6 ms·

My <2 year old can already convincingly fake an accident if he believes that doing so will lead to tasty food. I can imagine thousands of reasons why teenagers

My <2 year old can already convincingly fake an accident if he believes that doing so will lead to tasty food. I can imagine thousands of reasons why teenagers would lie, and maybe they'll come up with new pronouns just to annoy you. Because that's what kids do, they constantly test the limits of acceptable behavior and the limits of your patience. That said, I agree with you that people can choose what gender they feel like and others should accept it as an opinion. But trying to force others to change their behavior to accommodate your opinion very quickly becomes unreasonable. So gender is fine, but pronouns are already a slippery slope. Do you believe a horny teenage guy would be willing to lie and say he identifies as female, if that means he gets to see all of his female classmates naked? It's a tradeoff between people living out their believes and the inconvenience that this causes for others.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago
> Do you believe a horny teenage guy would be willing to lie and say he identifies as female, if that means he gets to see all of his female classmates naked? No, I don't. Living out that type of switch for any length of time is an enormous investment, which will change the way your peers view you forever. It is worthwhile if you're actually trans, but anyone else would be so much better off just browsing the internet. That said, I also think single-gender spaces are in need of an re-think. Same-sex locker rooms inherently assume that people of the same gender can't be attracted to one another, which is simply not the case. So what's the point?
- grips 5y ago
  > Same-sex locker rooms inherently assume that people of the same gender won't be attracted to one another, which is simply not the case. So what's the point? Same sex locker rooms don't only assume people of same gender are not attracted to each other, but also that women are disproportionally exposed to potential sexual abuse from men than the other way around. Protecting women from men specifically is very central to the idea.
  - deleted 5y ago
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  - deleted 5y ago
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- _carbyau_ 5y ago
  I have long wondered why unisex bathrooms are not the standard now. Easily implemented for newly built places, can be retrofitted to some, hard to retrofit for some. But make it a new standard and let time solve the rest.
  - munk-a 5y ago
    Considering that one of the key arguments for gun legalization in the US is self defense - due to the argument that a criminal will find a way to get a gun anyways - is an interesting parallel to the lack of unisex bathrooms. Creeps will find a way to violate the privacy of bathrooms regardless, so why don't we just simplify things for building codes. Granted, I really appreciate urinals and I feel like they might be a casualty of switching over to unisex bathrooms in a lot of cases.
    - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
      I've been in unisex bathrooms with urinals. The people who can't use them just, well, don't use them.
    - johnjj257 5y ago
      Exactly why make everyone wait in one line when half the group goes way faster? I doubt that's coming anytime soon. Would be big dumb and have no real support
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - munk-a 5y ago
        So if I had a series of heavy processing tasks to run - your approach to optimizing them would be to divide the tasks by whether they're above or below the median and then execute each half of tasks on separate equally equipped computers so that half of your computing resources are sitting idle for a good portion of the time?
        5y ago
- nate_meurer 5y ago
  > Living out that type of switch for any length of time... What "switch" are you talking about? The trans-rights movement frowns on requiring trans people to make any sort of "switch" beyond a mere declaration. The whole concept of self-identification is that a man need do nothing more than declare that he's now a woman, and he should promptly have access to spaces and resources reserved for women, such as girls' scholarships, women's bathrooms, women's shelters, women's sports teams and athletics, women's prisons, women's healthcare, women's dating websites, etc. Requiring any sort of physical transition is said to be a violation of trans people's human rights, and thus men-- biological males with penises-- should be allowed access to these spaces by simply "checking a box". Getting self-identification enacted in laws is a primary goal of the most prominent and powerful trans rights lobbies: https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/09/22/gender-recognition-act-reform-trans-transgender-liz-truss-stonewall-mermaids/ https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/09/22/gender-recognition-act...
  - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
    You don't need surgery, but you do need to come out as trans. Everyone around you is going to take such a declaration very seriously, as they well should. Unless someone really really commits, it's going to be terribly obvious who is acting in bad faith. Do you know of any examples when this became a problem in practice?
    - nate_meurer 5y ago
      Yes, and too many examples to adequately list. A small sample: - Lesbian dating sites are facing an influx of men-- biological men with penises-- who have declared that they are lesbian trans-women, and are angry when they don't get any attention from the females on the site. This has become a significant controversy in these communities, because apparently many lesbians on lesbian dating sites are attracted exclusively to other females. Now, I'm sure some of these guys actually are earnest trans-gendered women, who are honestly and in good faith seeking to fully transition. But others are just incels trying a new strategy. - The English and Canadian prison systems are currently dealing with the ramifications of allowing men into women's prisons-- biological men with penises who declare they are women, and demand to be placed into women's prisons. In many cases these guys have assaulted women in prison. These cases are easily googleable. - 18 male candidates from the The Force for Mexico party registered as women for this year's municipal elections in Tlaxcala, in order to get around quotas requiring equal numbers of female candidates. These are men, just straight up men, who declared themselves women just for the registration, and defended by trans rights activists saying that self-identification must be respected with no questions. - This guy: http://www.daniellemuscato.com/ http://www.daniellemuscato.com/. This is a biological male with a penis who has no intention of transitioning (he has a medical excuse it seems). In legal trouble and homeless at times, he demands to be let into women's shelters and placed in detention with women. He works diligently and successfully to folks critical of him banned from twitter. Jessica Yaniv (I know, an easy target, but he's a huge influence in Canada). Etc.
kaitai 5y ago
This comment alone shows that HN suffers deeply from not having many women participants. If y'all had more female commenters, you'd know that you don't get to see a bunch of girls naked in a high school or college locker room. Everyone is so insecure about their bodies that they change in the toilet stalls or take their bra off under their shirt then shimmy the sports bra up under the shirt and hook it then change shirt, or put on a towel to keep it all out of view. Being a teenage girl really sucks in a lot of ways. Of course one would have gender dysphoria if it has a glimmer of a way out of the trap of having to be look perfect, act perfect, get perfect grades, be a perfect friend, be perfectly sexy but not a slut, be perfect but not stuck-up etc that teenage girls face every day. (I understand that teenage boys face another set of pressures that can also be crushing -- as a teenager though you always think that someone else has a more-perfect life or a greater set of freedoms, right?) As for the headline "Teenager finds way to push parental buttons: this never-before-seen act is the fault of liberals" yes, can confirm that toddlers start practicing early.
- fxtentacle 5y ago
  Reading a comment like this I mainly think "wow TV and social media have really f-ed up young people these days". Back in my high school days, we had some bathing events and also shared sauna. One could either voluntary use the nude beach, or walk a bit and go to an outdoor pool with proper changing rooms and dressed people. I think the split was roughly 50/50 and there also wasn't much gender skew. But that was a time before smartphones. When people still walked over to each other's house to hang out.
  - slipframe 5y ago
    When I was a teenager on the swim team in the early 00s, the school had to ban 'deck changing' [changing into or out of your swimsuit in view of the public] because, in a game of one-up[wo]manship, it became overtly sexual with towels falling "by accident." The sort of prudishness described above surprises me.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago

> Do you believe a horny teenage guy would be willing to lie and say he identifies as female, if that means he gets to see all of his female classmates naked? No, I don't. Living out that type of switch for any length of time is an enormous investment, which will change the way your peers view you forever. It is worthwhile if you're actually trans, but anyone else would be so much better off just browsing the internet. That said, I also think single-gender spaces are in need of an re-think. Same-sex locker rooms inherently assume that people of the same gender can't be attracted to one another, which is simply not the case. So what's the point?

grips 5y ago
> Same-sex locker rooms inherently assume that people of the same gender won't be attracted to one another, which is simply not the case. So what's the point? Same sex locker rooms don't only assume people of same gender are not attracted to each other, but also that women are disproportionally exposed to potential sexual abuse from men than the other way around. Protecting women from men specifically is very central to the idea.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
_carbyau_ 5y ago
I have long wondered why unisex bathrooms are not the standard now. Easily implemented for newly built places, can be retrofitted to some, hard to retrofit for some. But make it a new standard and let time solve the rest.
- munk-a 5y ago
  Considering that one of the key arguments for gun legalization in the US is self defense - due to the argument that a criminal will find a way to get a gun anyways - is an interesting parallel to the lack of unisex bathrooms. Creeps will find a way to violate the privacy of bathrooms regardless, so why don't we just simplify things for building codes. Granted, I really appreciate urinals and I feel like they might be a casualty of switching over to unisex bathrooms in a lot of cases.
  - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
    I've been in unisex bathrooms with urinals. The people who can't use them just, well, don't use them.
  - johnjj257 5y ago
    Exactly why make everyone wait in one line when half the group goes way faster? I doubt that's coming anytime soon. Would be big dumb and have no real support
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - munk-a 5y ago
      So if I had a series of heavy processing tasks to run - your approach to optimizing them would be to divide the tasks by whether they're above or below the median and then execute each half of tasks on separate equally equipped computers so that half of your computing resources are sitting idle for a good portion of the time?
      - 5y ago
nate_meurer 5y ago
> Living out that type of switch for any length of time... What "switch" are you talking about? The trans-rights movement frowns on requiring trans people to make any sort of "switch" beyond a mere declaration. The whole concept of self-identification is that a man need do nothing more than declare that he's now a woman, and he should promptly have access to spaces and resources reserved for women, such as girls' scholarships, women's bathrooms, women's shelters, women's sports teams and athletics, women's prisons, women's healthcare, women's dating websites, etc. Requiring any sort of physical transition is said to be a violation of trans people's human rights, and thus men-- biological males with penises-- should be allowed access to these spaces by simply "checking a box". Getting self-identification enacted in laws is a primary goal of the most prominent and powerful trans rights lobbies: https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/09/22/gender-recognition-act-reform-trans-transgender-liz-truss-stonewall-mermaids/ https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/09/22/gender-recognition-act...
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  You don't need surgery, but you do need to come out as trans. Everyone around you is going to take such a declaration very seriously, as they well should. Unless someone really really commits, it's going to be terribly obvious who is acting in bad faith. Do you know of any examples when this became a problem in practice?
  - nate_meurer 5y ago
    Yes, and too many examples to adequately list. A small sample: - Lesbian dating sites are facing an influx of men-- biological men with penises-- who have declared that they are lesbian trans-women, and are angry when they don't get any attention from the females on the site. This has become a significant controversy in these communities, because apparently many lesbians on lesbian dating sites are attracted exclusively to other females. Now, I'm sure some of these guys actually are earnest trans-gendered women, who are honestly and in good faith seeking to fully transition. But others are just incels trying a new strategy. - The English and Canadian prison systems are currently dealing with the ramifications of allowing men into women's prisons-- biological men with penises who declare they are women, and demand to be placed into women's prisons. In many cases these guys have assaulted women in prison. These cases are easily googleable. - 18 male candidates from the The Force for Mexico party registered as women for this year's municipal elections in Tlaxcala, in order to get around quotas requiring equal numbers of female candidates. These are men, just straight up men, who declared themselves women just for the registration, and defended by trans rights activists saying that self-identification must be respected with no questions. - This guy: http://www.daniellemuscato.com/ http://www.daniellemuscato.com/. This is a biological male with a penis who has no intention of transitioning (he has a medical excuse it seems). In legal trouble and homeless at times, he demands to be let into women's shelters and placed in detention with women. He works diligently and successfully to folks critical of him banned from twitter. Jessica Yaniv (I know, an easy target, but he's a huge influence in Canada). Etc.

kaitai 5y ago

This comment alone shows that HN suffers deeply from not having many women participants. If y'all had more female commenters, you'd know that you don't get to see a bunch of girls naked in a high school or college locker room. Everyone is so insecure about their bodies that they change in the toilet stalls or take their bra off under their shirt then shimmy the sports bra up under the shirt and hook it then change shirt, or put on a towel to keep it all out of view. Being a teenage girl really sucks in a lot of ways. Of course one would have gender dysphoria if it has a glimmer of a way out of the trap of having to be look perfect, act perfect, get perfect grades, be a perfect friend, be perfectly sexy but not a slut, be perfect but not stuck-up etc that teenage girls face every day. (I understand that teenage boys face another set of pressures that can also be crushing -- as a teenager though you always think that someone else has a more-perfect life or a greater set of freedoms, right?) As for the headline "Teenager finds way to push parental buttons: this never-before-seen act is the fault of liberals" yes, can confirm that toddlers start practicing early.

fxtentacle 5y ago
Reading a comment like this I mainly think "wow TV and social media have really f-ed up young people these days". Back in my high school days, we had some bathing events and also shared sauna. One could either voluntary use the nude beach, or walk a bit and go to an outdoor pool with proper changing rooms and dressed people. I think the split was roughly 50/50 and there also wasn't much gender skew. But that was a time before smartphones. When people still walked over to each other's house to hang out.
- slipframe 5y ago
  When I was a teenager on the swim team in the early 00s, the school had to ban 'deck changing' [changing into or out of your swimsuit in view of the public] because, in a game of one-up[wo]manship, it became overtly sexual with towels falling "by accident." The sort of prudishness described above surprises me.