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I'm mad as hell about this. My father was the executive director of Anishinaabe Community Counseling, a mental health services non-profit set up by the federal

by neom 5y ago

I'm mad as hell about this. My father was the executive director of Anishinaabe Community Counseling, a mental health services non-profit set up by the federal and provincial government in North Western Ontario. I spent a lot of time on and around the reserves, and it's not like this stuff was unknown. People told stories often about the residential schools, people wouldn't go near certain areas because they knew what was there. I can't believe I'm saying this, but as a Canadian I would echo Chinas call for a full human rights inquiry at the international level. If Canada is seriously about truth and reconciliation, we need to do more than just continue to publish reports acknowledging the wrongs committed, we need real change in Canadian society. The recommendations put forward by the government never go far enough, and frankly, the Indian Act is stain on our country.

newsclues 5y ago
What does Canada need to do and what will it accomplish?
- jsjsbdkj 5y ago
  We had a multi-year project called the Truth and Reconciliation Comnmission which came up with a very exhaustive collection of testimony and calls to action. Their findings are heart-breaking, and the government has done nothing to follow through on their findings: http://www.trc.ca/about-us/trc-findings.html http://www.trc.ca/about-us/trc-findings.html If you just want the 94 calls to action, they're summarized here: http://www.trc.ca/assets/pdf/Calls_to_Action_English2.pdf http://www.trc.ca/assets/pdf/Calls_to_Action_English2.pdf
  - michael1999 5y ago
    We got the Truth. But did nothing about the Reconciliation.
  - haecceity 5y ago
    Replace public education with this.
- neom 5y ago
  Remove the Indian Act. Integration of aboriginal culture into the Canadian education system. Not just offering an aboriginal studies class, but truly taking the native perspective into the education system. Most native people I've talked with don't take advantage of their free educational affordances because they don't want to continue to be whitewashed/don't feel comfortable in institutions that don't understand their culture/are understandably extremely scared of "education" in Canada given the residential school system. Including traditional aboriginal health practises into the health care system, both mandating and expanding the services that are covered by our national insurance, but allowing a medicine man to charge OHIP for their time performing service. People don't die on reserves because they're lazy drunks(as is often portrayed), they die because they don't trust the Canadian health care system. Adding Ojibway as an official language (either federally, or mandate the provinces provide services in the predominant native language of that territory). Guaranteed seats in the Canadian parliament. All of that on top of continuing the repreve on on taxation, and in my likely unpopular opinion, a reexamination of reparation. What will it accomplish? It will only serve to minimally undo the damage that was inflicted upon these people by colonialists, my forefathers.
  - theluketaylor 5y ago
    I also want to see us pour far more resources and money into First Nations' lead preservation of as many languages as we can. Without native speakers languages die and so does the culture that produced them.
  - hluska 5y ago
    I'd vote for you. The Indian Act is a truly messed up document with all these clauses that ultimately remove status from people. I'd be incredibly happy if they removed it, provided it was replaced with something designed by Indigenous people for Indigenous people. I'm from Saskatchewan where an almost unbelievable number of people believe Indigenous people pay no taxes. That's not true at all but that sure fuels a lot of racism. Under the Indian Act, a person with status does not pay federal income tax on any money they earn on reserve. Some reserves have almost no opportunity so it ends up being a hollow benefit. I figure we have to either teach non-Indigenous people how the Indian Act really works, replace it entirely, build strong economies on reserves or extend the tax free status to any employment in Canada. I love the idea of integrating Indigenous culture and health practices into our system and making them available for everyone. The First Nations University of Canada is a start. Sadly, if you watch the press conference in an hour, the Chief of the Cowessess First Nation (Cadmus Delorme) graduated from FNUniv, was heavily involved in their students association, hosted Prince Charles and Camilla when they were here a decade ago and then worked in Student Recruitment. It is a wonderful place... I'd also like to see a more interesting path for Indigenous kids who are being released from the criminal justice system. In my city, when kids are released, one of the biggest programs teaches them how to be short order cooks and dishwashers. That's fine, but it ignores that some of these kids are absolutely brilliant and can do so much more. We could have art based programs, tech based programs, teach them OSCP or any of a wide variety of possibilities. But it's pretty hard on a kid to go from making $1,000 a day selling drugs to $12 an hour slanging french fries. I think if our system acknowledged their talent and potential the world would only get a little better. I'd also love if they expanded Gladue factors in criminal justice sentencing, as well as started using more traditional Indigenous forms of restorative justice. Sentencing circles for example are not 'going easy' on crime. They're hard on crime but in a way that's distinctly Indigenous and that fits in with their entire culture, religion and belief system. On a more personal level, I wish that everyone in Canada was as open about referring to colonialists as their forefathers as you are. Right away, just that small bit of personal responsibility could change the tone of dialogue. And finally, honestly friend, your reparations idea will be unpopular, but you are 100% correct. It's necessary...
beiller 5y ago
I think China is just trying to take pot shots and their comments on the situation really just shows how their leadership appears to act like children. Yes the residential schools are an atrocity. The children were stolen from their parents under a "best intentions" situation and died of disease that they had little natural immunity brought over via Europeans and buried in unmarked graves because the Christians thought they were all going to hell. Nice to see 2 churches burned down under suspicious circumstances in Canada recently. Maybe the church should be shouldering more of the blame here perhaps?
