11 ms·

Ask HN: I don't feel like working at all, what to do?

128 points by awayfromhome1 5y ago

I have always been an (a below) average engineer. I was a good student during my school. In college I started getting inferiority complex. From there it has been a downward spiral. I work at FAANG and this is my third job. At second job I was fired, at first I was about to get PIP'd. In my current job I have high and low phases. I don't feel respected at my job and it has had severe effects on my self esteem. I have been anxious/ depressed for around a decade-- I am taking anxiety medicines and planning to start therapy. There are phases where I work with high motivation but it fades easily. I have found I work on my side things with interest but I am not a completer. I complete around 80% of things and then leave them. I am not sure I can keep working this way. Not having a good relationship with my manager (I never feel secured or that they have my back) has made me tired and don't know exactly what to do.

arkitaip 5y ago
Therapy sounds like a good start to untangle what you're experiencing. Also, you work at a FAANG, for any reasonable definition of success, you've made it. You wouldn't be where you are if you weren't good at what you do and vetted by lots of people. Can you get better? Have you done mistakes? Probably, but that doesn't mean you're bad.
- rejectedandsad 5y ago
  > FAANG, for any reasonable definition of success, you've made it Is it? I've never heard that about Amazon, for instance. At Google or Facebook or whatever sure but the fact that they're using the acronym and not the company implies Amazon to me.
  - username90 5y ago
    Amazon is still good enough to all but guarantee a great career. Even if you get fired plenty of lower tier companies would gladly take you in.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    They might be using the acronym for anonymity. If your company finds out that you hate it and want to quit, you will likely find your head is about to roll. I had a close call with this once. Then I learned that the company doesn't really want people to be honest and candid, that's it's just one of the traps they put in their policies.
- geoduck14 5y ago
  > Also, you work at a FAANG, for any reasonable definition of success, you've made it. Somebody here need to hear this: You really REALLY need an identity outside of work. Having "made it" because you work at company X, your boss likes you, you got an award - these things are VERY empty and will contribute to depression. Consider augmenting your life with some of the following: relationships (perhaps with God), hobbies, volunteer work, exercise
- dandigangi 5y ago
  FAANG is not the be all, end all of tech jobs for the record. Great notoriety but it isn't the only big time jobs out there.
  - username90 5y ago
    FAANG means you are all but guaranteed to have a great career. There are better careers and other great careers, but getting into FAANG is enough to have "made it" career wise.
    - endisneigh 5y ago
      ironically this view probably exacerbates the issue the OP has.
    - burntoutfire 5y ago
      Aren't majority of people at FAANG miserable? Working on humongous code bases in a big bureucracy does not sound fun at all.
softwaredoug 5y ago
> There are phases where I work with high motivation but it fades easily. I have found I work on my side things with interest but I am not a completer. I complete around 80% of things and then leave them. I think a therapist/meds or even a coach could provide the best help for you. A therapist should be the ones to diagnose you, but this _ might_ be an attention disorder like ADD. I know really smart people that suffer from this, and I see in them a lot of starting new/interesting things with manic energy and not finishing. However it could also be a sign of other mental health issues, so definitely consult a professional.
corobo 5y ago
> I complete around 80% of things and then leave them This was the primary reason I got checked out for ADHD. Turns out I have ADHD. Might be worth asking a doc for a checkup. I am not diagnosing, just suggesting to rule it out.
- joshxyz 5y ago
  Jeez, everyone must be cautious about comments like this. Before jumping to meds, you guys must check yourselves if you're eating the right kinds of food and exercising consistently. That two alone increases your physical and mental stamina. Those adhd meds are easy to fuck up with (especially if you're someone who lacks self control and discipline already). I'm writing this out as someone who was prescribed those adhd meds before. Edit: but yea feel free to go to doc to rule it out lol. At the end of the day, veggies meat and exercise = good mood and mental clarity. It's lindy as hell, too.
  - celticninja 5y ago
    What does lindy as hell mean? I understand the "as hell" modifier but am not familiar with "lindy"
    - asmithmd1 5y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect The parent is referring to trying something that has been used for centuries before trying something that has been used for years.
    - slumdev 5y ago
      Your guess is as good as mine. Maybe Charles Lindbergh used diet and exercise to improve focus?
