8 ms·

Why does the world harbor so many different voltages, plugs, and sockets?

54 points by notorandit 5y ago

phendrenad2 5y ago
Someone needs to make an oversized version of USB-C capable of carrying 2000W+
notorandit 5y ago
Standardization makes life easier, but it is often impossible to introduce it to systems that have a messy evolutionary history. Electricity supply is a case in point. [IEEE Spectrum]
helsinkiandrew 5y ago
Go just about anywhere in the world and you can charge your laptop with a simple adapter - yet take a USB cable and and it's anybody's guess whether it will work - even if you can physically plug it in.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  Laptop charging cables come with AC adapters. USB cables are far more versatile than laptop charging cables in my experience. I am able to use a variety of USB cables if I lose one, and they’re available everywhere for much cheaper than a laptop charging cable and associated AC adapter, which most likely is not even available for purchase in most places.
- Scoundreller 5y ago
  Recently learned this the hard way. A Macbook will charge over any voltage over USB-C. Slowly, or maybe just increasing battery life, but it'll take anything. It'll charge from a 5V1A power bank if you like. So when I had to make an emergency trip, I assumed my newish Dell with USB-C charging would be the same. And that assumption was false. Unless you're charging with 20V USB-C (not common outside of laptop chargers), it won't draw anything at all.
  - ahartmetz 5y ago
    FWIW, the Thinkpad T14 Gen1 also accepts any USB voltage (or at least 5V and 20V) for charging. I did some experiments with phone chargers.
  - edrxty 5y ago
    USB C is a nightmare. Everyone has basically decided that following the spec isn't worth it and there's shit everywhere. The connector is terrible for laptops, I have to be incredibly careful not to bend the connector and the cables wear out surprisingly quickly from connect/disconnect cycles.
    - selfhoster11 5y ago
      Beats having a million proprietary charging cables.
cik 5y ago
I could accept different standards across the world - things evolve differently. But why should a country have multiple standards? That one drives me nuts. Here in Israel fine - we use Type C... except for the completely random use of Type H. Then, main room air conditioners use Type M - but at least that's standardized...except for when it isn't.
- compsciphd 5y ago
  except, that it's not really type c. type c is bigger pins in general (so while it fits, it many times has to be forced in). I'm also a bit confused by the graphic of type-h. pretty sure type h is only used here? (which is a thing itself, why!?)
- m-zuber 5y ago
  C is no ground and H does have But what I've been seeing these days is C style pins, but with a ground The M used in Israel might be different than the one pictured as it is used exclusively for 3 phase lines (so an AC that doesn't need 3 phase can then have a regular plug)
  - cik 5y ago
    Our C is both ground and no ground. We have two prong and three prong type C, much like NA has two and three prong. Currently, the electricians I've spoken to say that we do indeed use an "M" (notice the quotes) because it's an Israeli M. Frankly.. it's quite silly.
- masklinn 5y ago
  > But why should a country have multiple standards? That one drives me nuts. Here in Israel fine - we use Type C... except for the completely random use of Type H. Type C (the "europlug") is a compatibility low-amperage plug (2.5A @ 250V) for shavers and small lamps and USB power adapters and such. It was designed to be compatible with the high-power Type C, E, F, and K popular in mainland europe, but providing a cheaper plug, and allowing for dedicated low-amperage circuits (e.g. shaver sockets which would be safer in bathrooms). Type H (and N, which is brazilian) were then designed to be compatible with the Europlug in turn. > Then, main room air conditioners use Type M - but at least that's standardized...except for when it isn't. Possibly rather than Type M (which is a 15A plug) it's the 30A plug from the same over-arching BS546 standard? Or a similar-looking 3-phase plug? That's what I'd expect for high-power applications like AC. I assume the standard Type H is 15 or 16A single-phase aka the usual mains.
fy20 5y ago
Italian sockets are a fun one. The plugs come in a 10A and 16A versions which are slightly different sizes. Newer sockets will usually take both plugs, but older sockets take one or the other. The size looks very similar to European Schuko sockets, and if you jam it in, then it will just about fit (without an earth). You can get adapters all over the place, which is the way you are supposed to do it, but for older sockets they don't really hold very well so often come loose. Apparently there are sockets that will take all three, Schuko, 10A and 16A but I never saw those while living there. It's not just to trick tourists though... When you buy electrical products, sometimes they come with an Italian plug, sometimes they come with a Schuko plug.