- soperj 5y ago
  best intentions situation? bullshit. This was to beat their culture out of them.
  - malfist 5y ago
    I think that's the first time I've ever heard genocide called "best intentions"
  - JulianMorrison 5y ago
    "Kill the indian to save the man" was how they thought of it.
  - hluska 5y ago
    As fucked up as this sounds, beating their culture out of them was one of the more mundane things that went on in these awful places. I'm not sure who will read this so I'm uncomfortable going into much detail, but if you do some digging, you'll find stories so horrific that you may find yourself thinking "I wish they had stopped at beating the culture out of them." These are some of the most horrible stories that I've ever heard. It's too horrific to even be believable fiction- the fact that it all happened and that I have graves of Indigenous children all around me is just about too terrible to think about. :(
    - Roscius 5y ago
      Like the senior boys at the schools being taken out in the middle of the night to dig graves...
goalieca 5y ago
We are still fighting to get the truth out. Reconciliation will unfortunately take generations because the problems caused by these schools and other issues reverberate through the generations. But i hope there is an accelerated push to get more of the truth out!!
hodder 5y ago
I am as well. Further, many of the people who perpetuated these crimes are still alive. Residential schools were still around in the 90s. Where are the arrests and charges? Where are the actual criminal investigations? Thoughts and prayers pretty much are meaningless and commission reports are meaningless without action.
- pbourke 5y ago
  I saw a tweet the other day from someone in her 40’s who said her children were the first generation in the family not to have been sent to a residential school. Pretty sobering.
- querulous 5y ago
  John Furlong -- the man who headed the Vancouver 2010 olympic committee and was awarded the Order of Canada -- was credibly implicated in residential school abuses. The idea that this is ancient history is completely wrong
theluketaylor 5y ago
Residential schools in particular and the treatment of First Nations is our nation's original and ongoing sin and we badly need to have a collective reckoning on what went on and how to move forward. The Truth and Reconciliation commission was a good start, but it needs to be backed with action. China's call for an international review is a craven political action designed to embarrass us on the international stage, but frankly we should be embarrassed (and a lot more). I would support using something like the International Criminal Court or the UN Commission on Human Rights to help produce findings on what went on and what can be done to start to heal. We could set an example for the world on how to reconcile on these issues and find a path forward.
- cldellow 5y ago
  > I would support using something like the International Criminal Court or the UN Commission on Human Rights to help produce findings on what went on and what can be done to start to heal. As you say, Canada had a 7 year process to do just this. It was chaired by Murray Sinclair. Sinclair is an Indigenous man with a lot of standing in the Indigenous community and in broader Canadian society. He was an associate chief justice in Manitoba, and a federal senator. It produced a bunch of documentary evidence, and a bunch of recommendations. If people want action on this, following those recommendations would be a start. As it happens, one of the recommendations is funding for the ground-penetrating radar that is turning up these burial sites. While that recommendation was ignored at the time it was made, provinces are now funding it. We can expect more of these stories to come out. We don't need to start from scratch, we just need to make progress on the existing findings.
  - soperj 5y ago
    >While that recommendation was ignored at the time it was made, provinces are now funding it. They've been vocal about funding it now that it's in the media, they haven't funded anything yet.
    - cldellow 5y ago
      That's a fair point. The announcements are relatively new, so I don't infer anything negative from the fact that disbursements haven't happened yet. The two announcements I'm thinking of are Ontario's ($10M over 3 years) and Alberta's $8M (available in $150K grants, application process for the next 6 months). The fact that there are dollar amounts, timelines, and they're offered by a political party holding a majority in the legislature makes me think it's likely to actually happen.
defaultname 5y ago
"people wouldn't go near certain areas because they knew what was there" Right. Everyone knew. There have been a number of inquiries on this. The deaths at residential schools has never been a mystery. There is nothing new being unveiled. This is an absolute tragedy, but there is a bit of a lie happening in the presentation of it, with each "discovery" being treated like it is unveiling some dark secret. No, it is a dark, but very well known, truth that has been in the open for the entirety of the program. And the truth is that mortality across the entire demographics of Canada was bad in that time period (3 out of 10 children under 5 died across the country), so it isn't entirely atypical. "we need real change in Canadian society" What does this even mean? Should the country abolish the residential school system, despite it being long abolished?
- soperj 5y ago
  Then why can't they get any information about it? The list of kids who died at these schools is much shorter than the numbers that we're seeing here.
  - Roscius 5y ago
    The Churches are refusing to release the records.
    - soperj 5y ago
      So is the Canadian Government.
  - defaultname 5y ago
    Firstly, the overwhelming majority of deaths have current records. There are gaps because of record destruction between 1936 to 1944, but the notion that this was all a secret, or that real numbers are being exposed, is not accurate. It is a grotesque period in history, and people should be angry, but a lot of people are effectively misleading people to try to anger. There is a huge amount of misinformation. Here's one famous residential school death that has been heavily leaned into - https://c2cjournal.ca/2017/10/the-sad-truth-about-chanie-wenjack/ https://c2cjournal.ca/2017/10/the-sad-truth-about-chanie-wen...