  - ModernMech 5y ago
    Your parent wasn't advocating meds, they were advocating a diagnosis. Knowing a diagnosis is half the battle.
MrMan 5y ago
Therapy doesn't work for extrinsic issues like this. You are stressed from the cognitive and emotional effort of accommodating a lot of negative experiences in exchange for success, or money. In my experience when the source of pain is removed, happiness, or at least relative contentment, ensues. Find something to do, rather than someplace to work.
- dandigangi 5y ago
  Respectfully, I disagree. Sort of. You can't solve the environment issue in therapy but it can help you develop different actions you can take and ways to cope with the situation.
whitepaint 5y ago
How is your social life?
TexanFeller 5y ago
Much of what you describe(including comorbid depression and anxiety) is typical of people with ADHD. There are many other potential causes so please talk with a professional for diagnosis rather than assuming.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
dorianmariefr 5y ago
Therapy, changing teams and vacations?
JohnBooty 5y ago
I struggle with this too. It is common. It's not a magic solution, but considering you work at a FAANG you have sufficient $$$/insurance to pursue therapy/coaching. Don't misunderstand. Just finding a good therapist/coach is work. You will probably have to "try" a few and they're not cheap. And then once you find a good fit the real work begins. But, it can be a great investment. Think about it this way. Sounds like you are in your 20s or 30s. You have potentially 30+ years of employment left at $150K+ per year. That is potentially 4 or 5 million dollars, maybe more. So, when considering the costs of coaching/therapy, weigh it against this amount. Remember that million-dollar athletes and even college and high school athletes have all kinds of coaches to help them perform. Why should YOU not deserve it? (Side note: why don't companies invest in coaching for their expensive engineers? Considering the high cost of recruiting and retaining engineers, this seems like it would be a great competitive advantage...) Whether you try coaching, therapy, or some other completely different route I wish you luck. Please know that you are not alone.
- dandigangi 5y ago
  I love what you said here about the money side. Investment in your mental is so worth it and if you have the money, it's definitely worth considering. Edit: It's worth it always regardless of money I should say. But if you have the means, you definitely should.
- creativeembassy 5y ago
  I loved this answer, and I struggle the same way. When you said > why don't companies invest in coaching for their expensive engineers? This is what makes a great manager, on the work side of things. Someone who sees the potential in other people and has the ability to unlock it, and doesn't settle for simply managing time and tasks. But for clarification, do you mean a third-party that can also help coach things like work-life balance? Because I could see a lot of value in that. I'm wondering now if I should find one for myself...
  - JohnBooty 5y ago
    I'm no expert at all so please understand this is just the rambling of one person who's been in the trenches for a while... Someone who sees the potential in other people and has the ability to unlock it, and doesn't settle for simply managing time and tasks. But for clarification, do you mean a third-party that can also help coach things like work-life balance? Yeah, realistically I think it's a third-party thing. I know a lot of therapists who specialize in ADHD refer to themselves as coaches. Because ADHD isn't really "cured"; it's just sort of managed and it seems to pair pretty well with having a third party coach. I'm not sure if this is common with other behavioral health issues. The best managers do some level of this and really can bring the best out of individuals. But finding a manager who can run a department, interface with the rest of the business, and function as something of an individual coach... that's some real unicorn territory. Finding one is great but their rarity means we should probably never count on having one around. It's almost like finding somebody who's good at MMA, plays the violin, and is a decent watercolor artist. It is obviously possible but they're such disparate skills. (side note: executive coaching definitely is a thing. It is not uncommon for people/companies to invest in this sort of thing.)
goalieca 5y ago
Do you love programming? Do you like your work culture and colleagues? Is it possible you are overworked as in burnout? There have been many discussions here recently about taking time off to rediscover your passion or just plain satisfaction. Going back over the decade, there were discussions here around people switching careers entirely (wood working, ski pro, ...)