- jaclaz 5y ago
  Yes and no. Meaning that nowadays three ways sockets ( Schucko/10 A/16 A) are common enough, but a Schuko (or a three way one) will take two "modules" whilst both the 10 A and the 16 A are narrower and take a single "module". (typically electric boxes in the wall are either a model 503 - three modules - or a 504 - four modules, but these latter oness can only be found in more recent houses), so until the use of 504's became more common, historicallty Schuko's were rare, as it was not possible to have in the same box a bipolar switch+fuse+Schuko (while it was possible to have bipolar switch+fuse+16A) which is/was the proper setup for high power sockets and with a single socket installed, it resulted in looking asymmetrical, see: https://www.elettronew.com/blog/2017/05/11/presa-elettrica-tutte-le-caratteristiche/ https://www.elettronew.com/blog/2017/05/11/presa-elettrica-t... JFYI, recently came out a new kind of socket (not yet very common) that allows in two modules to insert either a Schuko or two 10 A (or 2x16 A or 1x10A and 1x16A): https://www.archiproducts.com/newsletter/dossier/193843 https://www.archiproducts.com/newsletter/dossier/193843 The 10A one is actually compatible with the class 2 (earthless) Europlugs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europlug https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europlug Schuko's have larger pins, and it is not a good idea to jam them in a normal Italian 10A plug as the plastic cover of the plug might crack.
- selfhoster11 5y ago
  As a tourist, Italian sockets always made me furious with those sideways grounding pads/pins. Any UK->EU adapter would be pushed out by those instantly. At one point, in a fit of rage, I ripped them out of the socket of a hostel I was staying at so I could use the socket (I wouldn't ever vandalise public property like that under any circumstances). I like to think that they wouldn't be missed.
gumby 5y ago
Unfortunately this doesn’t get to why. For example the absurdly large UK plugs with integral fuses date to first (or was it postwar? I forget) surge of electrification which,for expediency’s sake was often point-to-point (like “party line” phones) so local devices needed protection. Nobody else went this route (well, excepting some dodgy informal systems I’ve seen in India and southern Africa) so could get away with smaller, less expensive plugs. (And as for terminology, why do we plug the plug into the plug in Australia?)
- fbellag 5y ago
  Australia, and Argentina since then 90s, use the Y plug, which is not mentioned in the article. Why Argentina used the same plug as Australia I have no idea, and it's not fully documented as far as know.
  - hyperionplays 5y ago
    China uses a similar inverted design as well.
- varispeed 5y ago
  I am always getting anxious that I get electrocuted when I disconnect US plug. I wish the whole world adopted UK plugs and sockets for safety.
  - palijer 5y ago
    Install some GFCI outlets everywhere and the risk is gone. Also you are very, very, very unlikely to be electrocuted in this way even if you do touch the metal and get voltage passed through you. Like, it is possible, if one finger in a hand is touching the live prong, and another finger on the other hand is touching the neutral/ground prong, you'd pass current across your chest. Or if you are touching something that is grounded, like a pipe/sink... But actually dying this way is rather unlikely.
    - edrxty 5y ago
_djo_ 5y ago
This is outdated in some ways: South Africa formally adopted IEC 60906-1 (Type N) years ago as SANS 164-2 to replace its use of Type M (SANS 164-1). It was adopted as an optional local standard in 1992, the preferred standard in 2013, and mandatory for new installations in 2015. IEC 60906-1 was developed to be the standardised global standard, with the intention of rolling it out across the EU first. However that didn't happen and so far South Africa is the only country that has chosen to adopt it. Brazil and Switzerland have closely-related local forms of IEC 60906-1, but neither is fully compatible.
CapitalistCartr 5y ago
This article only scratches the surface. There are at least 241 NEMA (National Electrical Manufacturers Association) configurations in the USA. Each serves a purpose. Each voltage/amperage combo gets one in straight blade and locking. This prevents people from plugging into something dangerous. Also, there is support for obsolete stuff, such as two-wire.