jplr8922 5y ago
Hm I'm not familiar with the specifics of a ''full human rights inquiry at the international level'', but you do seem to know a bit about all these issues. If you don't mind, I have some questions for you; 1) My understanding is that there are two layers of laws ; Indian Act + Treaties. The first affect the 600+ nation-bands, while the seconds are specific to each of them. It follows that not all nation-bands have the same relationships with the governments. Hence, modifying the law might be fair for oen group, but bad for another. Am I right? 2) The 600+ nation-bands are not an monolithic group, they have different cultures, languages, territories and interests. Hence, in a political system where democracy happens inside geographical electoral district, it is not straightforward for nation-bands to become political allies. Am I right? 3) Since the legacy of the "privileges" granted by the treaties are guaranteed under the constitution, (https://indigenousfoundations.arts.ubc.ca/constitution_act_1982_section_35/ https://indigenousfoundations.arts.ubc.ca/constitution_act_1...), "real change in Canadian Society" implies changing the constitution. Do you agree? Am I out of my shoes regarding these issues?
- neom 5y ago
  Basically what you said is correct, and you're quite astute to mention it. There is an extremely complex issue on the native side in terms of organization such that they can be proportionally and correctly represented. While most Aboriginal people in Canada "generally mostly believe around generally the same stuff" - it's as you can imagine hugely nuanced, never mind that Inuit are their own people to address in and of themselves. I could write about this extensively but I'll leave it at this: while it's true that the interfaces and work require to jive all of that together has an onus on the native people themselves, Canada has not done a particularly good job of sitting down with the chiefs across the board and facilitating a re-examination what that would look like in a modern context if a venue was presented and agreed upon. Personally, I could imagine something more like the UN?) I don't want to downplay the complexity of this side of the issue, I do think real change would require the constitution.
- hluska 5y ago
  Honestly friend, this is a really good analysis. You've managed to sum up about the last thirty years of thought in ~ 5 paragraphs. This is some really incredible writing and thinking. I can give you a bit of what I know but I'm approximately five professional degrees short of being remotely qualified. 1.) You're mostly correct here only there are not separate treaties for each band. The Canadian government recognizes 73 treaties that date from 1701 - 1921. These treaties run the gamut from "Please don't kill us" to "Please help us kill the French" to "Okay, now give us all your land." When people talk treaties, they're mostly talking about numbered treaties - I was born on Treaty 6 lands and I live and work on Treaty 4 lands. These treaties are quite complicated and have a number of complicated legal arguments associated with them. Canada has violated these treaties in really messed up ways. For example, most treaties called for Indigenous children to receive an education on reserve. That didn't happen and instead, we put them in concentration camps for kids. Because the treaties have been largely violated, there's a lot of debate amongst Indigenous people. Some think it would be good enough if Canada would just follow what has been signed. Others take on a more abolish them approach. And still others take on a renegotiate them approach. All three of these are complicated because treaties are foundational agreements for land and resource use. I don't know enough to provide more information, but I can share this paper: http://www.cba.org/cba/cle/PDF/ABOR11_Craft_Paper.pdf http://www.cba.org/cba/cle/PDF/ABOR11_Craft_Paper.pdf Incidentally, Aimee Craft is a very good writer - she currently teaches law at the University of Ottawa and has published some very interesting papers. If you're as into this subject as you seem, I bet you would have a lot of fun going through some of the stuff on her UO page: https://commonlaw.uottawa.ca/en/people/craft-aimee https://commonlaw.uottawa.ca/en/people/craft-aimee 2.) This is where stuff gets interesting. There are groups that try to bring bands together and other groups that try to keep them apart. As you mention, they have dramatically different cultures, languages and territories. On a national level, we have a group called the Assembly of First Nations: https://www.afn.ca/Home/ https://www.afn.ca/Home/ Provinces also have assemblies. In Saskatchewan, we call it FSIN (Federation of Sovereign Indian Nations). https://www.fsin.ca/ https://www.fsin.ca/ As you go through, learn more about the various groups and their ideas, I think you'll see lots of areas that pertain to all Indigenous people and others that are more niche. Indigenous politics are really interesting!! 3.) This one is a perfect example of #2. It's a long story with a lot of crazy twists and turns but the short answer is that we didn't include much about Indigenous rights and privileges while we were drafting our Constitution. It led to a really crazy (and remarkably rare) example of Canadian national unity in which virtually all the bands agreed that that was a bullshit constitution so they demonstrated en masse. The Prime Minister at the time was our current Prime Minister's father. The actual section shouldn't cause too much friction but this is Canada and whenever there is any kind of constitutional question that could have to go to the provinces, everything goes completely to shit. So while the wording is mundane, I'm pretty sure that it will turn into another constitutional crisis just like we have every single time we try to change something. Basically though, section 35 affirms current rights but adds in the provision for new rights to be added through land claims or other processes. So it doesn't box Indigenous affairs in too much while still acknowledging that Canada is founded upon treaties. It starts to get a little more interesting when you start looking into Supreme Court challenges. This is R v. Sparrow: https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/1990/1990canlii104/1990canlii104.html?autocompleteStr=R%20v%20Sparrow&autocompletePos=1 https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/1990/1990canlii104/1990... Check out the list of respondents and consider reading the ruling as well as this case which points out some holes between Federal and provincial jurisdiction: https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abpc/doc/2007/2007abpc278/2007abpc278.html?searchUrlHash=AAAAAAAAAAEAIjE5OTAgQ2FuTElJIDEwNCAoU0NDKV9jcml0aWNpemVkQnkAAAABAA4vMTk5MGNzYy1zY2M0OQE https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abpc/doc/2007/2007abpc278/2007a...