dandigangi 5y ago
Hey! I know this feeling well. I'm bipolar 2 + ADHD and over the past few years I've drifted more heavily into the depression side. A few thoughts to share: 1) Definitely consider meds. They are not a true answer in a sense but they help you get back to homeostasis so you can rebuild yourself. Current regiment for me is Welbutrin 300mg (mood stabilizer, anxiety), Adderal 15mg XR (ADHD), Lamotrigine (bipolar). 2) Therapy is a recent change for me but I am finding it helpful. With my type A personality, I've decided that a cognitive behavioral therapist made sense to me as its more action oriented than just talking w/ someone. We setup tangible todos, monitor week to week, and spend time talking. One interesting thing in particular is working on coping methods on issues that don't have an immediate solution. Where I place my energy effectively makes a big difference. 3) As a manager, I have to say that a poor relationship w/ a manager is draining to say the least. A friend at Netflix recently made a major shift from a UI team to API over this. Have you looked into making a move internally or considered leaving? Being at FAANG, you have high potential to make a move at least horizontally. 4) It's helpful to identify triggers that give you feelings of depression or other bad feelings. It could be as simple as staying away from caffeine or lowering interactions with a particular person. Like your manager. 5) Easier said than done but this isn't an uncommon feeling for many. You're surrounded by talented people so imposter syndrome is not uncommon. I will bet 100% that you are better than you may realize. 6a) This one used to hurt to admit but not anymore. I am an average engineer at best. You start to realize later than it doesn't make as much of a difference as you'd think. Can you solve problems? Can you get to the finish line on your work and deliver consistently? Are you surrounded by people who can support you in growth? Your solutions don't have to be perfect as long as the support system and processes are there to create bumpers around you. Maybe you want to get to staff engineer but that is a decision and path you have to figure out. If you truly want to go deep, you're going to have to practice and grow. There is so many other options outside of that though. 6b) It can be tough to get to the finish line. Personally I've found that I need to prioritize and get my TODO list down to the most essential and dedicate my time to nothing but one activity at a time. With the addition of ADHD I bounce around a lot and fall into the same issue. Try to force your time into one activity in spurts and don't move onto until you get to the end. (Spurts are important so you don't burn out as you're already working to get to completion and it has been difficult.) 7) Take a break! Go burn some PTO. Get away from the computer. My takeaway is that your environment is where this is most definitely stemming from. I highly suggest looking at a move. Do it for yourself. You shouldn't have to feel like this. Hope this helps in some way. I wish you the all the best. It can get better. ps Don't let the stigma of mental health issues drive you away from getting help. The industry needs to be so much better about this.
ivrrimum 5y ago
It's the weponized AI, it takes away the power of will!
dougmwne 5y ago
Start by talking with someone. To me it sounds like there may be some emotions at the root of how you are relating with work. Potentially some official diagnosis as well, but no one here can tell you that. You could have a range of treatment options ranging from talking it out to meds. There are a lot of things that could help.
karanbhangui 5y ago
Have you considered switching to product management? And, if you haven't already, developing some hobbies/active social life outside of work?
tomp 5y ago
> In college I started getting inferiority complex. > I never feel secured or that they have my back 3 good things: (1) your biggest problem is yourself (which means it’s in your control, possible to change), (2) you’re at least partially aware of that, and (3) you’re obviously good enough to get hired at FAANG so probably not actually “below average”. Of course, changing your mindset is hard… the first step is knowing it’s possible. The second step is, trying out all the well-known techniques (meditation, equanimity, gratitude, working out, abundance mentality, …) and seeing what works.
- 3np 5y ago
  The third, and sometimes most difficult, step is to persist doing what one knows wirks.
- popcornminute 5y ago
  (1) your biggest problem is yourself (which means it’s in your control, possible to change) Not in your control, and can't change, hence the question. A common and dangerous trap. "I can change" may be as treacherous an approach as "say no to drugs". If we locked up all the people that failed to change, our prisons would be full(er). I'd be there too. Now with the modified premise that "you can't change", "your biggest problem is yourself" becomes horrible news. It's the one thing you can't solve. But that's where many people find themselves. But if you can't change, then what? This spares you of all the self-criticims, self-help, self-motivation, and can help you reframe your narrative: - A therapist doesn't help you "change". You're giving yourself someone to talk to. You're paying someone friendly, that wants to be your friend, has a lot of knowledge about struggling people, and can give you drugs. That's a great deal for anyone who can afford it. - Drugs don't change you. They medicate you. If you take asprin for a headache, nothing about you changed apart from a less aching head. Just talking this way will make you feel better already, and it helps that they're true. I mentioned therapy and drugs because they work and are also mentioned by many other comments. But without "changing yourself" there is a ton you can do. What you have control over and can change are your people, your relationships with your people, your location, your job, how you spend your time, how you spend your money, what you eat, etc, etc. If you insist people can change, okay, but you have to agree changing these things is far easier than changing people. It's easier to change the relationship with your manager or even replacing him than "changing" your manager. Same applies with yourself. But the best part is, if you do all these things, you will feel better. You will change. You're one with all of these things. Because, ultimately, that's all you is.
imapeopleperson 5y ago
Move to a much smaller company where you will be valued more.
