the general western public
consumer451 5y ago
This is not whataboutism, but I would just like to point out the fact that petroleum production uses a lot of cobalt in refining, yet this rarely gets mentioned as an issue. > Cobalt plays a vital role in catalysing the removal of sulphur from oil, contributing to a more sustainable society. ... By using a cobalt oxide-molybdenum oxide catalyst (CoMOX), the sulphur can be converted into hydrogen sulphide (H2S). https://www.cobaltinstitute.org/desulphurisation.html https://www.cobaltinstitute.org/desulphurisation.html
alkonaut 5y ago
They hope to use 50% recycled material. Unsure if Cobalt is part of it or if that is re-sourced.

by junon 5y ago

eunos 5y ago

Non cobalt battery like LFP or Sodium iron batteries then.

junon 5y ago
NorthVolt still uses Cobalt. Their process is just different. They state it clearly in the article.
baybal2 5y ago
Most of LFP cathode material manufacturing is in China, and there are few small Japanese suppliers.
audunw 5y ago
Not using cobalt for batteries doesn't solve the problem. Batteries is not the only place we use cobalt. It's used in fuel refining for instance. I really don't get this.. why do some people seem to think that not buying EVs or not using cobalt batteries will get rid of child slave labor? If anything, increasing the amount of cobalt that's produced could improve the situation. It may push produces towards more efficient and industrialized production. It might make DR Congo more wealthy. And using it in a product where people care about environmental and social costs puts more focus on the whole child labor issue (unlike fuel and metal alloys, where it's more "out of sight, out of mind")
- imtringued 5y ago
  It is pretty obvious that helping your enemy become prosperous will reduce human suffering. The question is, will your enemy turn into a friend or just consider you a stupid sucker? Maybe we should do this and then assassinate the leader once the sentiment has shifted pro West. The goal isn't a better government, just a reason to "invest" into reducing human suffering.

PinguTS 5y ago

The latest statistics I've seen, show that child slavery accounts for about 12% of the overall cobalt production. Because 60% of the Cobalt comes from DNC and within DNC its about 20%[1]. So, while this is an issue that needs to be addressed, it is not much of an issue in terms of electric cars. They need in an order of magnitude, that they have the control over where the Cobalt actually comes from. Nevertheless the automotive industry works hard on Cobalt-free batteries. If child labour is a thing for you, then you should think about the cheap stuff from China, that contains any sort of battery. [1] https://www.humanium.org/en/the-impact-of-covid-19-on-child-labour-in-cobalt-mines-in-the-drc/ https://www.humanium.org/en/the-impact-of-covid-19-on-child-...

imtringued 5y ago
I see no mention of child slavery, only child labor. Child labor is voluntary in the sense that these children have no parental support and no better options. The way to help them would involve providing better options or institutional support rather than an attempt to regulate what amounts to a black market activity.
- CyanBird 5y ago
  This is the correct take, but, to do that is more difficult and "overall less markateable" to the public These areas where child labor is still a thing, they are generally backwaters where there is no sanitation let alone large schools with "high" quality housing and food for orphanages A non-trivial amount of these kids have nowhere else to go, or they must work to assist with family income and this is the highest income they can get So yes, this is very much a black market issue, "at best" the areas where the cobalt is could be liased to large international companies like RioTinto, but then that would mean that the children would just move to working in other sources of income But again, these topics are not easily marketable for the general western public

consumer451 5y ago

This is not whataboutism, but I would just like to point out the fact that petroleum production uses a lot of cobalt in refining, yet this rarely gets mentioned as an issue. > Cobalt plays a vital role in catalysing the removal of sulphur from oil, contributing to a more sustainable society. ... By using a cobalt oxide-molybdenum oxide catalyst (CoMOX), the sulphur can be converted into hydrogen sulphide (H2S). https://www.cobaltinstitute.org/desulphurisation.html https://www.cobaltinstitute.org/desulphurisation.html

alkonaut 5y ago

They hope to use 50% recycled material. Unsure if Cobalt is part of it or if that is re-sourced.