52-6F-62 5y ago
It's not even a secret. Sure we didn't learn the true nature of those schools in our classwork growing up, but it's been called out even in pop culture for the past several decades. Gord Downie even made a film about it. I don't know how many Canadians can reconcile this. I grew up with stories from my mother and her experience on a children's work farm and my grandfather getting snapped up by a Salvation Army work farm (hard to find info, but related: https://www.thestar.com/news/world/ww1/2014/08/15/home_children.html https://www.thestar.com/news/world/ww1/2014/08/15/home_child...) in the late 30's. Children of Scottish and Irish immigrants, mind you—their stories pale in comparison. I know it's easier to just forget the hard things rather than deal with them, but I can't understand why there has been so much resistance to reforming some of those matters. It's hardly as if our elected officials would even have to do much work themselves—plenty of study has gone into our best actions forward. The inertia of it all is grinding.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  You also have the barnardo boys who were trouble english kids coming during this timeperiod. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thestar.com/amp/news/insight/2015/06/19/a-timeline-of-barnardos-and-other-child-emigration-programs.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thestar.com/amp/news/insigh...
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
loceng 5y ago
There's nothing wrong about aligning with the CCP's calls for investigation - however the irony and hypocrisy shouldn't be ignored; the genocide in Canada is also in the past, which doesn't reduce its significance nor the tragedy, however genocide is actively happening in China - the pot calling the kettle black; a form of whataboutism among other tactics.
- munk-a 5y ago
  I think the Canadian government has enough tact to agree an investigation is warranted while continuing to pressure the CCP on their treatment of minorities. We can do two things at once.
  - loceng 5y ago
    Indeed, meanwhile the CCP will ironically use free speech social media platforms to try to shame and guilt Canadians - which I've personally encountered.
908B64B197 5y ago
> The recommendations put forward by the government never go far enough, and frankly, the Indian Act is stain on our country. The current party in power is pretty much responsible for residential schools. Apparently, their current leader thinks crying on camera will make people believe they changed.
- honkdaddy 5y ago
  Our current leader's _father_ was also the one who penned the disastrous and quickly withdrawn White Paper[1]. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969_White_Paper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969_White_Paper
  - 908B64B197 5y ago
    Opening relations with China and Cuba, suspension of civil and constitutional rights during the October crisis and multiculturalism. What a legacy.
    - DuncanKeith 5y ago
      It's very telling that you take an issue with multiculturalism.
      - randompwd 5y ago
        It's very telling that you don't address an issue and just allude to implied wrongness. Hope you're a fan of irony.
f38zf5vdt 5y ago
The scale of death at residential schools was known since at least 1907. > Upon taking the job, Bryce began (in his words) the “systematic collection of health statistics of the several hundred Indian bands scattered over Canada.” In 1907, Bryce released a report drawing attention to the fact that, according to his surveys, roughly one-quarter of all Indigenous children attending residential schools had died from tuberculosis: “of a total of 1537 pupils reported upon nearly 25 per cent are dead, of one school with an absolutely accurate statement, 69 per cent of ex-pupils are dead, and that everywhere the almost invariable cause of death given is tuberculosis.” [1] Bryce, a whistleblower, was defunded and removed from his position over reporting on it. The government moved to stop collecting statistics on infectious diseases in residential schools afterwards. > as a Canadian I would echo Chinas call for a full human rights inquiry at the international level. Not to diminish the tragedy of this, but China's genocide is current and ongoing. Their call for an investigation is an attempt to deflect from that. Canada should be doing something, but not on account of China's urging. That's like Nazi Germany asking for an inquiry into American Slavery. Of course it was wrong and tragic. [1] https://www.cmaj.ca/content/192/9/E223 https://www.cmaj.ca/content/192/9/E223
yumraj 5y ago
> It was one of more than 130 compulsory boarding schools funded by the Canadian government and run by religious authorities during the 19th and 20th Centuries with the aim of assimilating indigenous youth. > The children were often not allowed to speak their language or to practice their culture, and many were mistreated and abused. Sounds eerily similar to what China is doing to the Uighurs.
Kluny 5y ago
Yep, everyone knew. As a society we just decided not to care or ask questions about it for decades. These discoveries are shocking and gruesome but not surprising. I'm pissed about it too.
99_00 5y ago
>I would echo Chinas call for a full human rights inquiry at the international level There isn't a knowledge problem. The issue is well documented. The problem is figuring out what to do and convincing voters and leaders to support it. No government authority is hiding or impending any investigation or discussion about this issue. Residential schools, and the damage they caused are a part of primary education. There have been court cases, testimony, and settlements. What would a human rights inquiry achieve? Is it possible that a hostile foreign power, who is likely right now perpetrating a possibly worse genocide, is using your perfectly justified emotions to manipulate you?
voisin 5y ago
What really makes me shake with rage as a parent is that after these children died, they were not returned to their parents for burial and in many instances the parents were never informed of the death. As a Canadian I am disgusted. I say we start taxing the land Catholic Churches sit on and use 100% of the proceeds to compensate victims of these schools.