- jiofih 5y ago
  This is not necessarily true. Well-being depends almost fully on your team and immediate manager which will be roughly the same size in both. Having a small group might even exacerbate anxiety, larger companies give you the advantage of easily changing teams when it’s not working.
tjxp 5y ago
I've had similar problems. Turns out my vitamin B12 and D levels were extremely low. Found out from a blood test. I get B12 shots now and take vitamin D daily. You might want to go to your doctor and get that checked up on.
__stice 5y ago
My
TrackerFF 5y ago
What motivates you? What do you actually enjoy doing?
f00zz 5y ago
Outsource your job to me, I'll take 50% of your FAANG salary
- burntoutfire 5y ago
  Impossible, a big part of the job is showing up at meetings.
jmcgough 5y ago
Therapy and a good psychiatrist is a great first step. When you have work issues, anxiety, and other things going on it can really be hard to tease out what's the cause and what's the effect. A good therapist can help you figure this out, and give you better coping strategies. It took me years to figure it out but I struggled to be consistently productive because of a mix of untreated insomnia, adhd and bipolar 2. What made the difference for me was really analyzing my symptoms, seeking out goal/skills-oriented therapist (a PsyD not a MFT), and not giving up after the first psych med or two didn't work. I've seen people who really lack the awareness to know that they're underperforming, or the willpower to try to fix it and get help. Thankfully you don't seem to be one of those people. Also, I'm going to echo everyone and say that you should probably get screened for ADHD. With ADHD it's very common for an inability to focus -> frustration that you can't get things done as fast as you should be -> depression/anxiety. > There are phases where I work with high motivation but it fades easily. I have found I work on my side things with interest but I am not a completer. I complete around 80% of things and then leave them. Probably describes most of HN so don't feel too bad about that haha.
- komodo 5y ago
  I'm concerned about becoming dependent on medications I don't need. I'm worried that if I go to any sort of medical professional they will succumb to "if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail" and I will end up on some sort of meds that I don't need. I just have this impression that 80% of people could walk into any psychiatrist's office, describe their experiences, and walk out with a prescription or three. I'd like it if someone could convince me that these are not legitimate concerns.
  - jmcgough 5y ago
    I'd actually agree with you there. If you walk into a psychiatrist's office and tell them you're having depression/anxiety, you'll leave with a script for an SSRI. They exist to write prescriptions and don't have the time to get a holistic view of you as a person, to figure out what's causing your symptoms. If you're worried about unnecessary medications (the majority of which won't make you dependent or have long-term side effects), you can always start with a good therapist (I recommended a PhD or PsyD). But for some people, they're struggling enough and miserable enough that it makes sense to try psych meds early and see what helps.
sillysaurusx 5y ago
My advice for you, is that you need to be careful about which advice you follow in this thread. Every one of these people has a different experience. Many of them feel the same as you do, and they think they know something that helps them. But what helps them, might not help you. Your goal is a breadth-first search -- try as many things as possible, and quickly discard the ones that don't work. Most of the advice won't work. Okay? That's the advice I have for you, and in my opinion is the #1 thing you need to recognize. Your job here, is to find the one that will. And the only way to do that, unfortunately, is to actually do the advice that actually works. It took a long, long time for me to find out what that was for me. And what it was for me, probably isn't going to be that for others. It's prozac and adderall for me. But I also know people who are convinced adderall is helping them –– but they are fooling themselves, and the result is sometimes destructive. I've also heard of people that take prozac, and then bad things happen. I'm not sure what "bad things," but I know that there are people who take prozac, followed by bad things. So if I said, "What works for me is prozac and adderall," and you ran off and did those, there's a chance that it could be true for you too. But there's a higher chance that one of them and something else might help you. There's also a chance that both might hurt you. That's true for every single reply in this comment section. My goal here is to warn you, not to advise you. The flip side of that is, there's very likely something here that will help you. I needed some help, for a long time. It wasn't until prozac, that I actually got it. Because I didn't know that a "magic solution" existed for me personally. I had to (thankfully) stumble across that. So, try lots of things. Discard things that don't work. Repeat.