evolve2k 5y ago
I know it’s likely highly subjective and prone to local bias, but I feel a next step would be to do user testing of alternatives and derive a best form factor plug. What’s the best plug we could all be aspiring to. Some are clearly more usable than others. One metric: easy of use in the dark/based on feel alone.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- BrandoElFollito 5y ago
  another metric: independence of the direction for ground. French sockets (https://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plugs-and-sockets/e/ https://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plugs-and-sockets/...) have a male pin that forces your plug one way only. This is terrible because most (if not all) of such plugs are bent and sometimes do not physically fit. German ones (https://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plugs-and-sockets/f/ https://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plugs-and-sockets/...) do not have a prong and ple plugs can be rotated 180°
  - masklinn 5y ago
    > This is terrible because […] plugs […] sometimes do not physically fit. This is extremely uncommon and basically only happens with power strips which both are the "wrong" way around and can't be reversed. (and since pretty much every plug nowadays is an E/F hybrid, you can easily get a type F power strip for the rare case where it's needed).
    - BrandoElFollito 5y ago
      "Extremely uncommon" would need to be quantified. Beside the case of the strip you mention, there is also the more mundane physical space above the ground, or other physical limitations. In my case it is not extremely uncommon since I thought to myself a few times recently "oh no, again this £¨%¨¨£ pin".
- alkonaut 5y ago
tzs 5y ago
The article seems to be mostly about voltages and plugs/sockets that the consumer will see at the outlets throughout their home. It's interesting to look a little beyond that. Most of the places that offer 230 V at their outlets seem to be distributing power in the neighborhoods using a 3 phase 230 V system. Individual houses are wired to one phase of that. In the US, distribution throughout a neighborhood is typically 15 kV. There is a 240 V center tapped step down transformer for each house. The normal outlets in the house are wired across half the transformer, giving 120 V. Ovens, water heaters, dryers, EV chargers, air conditioners, etc get wired across the full transformer giving 240 V. There was an interesting comparison of the two approaches in this Quora answer that turned up in my Quora digest mailing two days ago [1]. (Not sure if the link will work without a Quora account). [1] https://qr.ae/pGosj7 https://qr.ae/pGosj7
- alkonaut 5y ago
  > Individual houses are wired to one phase of that. Or all 3. I thought this was most common. 3x20A (or 16 or 25) 240V is the standard for detached houses in parts of Northern Europe at least.
- Scoundreller 5y ago
  > There is a 240 V center tapped step down transformer for each house. Maybe in rural areas, but in (sub)urban areas, you'll have a... ?node? step-down transformer serving many homes. > The normal outlets in the house are wired across half the transformer, giving 120 V Would add that homes usually balance this, so half of 120V circuits will be wired to one phase, and half to the other. So sometimes you get power failures where half the house loses power. Also means installing power-line networking may only work (well) when they're on the same half of circuits of the house, unless you add a capacitor between the two sides to bridge the gap for high frequencies. Or turn on a 240V appliance to bridge the two sides together.
- masklinn 5y ago
  > Individual houses are wired to one phase of that. In many countries houses get wired to all three phases and the phases get split up afterwards, sometimes with a few 3-phase plugs available for high-power applications.
Scoundreller 5y ago
> Why Does the World Harbou?r So Many Different Voltages, Plugs,? and Sockets\? Fixed that for you.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
qwerty456127 5y ago
> A few countries (including Lebanon and Thailand) use five different plugs Isn't one particular plug prevalent in all modern installations or at least prevalent in particular geographical areas?
eatbitseveryday 5y ago
This article does little to explain why. Mostly Japan is explained due to importing from USA and Germany.
perilunar 5y ago
The annoying thing about all these plugs is that you have to plug them into the socket the 'right' way around. Cylindrical plugs (phono, RCA, BNC, banana plugs, etc.) are much more convenient. Why can't all plugs be cylindrical?