by neom 5y ago

newsclues 5y ago

What does Canada need to do and what will it accomplish?

jsjsbdkj 5y ago
We had a multi-year project called the Truth and Reconciliation Comnmission which came up with a very exhaustive collection of testimony and calls to action. Their findings are heart-breaking, and the government has done nothing to follow through on their findings: http://www.trc.ca/about-us/trc-findings.html http://www.trc.ca/about-us/trc-findings.html If you just want the 94 calls to action, they're summarized here: http://www.trc.ca/assets/pdf/Calls_to_Action_English2.pdf http://www.trc.ca/assets/pdf/Calls_to_Action_English2.pdf
- michael1999 5y ago
  We got the Truth. But did nothing about the Reconciliation.
- haecceity 5y ago
  Replace public education with this.
neom 5y ago
Remove the Indian Act. Integration of aboriginal culture into the Canadian education system. Not just offering an aboriginal studies class, but truly taking the native perspective into the education system. Most native people I've talked with don't take advantage of their free educational affordances because they don't want to continue to be whitewashed/don't feel comfortable in institutions that don't understand their culture/are understandably extremely scared of "education" in Canada given the residential school system. Including traditional aboriginal health practises into the health care system, both mandating and expanding the services that are covered by our national insurance, but allowing a medicine man to charge OHIP for their time performing service. People don't die on reserves because they're lazy drunks(as is often portrayed), they die because they don't trust the Canadian health care system. Adding Ojibway as an official language (either federally, or mandate the provinces provide services in the predominant native language of that territory). Guaranteed seats in the Canadian parliament. All of that on top of continuing the repreve on on taxation, and in my likely unpopular opinion, a reexamination of reparation. What will it accomplish? It will only serve to minimally undo the damage that was inflicted upon these people by colonialists, my forefathers.
- theluketaylor 5y ago
  I also want to see us pour far more resources and money into First Nations' lead preservation of as many languages as we can. Without native speakers languages die and so does the culture that produced them.
- hluska 5y ago
  I'd vote for you. The Indian Act is a truly messed up document with all these clauses that ultimately remove status from people. I'd be incredibly happy if they removed it, provided it was replaced with something designed by Indigenous people for Indigenous people. I'm from Saskatchewan where an almost unbelievable number of people believe Indigenous people pay no taxes. That's not true at all but that sure fuels a lot of racism. Under the Indian Act, a person with status does not pay federal income tax on any money they earn on reserve. Some reserves have almost no opportunity so it ends up being a hollow benefit. I figure we have to either teach non-Indigenous people how the Indian Act really works, replace it entirely, build strong economies on reserves or extend the tax free status to any employment in Canada. I love the idea of integrating Indigenous culture and health practices into our system and making them available for everyone. The First Nations University of Canada is a start. Sadly, if you watch the press conference in an hour, the Chief of the Cowessess First Nation (Cadmus Delorme) graduated from FNUniv, was heavily involved in their students association, hosted Prince Charles and Camilla when they were here a decade ago and then worked in Student Recruitment. It is a wonderful place... I'd also like to see a more interesting path for Indigenous kids who are being released from the criminal justice system. In my city, when kids are released, one of the biggest programs teaches them how to be short order cooks and dishwashers. That's fine, but it ignores that some of these kids are absolutely brilliant and can do so much more. We could have art based programs, tech based programs, teach them OSCP or any of a wide variety of possibilities. But it's pretty hard on a kid to go from making $1,000 a day selling drugs to $12 an hour slanging french fries. I think if our system acknowledged their talent and potential the world would only get a little better. I'd also love if they expanded Gladue factors in criminal justice sentencing, as well as started using more traditional Indigenous forms of restorative justice. Sentencing circles for example are not 'going easy' on crime. They're hard on crime but in a way that's distinctly Indigenous and that fits in with their entire culture, religion and belief system. On a more personal level, I wish that everyone in Canada was as open about referring to colonialists as their forefathers as you are. Right away, just that small bit of personal responsibility could change the tone of dialogue. And finally, honestly friend, your reparations idea will be unpopular, but you are 100% correct. It's necessary...

beiller 5y ago

I think China is just trying to take pot shots and their comments on the situation really just shows how their leadership appears to act like children. Yes the residential schools are an atrocity. The children were stolen from their parents under a "best intentions" situation and died of disease that they had little natural immunity brought over via Europeans and buried in unmarked graves because the Christians thought they were all going to hell. Nice to see 2 churches burned down under suspicious circumstances in Canada recently. Maybe the church should be shouldering more of the blame here perhaps?

