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In my opinion the difference should be whether something is the first generation of a product or an iteration. Basically somehow using the Lindy effect to deter

by smoe 5y ago

In my opinion the difference should be whether something is the first generation of a product or an iteration. Basically somehow using the Lindy effect to determine how long it should be supported. E.g. if I had bought the very first generation of the iPhone it would have been much more out of couriosity, not long time usage expectation. But I think there now has been enough development on it, that I should be able to expect the iPhone I bought in 2020 to last say to 2030 somehow if I want to stick with it.

roel_v 5y ago
OK, well now come up with a formula that says (from a series of objective and not-readily-gameable characteristics) for a random electrical/electronic device (or, if you want to separate the two, provide a way to do so - is a 1980's microwave with an 8-bit controller for the timer 'electronics' or 'electrical'?) how long the warranty should be, how long it should be 'supported' (for a definition of 'supported') and how long critical errors should be fixed. Also specify which issues, and at which time point, should be paid for or not. There is a lot of 'everything should be supported for eternity for free' in this thread, but I see no (at least somewhat) concrete suggestions for better solutions. If it was easy, we would have done it people.
- southerntofu 5y ago
  > There is a lot of 'everything should be supported for eternity for free' in this thread, but I see no (at least somewhat) concrete suggestions for better solutions. If it was easy, we would have done it people. That's the easy, concrete solution. It's just not "profitable" from a capitalist perspective, and that's why no manufacturer is doing it. Well not exactly nobody. Some manufacturers like FACOM (probably others) that are not into electronics have (or used to have) lifetime warranties and will happily repair or replace a product that is decades old. The question is: as a society, do we want to pursue everyone's good and make things more efficient and ecological? or do we want more profits for the industry owners and more inequality and damage to the environment? These two paths are fundamentally opposed. There is no conciliating them. If you want "nature" and "consumer rights", then you need to abolish "capitalism".
- kadoban 5y ago
  "If it was easy, we would have done it" is just not true. Companies have little to no incentive and consumers have little to no power. Barring some very unlikely industry-wide agreement, it requires legislation. (Note I'm not replying to your first paragraph at all, only the last)
- maxsilver 5y ago
  > concrete suggestions for better solutions. Here's a concrete solution -- The US Consumer Product Safety Commission should be given regulatory power over all consumer products, such as to enforce a minimum five (5) year support for repairs and parts availability, and standardized safety + recall notices. NHTSA already does all of this for cars and vehicles. (They require a minimum 10 year parts availability. They handle recalls via VIN for auto manufacturers, including notices and matching effected model lookups, etc) - https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle US-CPSC should run a matching mirror'd program exactly like it, but for consumer goods sold in the US.

by smoe 5y ago

roel_v 5y ago

OK, well now come up with a formula that says (from a series of objective and not-readily-gameable characteristics) for a random electrical/electronic device (or, if you want to separate the two, provide a way to do so - is a 1980's microwave with an 8-bit controller for the timer 'electronics' or 'electrical'?) how long the warranty should be, how long it should be 'supported' (for a definition of 'supported') and how long critical errors should be fixed. Also specify which issues, and at which time point, should be paid for or not. There is a lot of 'everything should be supported for eternity for free' in this thread, but I see no (at least somewhat) concrete suggestions for better solutions. If it was easy, we would have done it people.

southerntofu 5y ago
> There is a lot of 'everything should be supported for eternity for free' in this thread, but I see no (at least somewhat) concrete suggestions for better solutions. If it was easy, we would have done it people. That's the easy, concrete solution. It's just not "profitable" from a capitalist perspective, and that's why no manufacturer is doing it. Well not exactly nobody. Some manufacturers like FACOM (probably others) that are not into electronics have (or used to have) lifetime warranties and will happily repair or replace a product that is decades old. The question is: as a society, do we want to pursue everyone's good and make things more efficient and ecological? or do we want more profits for the industry owners and more inequality and damage to the environment? These two paths are fundamentally opposed. There is no conciliating them. If you want "nature" and "consumer rights", then you need to abolish "capitalism".
kadoban 5y ago
"If it was easy, we would have done it" is just not true. Companies have little to no incentive and consumers have little to no power. Barring some very unlikely industry-wide agreement, it requires legislation. (Note I'm not replying to your first paragraph at all, only the last)
maxsilver 5y ago
> concrete suggestions for better solutions. Here's a concrete solution -- The US Consumer Product Safety Commission should be given regulatory power over all consumer products, such as to enforce a minimum five (5) year support for repairs and parts availability, and standardized safety + recall notices. NHTSA already does all of this for cars and vehicles. (They require a minimum 10 year parts availability. They handle recalls via VIN for auto manufacturers, including notices and matching effected model lookups, etc) - https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle US-CPSC should run a matching mirror'd program exactly like it, but for consumer goods sold in the US.