markus_zhang 5y ago
Maybe just grab as much money as you can and retire early. All work are like that unless you work for yourself, but then you will worry about other things.
jmartrican 5y ago
Try a a kinder environment (at a smaller company) where your skills can grow. Also maybe a mentor. This reminds me of a quote about how MIT has a way of turning physicists into lawyers. What it means is that people who started school trying to be physicists, got overwhelmed with competition at MIT and end up reverting to law school after graduation because their confidence in physics was diminished. Where if they went to a regular school, their skills (and confidence) would have grown.
- paul80808 5y ago
  Can't agree more. I've had similar experiences in a competitive environment with bad management. I moved from a small consulting firm where I was top performing and very happy, to a large hierarchical / competitive office where I lost a lot of confidence. Eventually I left and found a new job in a much better team and it made a world of difference.
- slumdev 5y ago
  I always heard that medicine was the fallback for the students who couldn't hack it as physicists.
  - quickthrower2 5y ago
    Odd comment because 'hack it' has multiple dimensions. If you can't 'hack' physics (I correlate this with very high IQ, stoic commitment to research) it doesn't mean you'd hack medicine (Which needs decent IQ, amazing memory/recall and very good interpersonal and communication skills, and ability to handle stress, blood and dead bodies).
    - slumdev 5y ago
      Oh, it's definitely not the case anymore. Anecdotes about students in competitive disciplines falling back on medicine are usually multiple decades old. Today, there's no such thing as medicine-as-a-fallback. If you aren't solidly and deliberately premed for several years, building relationships with people who can write strong LORs, doing and documenting volunteering hours, and getting everything else in order, you don't stand a chance at admission to a competitive school.
Dumblydorr 5y ago
Finishing 80% of things isn't being 80% complete. The 80-20 rule tells us that it takes 80% of the time to finish the last 20% of a project. So ask yourself, are you afraid of challenge? Is it hard for you to get through hard tasks? Do you avoid that work, the tricky debugging or the digging through docs for esoteric facts? If so, I get it, that's my tendency as well. The only method I found was to take breaks and think about it in a dissociative state, then I also try to live with boredom. I don't see boredom or frustration as enemies, they are like an itch I can't give in to, because scratching a bug bite makes it even itchier. To practically improve this way, meditation gave me that extra dose of willpower to last through boredom. meditation simply teaches you to passively observe, it keeps your emotions in check, if you practice enough.
- dandigangi 5y ago
  Good ole 80/20 rule
- La1n 5y ago
  >The 80-20 rule tells us that it takes 80% of the time to finish the last 20% of a project No, it's not necessarily the last. Just that 20% of the work in total will take approximately 80% of the time. Tasks/projects aren't "sorted".
wly_cdgr 5y ago
Move to an early-stage startup with a highly technical founder so you have lots of hard, no-bullshit deadlines. Basically, put yourself in an environment that forces you to focus. You will then do better work and this will feed back to improve your self esteem and motivation Also (or instead, if you are not financially/emotionally ready to take the huge leap above), set aside time to practice finishing as a skill independent of project / area of endeavor. I recommend video games with achievements as they have a more objective finish point than most other things you could do for this. Also they are fun and will make you smarter. Start with short, easy ones that have no hidden or notoriously difficult trophies and just focus on building a record of 100% completions. You can then draw on this experience for confidence and determination to help you finish work and personal projects
- rytis 5y ago
  I'm not so sure this is a good idea, I'd even say this is quite dangerous. Shock therapy for someone with anxiety and depression might backfire big time. They are anxious already, and you're suggesting going and joining a company that may put a lot of stress and cause burn out?..
  - wly_cdgr 5y ago
    It's a bit risky, but I dunno that it's any riskier than continuing down a path that has led to bad results and bad feelings over many years and across three different companies At least they should dip their toes in and try a B/C/D stage startup. I just think you get more useful info faster when you make a bigger change
okareaman 5y ago
> a downward spiral > I have high and low phases > I have been anxious/ depressed for around a decade > There are phases where I work with high motivation but it fades easily I have bipolar disorder so the above sentences caught my attention. The thing about bipolar is that it is hard to diagnose. I wasted 10's of thousands of dollars on in appropriate therapies like SSRI's and Ativan and just general talk therapy. The low phases often masquerade as anxiety depression and the high phases can look like borderline personality disorder or even schizophrenia. Also, drug and alcohol abuse can make it impossible to get a correct diagnosis. I got my life back and became productive once I was properly diagnosed and given a med that worked for me (Quetiapine) I also quit alcohol and drugs (except moderate amount of coffee) I recommend seeing a psychiatrist and relating your moods and activities honestly and completely and see if bipolar rings true.