soperj 5y ago
best intentions situation? bullshit. This was to beat their culture out of them.
- malfist 5y ago
  I think that's the first time I've ever heard genocide called "best intentions"
- JulianMorrison 5y ago
  "Kill the indian to save the man" was how they thought of it.
- hluska 5y ago
  As fucked up as this sounds, beating their culture out of them was one of the more mundane things that went on in these awful places. I'm not sure who will read this so I'm uncomfortable going into much detail, but if you do some digging, you'll find stories so horrific that you may find yourself thinking "I wish they had stopped at beating the culture out of them." These are some of the most horrible stories that I've ever heard. It's too horrific to even be believable fiction- the fact that it all happened and that I have graves of Indigenous children all around me is just about too terrible to think about. :(
  - Roscius 5y ago
    Like the senior boys at the schools being taken out in the middle of the night to dig graves...

goalieca 5y ago

We are still fighting to get the truth out. Reconciliation will unfortunately take generations because the problems caused by these schools and other issues reverberate through the generations. But i hope there is an accelerated push to get more of the truth out!!

hodder 5y ago

I am as well. Further, many of the people who perpetuated these crimes are still alive. Residential schools were still around in the 90s. Where are the arrests and charges? Where are the actual criminal investigations? Thoughts and prayers pretty much are meaningless and commission reports are meaningless without action.

pbourke 5y ago
I saw a tweet the other day from someone in her 40’s who said her children were the first generation in the family not to have been sent to a residential school. Pretty sobering.
querulous 5y ago
John Furlong -- the man who headed the Vancouver 2010 olympic committee and was awarded the Order of Canada -- was credibly implicated in residential school abuses. The idea that this is ancient history is completely wrong

theluketaylor 5y ago

Residential schools in particular and the treatment of First Nations is our nation's original and ongoing sin and we badly need to have a collective reckoning on what went on and how to move forward. The Truth and Reconciliation commission was a good start, but it needs to be backed with action. China's call for an international review is a craven political action designed to embarrass us on the international stage, but frankly we should be embarrassed (and a lot more). I would support using something like the International Criminal Court or the UN Commission on Human Rights to help produce findings on what went on and what can be done to start to heal. We could set an example for the world on how to reconcile on these issues and find a path forward.

cldellow 5y ago
> I would support using something like the International Criminal Court or the UN Commission on Human Rights to help produce findings on what went on and what can be done to start to heal. As you say, Canada had a 7 year process to do just this. It was chaired by Murray Sinclair. Sinclair is an Indigenous man with a lot of standing in the Indigenous community and in broader Canadian society. He was an associate chief justice in Manitoba, and a federal senator. It produced a bunch of documentary evidence, and a bunch of recommendations. If people want action on this, following those recommendations would be a start. As it happens, one of the recommendations is funding for the ground-penetrating radar that is turning up these burial sites. While that recommendation was ignored at the time it was made, provinces are now funding it. We can expect more of these stories to come out. We don't need to start from scratch, we just need to make progress on the existing findings.
- soperj 5y ago
  >While that recommendation was ignored at the time it was made, provinces are now funding it. They've been vocal about funding it now that it's in the media, they haven't funded anything yet.
  - cldellow 5y ago
    That's a fair point. The announcements are relatively new, so I don't infer anything negative from the fact that disbursements haven't happened yet. The two announcements I'm thinking of are Ontario's ($10M over 3 years) and Alberta's $8M (available in $150K grants, application process for the next 6 months). The fact that there are dollar amounts, timelines, and they're offered by a political party holding a majority in the legislature makes me think it's likely to actually happen.

defaultname 5y ago

"people wouldn't go near certain areas because they knew what was there" Right. Everyone knew. There have been a number of inquiries on this. The deaths at residential schools has never been a mystery. There is nothing new being unveiled. This is an absolute tragedy, but there is a bit of a lie happening in the presentation of it, with each "discovery" being treated like it is unveiling some dark secret. No, it is a dark, but very well known, truth that has been in the open for the entirety of the program. And the truth is that mortality across the entire demographics of Canada was bad in that time period (3 out of 10 children under 5 died across the country), so it isn't entirely atypical. "we need real change in Canadian society" What does this even mean? Should the country abolish the residential school system, despite it being long abolished?

soperj 5y ago
Then why can't they get any information about it? The list of kids who died at these schools is much shorter than the numbers that we're seeing here.
- Roscius 5y ago
  The Churches are refusing to release the records.
  - soperj 5y ago
    So is the Canadian Government.
- defaultname 5y ago
  Firstly, the overwhelming majority of deaths have current records. There are gaps because of record destruction between 1936 to 1944, but the notion that this was all a secret, or that real numbers are being exposed, is not accurate. It is a grotesque period in history, and people should be angry, but a lot of people are effectively misleading people to try to anger. There is a huge amount of misinformation. Here's one famous residential school death that has been heavily leaned into - https://c2cjournal.ca/2017/10/the-sad-truth-about-chanie-wenjack/ https://c2cjournal.ca/2017/10/the-sad-truth-about-chanie-wen...

