3 ms·

A relative of mine taught at a small art college a few years ago. The situation for college students, at least a certain segment, is that people with the trans

A relative of mine taught at a small art college a few years ago. The situation for college students, at least a certain segment, is that people with the transgender identity are far more common than they once were. That's the base reality, not the product of any ideology. And whatever it's point of origin, this reality for these isn't going to change. Now, you can object to various qualities of current gender ideologies and I'm not necessary uncritical myself. But these ideologies also mechanisms for accommodating the ability of transgender people existing minimally in the world. If someone intends to simply discard entirely these processes, they are essentially taking aim at this ability of transgender people to minimally exist. It's active question, to say the least. Transpeople today have a significant and growing chance of being murdered for being trans [1]. The attention put on this by the right wing also has resulted in violence masculine-appearing women. It should be noted that the Economist was talking about debate concerning whether transwomen should be put in men's or in women's prisons. How much do you think that's a matter of survival for these people? I'd love to see the details of gender ideology, the complex choices involved with hormones and surgery, etc debated more deeply but when the "debate" allows the question "should we allow these people to continue living?", you will see people willing to completely shut down discussion. [1] https://www.hrc.org/resources/fatal-violence-against-the-transgender-and-gender-non-conforming-community-in-2021 https://www.hrc.org/resources/fatal-violence-against-the-tra...

neartheplain 5y ago
>The situation for college students, at least a certain segment, is that people with the transgender identity are far more common than they once were. That's the base reality, not the product of any ideology. And whatever it's point of origin, this reality for these isn't going to change. A significant number of people who identity as trans later return to their original gender identity. This is known as "detransitioning:" https://www.thestranger.com/features/2017/06/28/25252342/the-detransitioners-they-were-transgender-until-they-werent https://www.thestranger.com/features/2017/06/28/25252342/the... It's a controversial topic, as many trans people see the existence of detrans people as a threat to the validity of their own identity. For their part, many detrans people resent the medical practitioners who they feel didn't adequately provide council or obtain informed consent before facilitating their transition, sometimes involving expensive, painful, and irreversible medical procedures. Some research also indicates most (!) children who identify as trans abandon this identity post-puberty: https://www.kqed.org/futureofyou/441784/the-controversial-research-on-desistance-in-transgender-youth https://www.kqed.org/futureofyou/441784/the-controversial-re... The Blocked and Reported podcast, which I generally find to be fair-minded and evenhanded, recently interviewed a detrans person who had worked at a SF gender transition clinic. I found their experience illuminating: https://barpodcast.fireside.fm/50 https://barpodcast.fireside.fm/50 The BBC and 60 Minutes have also produced reporting on this issue.
- joe_the_user 5y ago
  A significant number of people who identity as trans later return to their original gender identity. Whatever the percentage of people who chose to do this, that situation doesn't actually change my point - that significant number of trans people exist and their situation is quite threatened. And the way that you (and other) think that this is a "counter argument" is something of a demonstration that people making these points aim to threaten the existence of transpeople, which is why such points get a lot of flak. Edit: Note, some number of people identifying as gay later chose to identify as straight. Is this a counter argument to gay people being a reality? Does that illustrate the problem with your point?
  - neartheplain 5y ago
    >Note, some number of people identifying as gay later chose to identify as straight. Is this a counter argument to gay people being a reality? Does that illustrate the problem with your point? You have misunderstood my point. It was directed specifically at this statement: >And whatever it's point of origin, this reality for these isn't going to change. For some, but not all, trans people this reality does change. They exist, and they also deserve empathy and support.

neartheplain 5y ago

>The situation for college students, at least a certain segment, is that people with the transgender identity are far more common than they once were. That's the base reality, not the product of any ideology. And whatever it's point of origin, this reality for these isn't going to change. A significant number of people who identity as trans later return to their original gender identity. This is known as "detransitioning:" https://www.thestranger.com/features/2017/06/28/25252342/the-detransitioners-they-were-transgender-until-they-werent https://www.thestranger.com/features/2017/06/28/25252342/the... It's a controversial topic, as many trans people see the existence of detrans people as a threat to the validity of their own identity. For their part, many detrans people resent the medical practitioners who they feel didn't adequately provide council or obtain informed consent before facilitating their transition, sometimes involving expensive, painful, and irreversible medical procedures. Some research also indicates most (!) children who identify as trans abandon this identity post-puberty: https://www.kqed.org/futureofyou/441784/the-controversial-research-on-desistance-in-transgender-youth https://www.kqed.org/futureofyou/441784/the-controversial-re... The Blocked and Reported podcast, which I generally find to be fair-minded and evenhanded, recently interviewed a detrans person who had worked at a SF gender transition clinic. I found their experience illuminating: https://barpodcast.fireside.fm/50 https://barpodcast.fireside.fm/50 The BBC and 60 Minutes have also produced reporting on this issue.

joe_the_user 5y ago
A significant number of people who identity as trans later return to their original gender identity. Whatever the percentage of people who chose to do this, that situation doesn't actually change my point - that significant number of trans people exist and their situation is quite threatened. And the way that you (and other) think that this is a "counter argument" is something of a demonstration that people making these points aim to threaten the existence of transpeople, which is why such points get a lot of flak. Edit: Note, some number of people identifying as gay later chose to identify as straight. Is this a counter argument to gay people being a reality? Does that illustrate the problem with your point?
- neartheplain 5y ago
  >Note, some number of people identifying as gay later chose to identify as straight. Is this a counter argument to gay people being a reality? Does that illustrate the problem with your point? You have misunderstood my point. It was directed specifically at this statement: >And whatever it's point of origin, this reality for these isn't going to change. For some, but not all, trans people this reality does change. They exist, and they also deserve empathy and support.