54 points by notorandit 5y ago

Someone needs to make an oversized version of USB-C capable of carrying 2000W+

Standardization makes life easier, but it is often impossible to introduce it to systems that have a messy evolutionary history. Electricity supply is a case in point. [IEEE Spectrum]

helsinkiandrew 5y ago

Go just about anywhere in the world and you can charge your laptop with a simple adapter - yet take a USB cable and and it's anybody's guess whether it will work - even if you can physically plug it in.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
Laptop charging cables come with AC adapters. USB cables are far more versatile than laptop charging cables in my experience. I am able to use a variety of USB cables if I lose one, and they’re available everywhere for much cheaper than a laptop charging cable and associated AC adapter, which most likely is not even available for purchase in most places.
Scoundreller 5y ago
Recently learned this the hard way. A Macbook will charge over any voltage over USB-C. Slowly, or maybe just increasing battery life, but it'll take anything. It'll charge from a 5V1A power bank if you like. So when I had to make an emergency trip, I assumed my newish Dell with USB-C charging would be the same. And that assumption was false. Unless you're charging with 20V USB-C (not common outside of laptop chargers), it won't draw anything at all.
- ahartmetz 5y ago
  FWIW, the Thinkpad T14 Gen1 also accepts any USB voltage (or at least 5V and 20V) for charging. I did some experiments with phone chargers.
- edrxty 5y ago
  USB C is a nightmare. Everyone has basically decided that following the spec isn't worth it and there's shit everywhere. The connector is terrible for laptops, I have to be incredibly careful not to bend the connector and the cables wear out surprisingly quickly from connect/disconnect cycles.
  - selfhoster11 5y ago
    Beats having a million proprietary charging cables.

cik 5y ago

I could accept different standards across the world - things evolve differently. But why should a country have multiple standards? That one drives me nuts. Here in Israel fine - we use Type C... except for the completely random use of Type H. Then, main room air conditioners use Type M - but at least that's standardized...except for when it isn't.

compsciphd 5y ago
except, that it's not really type c. type c is bigger pins in general (so while it fits, it many times has to be forced in). I'm also a bit confused by the graphic of type-h. pretty sure type h is only used here? (which is a thing itself, why!?)
m-zuber 5y ago
C is no ground and H does have But what I've been seeing these days is C style pins, but with a ground The M used in Israel might be different than the one pictured as it is used exclusively for 3 phase lines (so an AC that doesn't need 3 phase can then have a regular plug)
- cik 5y ago
  Our C is both ground and no ground. We have two prong and three prong type C, much like NA has two and three prong. Currently, the electricians I've spoken to say that we do indeed use an "M" (notice the quotes) because it's an Israeli M. Frankly.. it's quite silly.
masklinn 5y ago
> But why should a country have multiple standards? That one drives me nuts. Here in Israel fine - we use Type C... except for the completely random use of Type H. Type C (the "europlug") is a compatibility low-amperage plug (2.5A @ 250V) for shavers and small lamps and USB power adapters and such. It was designed to be compatible with the high-power Type C, E, F, and K popular in mainland europe, but providing a cheaper plug, and allowing for dedicated low-amperage circuits (e.g. shaver sockets which would be safer in bathrooms). Type H (and N, which is brazilian) were then designed to be compatible with the Europlug in turn. > Then, main room air conditioners use Type M - but at least that's standardized...except for when it isn't. Possibly rather than Type M (which is a 15A plug) it's the 30A plug from the same over-arching BS546 standard? Or a similar-looking 3-phase plug? That's what I'd expect for high-power applications like AC. I assume the standard Type H is 15 or 16A single-phase aka the usual mains.