jplr8922 5y ago

Hm I'm not familiar with the specifics of a ''full human rights inquiry at the international level'', but you do seem to know a bit about all these issues. If you don't mind, I have some questions for you; 1) My understanding is that there are two layers of laws ; Indian Act + Treaties. The first affect the 600+ nation-bands, while the seconds are specific to each of them. It follows that not all nation-bands have the same relationships with the governments. Hence, modifying the law might be fair for oen group, but bad for another. Am I right? 2) The 600+ nation-bands are not an monolithic group, they have different cultures, languages, territories and interests. Hence, in a political system where democracy happens inside geographical electoral district, it is not straightforward for nation-bands to become political allies. Am I right? 3) Since the legacy of the "privileges" granted by the treaties are guaranteed under the constitution, (https://indigenousfoundations.arts.ubc.ca/constitution_act_1982_section_35/ https://indigenousfoundations.arts.ubc.ca/constitution_act_1...), "real change in Canadian Society" implies changing the constitution. Do you agree? Am I out of my shoes regarding these issues?

neom 5y ago
Basically what you said is correct, and you're quite astute to mention it. There is an extremely complex issue on the native side in terms of organization such that they can be proportionally and correctly represented. While most Aboriginal people in Canada "generally mostly believe around generally the same stuff" - it's as you can imagine hugely nuanced, never mind that Inuit are their own people to address in and of themselves. I could write about this extensively but I'll leave it at this: while it's true that the interfaces and work require to jive all of that together has an onus on the native people themselves, Canada has not done a particularly good job of sitting down with the chiefs across the board and facilitating a re-examination what that would look like in a modern context if a venue was presented and agreed upon. Personally, I could imagine something more like the UN?) I don't want to downplay the complexity of this side of the issue, I do think real change would require the constitution.
hluska 5y ago
Honestly friend, this is a really good analysis. You've managed to sum up about the last thirty years of thought in ~ 5 paragraphs. This is some really incredible writing and thinking. I can give you a bit of what I know but I'm approximately five professional degrees short of being remotely qualified. 1.) You're mostly correct here only there are not separate treaties for each band. The Canadian government recognizes 73 treaties that date from 1701 - 1921. These treaties run the gamut from "Please don't kill us" to "Please help us kill the French" to "Okay, now give us all your land." When people talk treaties, they're mostly talking about numbered treaties - I was born on Treaty 6 lands and I live and work on Treaty 4 lands. These treaties are quite complicated and have a number of complicated legal arguments associated with them. Canada has violated these treaties in really messed up ways. For example, most treaties called for Indigenous children to receive an education on reserve. That didn't happen and instead, we put them in concentration camps for kids. Because the treaties have been largely violated, there's a lot of debate amongst Indigenous people. Some think it would be good enough if Canada would just follow what has been signed. Others take on a more abolish them approach. And still others take on a renegotiate them approach. All three of these are complicated because treaties are foundational agreements for land and resource use. I don't know enough to provide more information, but I can share this paper: http://www.cba.org/cba/cle/PDF/ABOR11_Craft_Paper.pdf http://www.cba.org/cba/cle/PDF/ABOR11_Craft_Paper.pdf Incidentally, Aimee Craft is a very good writer - she currently teaches law at the University of Ottawa and has published some very interesting papers. If you're as into this subject as you seem, I bet you would have a lot of fun going through some of the stuff on her UO page: https://commonlaw.uottawa.ca/en/people/craft-aimee https://commonlaw.uottawa.ca/en/people/craft-aimee 2.) This is where stuff gets interesting. There are groups that try to bring bands together and other groups that try to keep them apart. As you mention, they have dramatically different cultures, languages and territories. On a national level, we have a group called the Assembly of First Nations: https://www.afn.ca/Home/ https://www.afn.ca/Home/ Provinces also have assemblies. In Saskatchewan, we call it FSIN (Federation of Sovereign Indian Nations). https://www.fsin.ca/ https://www.fsin.ca/ As you go through, learn more about the various groups and their ideas, I think you'll see lots of areas that pertain to all Indigenous people and others that are more niche. Indigenous politics are really interesting!! 3.) This one is a perfect example of #2. It's a long story with a lot of crazy twists and turns but the short answer is that we didn't include much about Indigenous rights and privileges while we were drafting our Constitution. It led to a really crazy (and remarkably rare) example of Canadian national unity in which virtually all the bands agreed that that was a bullshit constitution so they demonstrated en masse. The Prime Minister at the time was our current Prime Minister's father. The actual section shouldn't cause too much friction but this is Canada and whenever there is any kind of constitutional question that could have to go to the provinces, everything goes completely to shit. So while the wording is mundane, I'm pretty sure that it will turn into another constitutional crisis just like we have every single time we try to change something. Basically though, section 35 affirms current rights but adds in the provision for new rights to be added through land claims or other processes. So it doesn't box Indigenous affairs in too much while still acknowledging that Canada is founded upon treaties. It starts to get a little more interesting when you start looking into Supreme Court challenges. This is R v. Sparrow: https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/1990/1990canlii104/1990canlii104.html?autocompleteStr=R%20v%20Sparrow&autocompletePos=1 https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/1990/1990canlii104/1990... Check out the list of respondents and consider reading the ruling as well as this case which points out some holes between Federal and provincial jurisdiction: https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abpc/doc/2007/2007abpc278/2007abpc278.html?searchUrlHash=AAAAAAAAAAEAIjE5OTAgQ2FuTElJIDEwNCAoU0NDKV9jcml0aWNpemVkQnkAAAABAA4vMTk5MGNzYy1zY2M0OQE https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abpc/doc/2007/2007abpc278/2007a...

52-6F-62 5y ago

It's not even a secret. Sure we didn't learn the true nature of those schools in our classwork growing up, but it's been called out even in pop culture for the past several decades. Gord Downie even made a film about it. I don't know how many Canadians can reconcile this. I grew up with stories from my mother and her experience on a children's work farm and my grandfather getting snapped up by a Salvation Army work farm (hard to find info, but related: https://www.thestar.com/news/world/ww1/2014/08/15/home_children.html https://www.thestar.com/news/world/ww1/2014/08/15/home_child...) in the late 30's. Children of Scottish and Irish immigrants, mind you—their stories pale in comparison. I know it's easier to just forget the hard things rather than deal with them, but I can't understand why there has been so much resistance to reforming some of those matters. It's hardly as if our elected officials would even have to do much work themselves—plenty of study has gone into our best actions forward. The inertia of it all is grinding.

ipaddr 5y ago
You also have the barnardo boys who were trouble english kids coming during this timeperiod. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thestar.com/amp/news/insight/2015/06/19/a-timeline-of-barnardos-and-other-child-emigration-programs.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thestar.com/amp/news/insigh...

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loceng 5y ago

There's nothing wrong about aligning with the CCP's calls for investigation - however the irony and hypocrisy shouldn't be ignored; the genocide in Canada is also in the past, which doesn't reduce its significance nor the tragedy, however genocide is actively happening in China - the pot calling the kettle black; a form of whataboutism among other tactics.

munk-a 5y ago
I think the Canadian government has enough tact to agree an investigation is warranted while continuing to pressure the CCP on their treatment of minorities. We can do two things at once.
- loceng 5y ago
  Indeed, meanwhile the CCP will ironically use free speech social media platforms to try to shame and guilt Canadians - which I've personally encountered.

908B64B197 5y ago

> The recommendations put forward by the government never go far enough, and frankly, the Indian Act is stain on our country. The current party in power is pretty much responsible for residential schools. Apparently, their current leader thinks crying on camera will make people believe they changed.

honkdaddy 5y ago
Our current leader's _father_ was also the one who penned the disastrous and quickly withdrawn White Paper[1]. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969_White_Paper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969_White_Paper
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  Opening relations with China and Cuba, suspension of civil and constitutional rights during the October crisis and multiculturalism. What a legacy.
  - DuncanKeith 5y ago
    It's very telling that you take an issue with multiculturalism.
    - randompwd 5y ago
      It's very telling that you don't address an issue and just allude to implied wrongness. Hope you're a fan of irony.

f38zf5vdt 5y ago

The scale of death at residential schools was known since at least 1907. > Upon taking the job, Bryce began (in his words) the “systematic collection of health statistics of the several hundred Indian bands scattered over Canada.” In 1907, Bryce released a report drawing attention to the fact that, according to his surveys, roughly one-quarter of all Indigenous children attending residential schools had died from tuberculosis: “of a total of 1537 pupils reported upon nearly 25 per cent are dead, of one school with an absolutely accurate statement, 69 per cent of ex-pupils are dead, and that everywhere the almost invariable cause of death given is tuberculosis.” [1] Bryce, a whistleblower, was defunded and removed from his position over reporting on it. The government moved to stop collecting statistics on infectious diseases in residential schools afterwards. > as a Canadian I would echo Chinas call for a full human rights inquiry at the international level. Not to diminish the tragedy of this, but China's genocide is current and ongoing. Their call for an investigation is an attempt to deflect from that. Canada should be doing something, but not on account of China's urging. That's like Nazi Germany asking for an inquiry into American Slavery. Of course it was wrong and tragic. [1] https://www.cmaj.ca/content/192/9/E223 https://www.cmaj.ca/content/192/9/E223

yumraj 5y ago

> It was one of more than 130 compulsory boarding schools funded by the Canadian government and run by religious authorities during the 19th and 20th Centuries with the aim of assimilating indigenous youth. > The children were often not allowed to speak their language or to practice their culture, and many were mistreated and abused. Sounds eerily similar to what China is doing to the Uighurs.

Kluny 5y ago

Yep, everyone knew. As a society we just decided not to care or ask questions about it for decades. These discoveries are shocking and gruesome but not surprising. I'm pissed about it too.

99_00 5y ago

>I would echo Chinas call for a full human rights inquiry at the international level There isn't a knowledge problem. The issue is well documented. The problem is figuring out what to do and convincing voters and leaders to support it. No government authority is hiding or impending any investigation or discussion about this issue. Residential schools, and the damage they caused are a part of primary education. There have been court cases, testimony, and settlements. What would a human rights inquiry achieve? Is it possible that a hostile foreign power, who is likely right now perpetrating a possibly worse genocide, is using your perfectly justified emotions to manipulate you?

voisin 5y ago

What really makes me shake with rage as a parent is that after these children died, they were not returned to their parents for burial and in many instances the parents were never informed of the death. As a Canadian I am disgusted. I say we start taxing the land Catholic Churches sit on and use 100% of the proceeds to compensate victims of these schools.