fy20 5y ago

Italian sockets are a fun one. The plugs come in a 10A and 16A versions which are slightly different sizes. Newer sockets will usually take both plugs, but older sockets take one or the other. The size looks very similar to European Schuko sockets, and if you jam it in, then it will just about fit (without an earth). You can get adapters all over the place, which is the way you are supposed to do it, but for older sockets they don't really hold very well so often come loose. Apparently there are sockets that will take all three, Schuko, 10A and 16A but I never saw those while living there. It's not just to trick tourists though... When you buy electrical products, sometimes they come with an Italian plug, sometimes they come with a Schuko plug.

jaclaz 5y ago
Yes and no. Meaning that nowadays three ways sockets ( Schucko/10 A/16 A) are common enough, but a Schuko (or a three way one) will take two "modules" whilst both the 10 A and the 16 A are narrower and take a single "module". (typically electric boxes in the wall are either a model 503 - three modules - or a 504 - four modules, but these latter oness can only be found in more recent houses), so until the use of 504's became more common, historicallty Schuko's were rare, as it was not possible to have in the same box a bipolar switch+fuse+Schuko (while it was possible to have bipolar switch+fuse+16A) which is/was the proper setup for high power sockets and with a single socket installed, it resulted in looking asymmetrical, see: https://www.elettronew.com/blog/2017/05/11/presa-elettrica-tutte-le-caratteristiche/ https://www.elettronew.com/blog/2017/05/11/presa-elettrica-t... JFYI, recently came out a new kind of socket (not yet very common) that allows in two modules to insert either a Schuko or two 10 A (or 2x16 A or 1x10A and 1x16A): https://www.archiproducts.com/newsletter/dossier/193843 https://www.archiproducts.com/newsletter/dossier/193843 The 10A one is actually compatible with the class 2 (earthless) Europlugs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europlug https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europlug Schuko's have larger pins, and it is not a good idea to jam them in a normal Italian 10A plug as the plastic cover of the plug might crack.
selfhoster11 5y ago
As a tourist, Italian sockets always made me furious with those sideways grounding pads/pins. Any UK->EU adapter would be pushed out by those instantly. At one point, in a fit of rage, I ripped them out of the socket of a hostel I was staying at so I could use the socket (I wouldn't ever vandalise public property like that under any circumstances). I like to think that they wouldn't be missed.

gumby 5y ago

Unfortunately this doesn’t get to why. For example the absurdly large UK plugs with integral fuses date to first (or was it postwar? I forget) surge of electrification which,for expediency’s sake was often point-to-point (like “party line” phones) so local devices needed protection. Nobody else went this route (well, excepting some dodgy informal systems I’ve seen in India and southern Africa) so could get away with smaller, less expensive plugs. (And as for terminology, why do we plug the plug into the plug in Australia?)

fbellag 5y ago
Australia, and Argentina since then 90s, use the Y plug, which is not mentioned in the article. Why Argentina used the same plug as Australia I have no idea, and it's not fully documented as far as know.
- hyperionplays 5y ago
  China uses a similar inverted design as well.
varispeed 5y ago
I am always getting anxious that I get electrocuted when I disconnect US plug. I wish the whole world adopted UK plugs and sockets for safety.
- palijer 5y ago
  Install some GFCI outlets everywhere and the risk is gone. Also you are very, very, very unlikely to be electrocuted in this way even if you do touch the metal and get voltage passed through you. Like, it is possible, if one finger in a hand is touching the live prong, and another finger on the other hand is touching the neutral/ground prong, you'd pass current across your chest. Or if you are touching something that is grounded, like a pipe/sink... But actually dying this way is rather unlikely.
  - edrxty 5y ago

_djo_ 5y ago

This is outdated in some ways: South Africa formally adopted IEC 60906-1 (Type N) years ago as SANS 164-2 to replace its use of Type M (SANS 164-1). It was adopted as an optional local standard in 1992, the preferred standard in 2013, and mandatory for new installations in 2015. IEC 60906-1 was developed to be the standardised global standard, with the intention of rolling it out across the EU first. However that didn't happen and so far South Africa is the only country that has chosen to adopt it. Brazil and Switzerland have closely-related local forms of IEC 60906-1, but neither is fully compatible.

CapitalistCartr 5y ago

This article only scratches the surface. There are at least 241 NEMA (National Electrical Manufacturers Association) configurations in the USA. Each serves a purpose. Each voltage/amperage combo gets one in straight blade and locking. This prevents people from plugging into something dangerous. Also, there is support for obsolete stuff, such as two-wire.

evolve2k 5y ago

I know it’s likely highly subjective and prone to local bias, but I feel a next step would be to do user testing of alternatives and derive a best form factor plug. What’s the best plug we could all be aspiring to. Some are clearly more usable than others. One metric: easy of use in the dark/based on feel alone.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
BrandoElFollito 5y ago
another metric: independence of the direction for ground. French sockets (https://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plugs-and-sockets/e/ https://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plugs-and-sockets/...) have a male pin that forces your plug one way only. This is terrible because most (if not all) of such plugs are bent and sometimes do not physically fit. German ones (https://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plugs-and-sockets/f/ https://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plugs-and-sockets/...) do not have a prong and ple plugs can be rotated 180°
- masklinn 5y ago
  > This is terrible because […] plugs […] sometimes do not physically fit. This is extremely uncommon and basically only happens with power strips which both are the "wrong" way around and can't be reversed. (and since pretty much every plug nowadays is an E/F hybrid, you can easily get a type F power strip for the rare case where it's needed).
  - BrandoElFollito 5y ago
    "Extremely uncommon" would need to be quantified. Beside the case of the strip you mention, there is also the more mundane physical space above the ground, or other physical limitations. In my case it is not extremely uncommon since I thought to myself a few times recently "oh no, again this £¨%¨¨£ pin".
alkonaut 5y ago

tzs 5y ago

The article seems to be mostly about voltages and plugs/sockets that the consumer will see at the outlets throughout their home. It's interesting to look a little beyond that. Most of the places that offer 230 V at their outlets seem to be distributing power in the neighborhoods using a 3 phase 230 V system. Individual houses are wired to one phase of that. In the US, distribution throughout a neighborhood is typically 15 kV. There is a 240 V center tapped step down transformer for each house. The normal outlets in the house are wired across half the transformer, giving 120 V. Ovens, water heaters, dryers, EV chargers, air conditioners, etc get wired across the full transformer giving 240 V. There was an interesting comparison of the two approaches in this Quora answer that turned up in my Quora digest mailing two days ago [1]. (Not sure if the link will work without a Quora account). [1] https://qr.ae/pGosj7 https://qr.ae/pGosj7

alkonaut 5y ago
> Individual houses are wired to one phase of that. Or all 3. I thought this was most common. 3x20A (or 16 or 25) 240V is the standard for detached houses in parts of Northern Europe at least.
Scoundreller 5y ago
> There is a 240 V center tapped step down transformer for each house. Maybe in rural areas, but in (sub)urban areas, you'll have a... ?node? step-down transformer serving many homes. > The normal outlets in the house are wired across half the transformer, giving 120 V Would add that homes usually balance this, so half of 120V circuits will be wired to one phase, and half to the other. So sometimes you get power failures where half the house loses power. Also means installing power-line networking may only work (well) when they're on the same half of circuits of the house, unless you add a capacitor between the two sides to bridge the gap for high frequencies. Or turn on a 240V appliance to bridge the two sides together.
masklinn 5y ago
> Individual houses are wired to one phase of that. In many countries houses get wired to all three phases and the phases get split up afterwards, sometimes with a few 3-phase plugs available for high-power applications.

Scoundreller 5y ago

> Why Does the World Harbou?r So Many Different Voltages, Plugs,? and Sockets\? Fixed that for you.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

qwerty456127 5y ago

> A few countries (including Lebanon and Thailand) use five different plugs Isn't one particular plug prevalent in all modern installations or at least prevalent in particular geographical areas?

eatbitseveryday 5y ago

This article does little to explain why. Mostly Japan is explained due to importing from USA and Germany.

perilunar 5y ago

The annoying thing about all these plugs is that you have to plug them into the socket the 'right' way around. Cylindrical plugs (phono, RCA, BNC, banana plugs, etc.) are much more convenient. Why can't all plugs be cylindrical?