- dandigangi 5y ago
  Same here. This instant I saw that I thought BP. Have it also. Sounds like we've gone through some similar experience of pulling out of a spiral. My therapist told me I should back off on caffeine but I don't want to. Haha
  - okareaman 5y ago
    I've learned to recognize when I am manic so I cut out the coffee and take extra meds. I'm usually balanced out again after a good night's sleep. I can't drink energy drinks without getting manic. My mania is useful for coming up with ideas and getting stuff done. Like Greta Thunburg and her autism, my mania is my superpower. However, I'm scared to death of having suicidal depression again. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.
- wayoutthere 5y ago
  Yeah, same. One of the hallmarks of bipolar is that the person is largely oblivious to its existence. And I find it interesting we had the same reaction re: alcohol and drugs. For me, during the low periods I become apathetic and overall have very little energy. My mood is actually pretty consistent now that I’m medicated (lamotrigine). My high phases are more hypomanic which is actually super productive if I can manage the anxiety that usually accompanies it.
aetherspawn 5y ago
Work part time. Been doing it a decade, never going back.
buildingmateri 5y ago
Good chance you have 200k+ saved. Stop working for a while. Travel, live somewhere new. Start learning about things outside of software... Pursue projects for anything that moves you regardless of whether you think you'd be good at it or not. Do that for a few years and see where life goes. Life is too precious not to live it, not to explore what could be, esp when current path becomes unbearable.
visarga 5y ago
For me this feeling comes when I am under deadline or just being micromanaged. The fix is to start a play project to reignite my passion. Play more and work less to get your juices flowing again. Also, read about what people are working on, eventually someone will trigger you into passion mode.
leesec 5y ago
Save some money and switch careers? Nothing in physics says you have to stay in a field you don't like your whole life. Lots of places are hiring, try something outside?
kruxigt 5y ago
Have you checked your testosterone level?
gorjusborg 5y ago
Bank money if you can. It will give you time to search around in absence of a job, if it comes to that. Consider leaving FAANG behind. It may not be you, it could be them. If you want to stay in tech there are other companies that would salivate over your resume. Also, expectations could be lower performance-wise. Try new things. I know it sounds simple, but doing the same thing over and over is not likely to help if things are not going well.
shoto_io 5y ago
It might be a matter of perspective? How many devs are there in the world? How many would die to work at a FAANG?
mtberatwork 5y ago
Sounds like you are experiencing burnout. What you are describing is not atypical, happens to the best of us. What do you enjoy doing outside of work? Are you taking time off to unwind? A job is a means to an end. Take some time off to do things for yourself. Don't let your job define who you are.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
silicon2401 5y ago
Not once in my life have I ever felt a need or desire to work. I don't assign value or meaning to "work", I don't need work to find personal fulfillment, I don't need work to get social interaction and meet people, and I don't need work to learn new skills and grow. I took a month off between jobs once and it was amazing: I woke up at 4am, worked out a ton, studied my personal interests, and spent a ton of time socializing and enjoying my hobbies. I can't relate at all to the people who say you'll get bored of retirement or that life has no meaning without work. So my goal is to retire ASAP because I know retirement is the life I'll thrive under. You should aim for that in the long term and in the short term, find a new job. FAANG companies have horrible work cultures. There are plenty of software jobs that are laid back and easy-going, and finding a new job is also a chance at a better manager.
- giantg2 5y ago
  "There are plenty of software jobs that are laid back and easy-going" Please tell me where I can find one of these. I've never seen it. Every place wants you to work extra hours and squeeze as much as they can out of you.
  - silicon2401 5y ago
    Sadly there's no live database (or maybe that's good because otherwise the jobs would get snatched up before you could blink). All I can say is look for jobs that value work-life balance. It's worked well for me so far.
    - giantg2 5y ago
      My company says that sort of stuff. When you dig deeper, it's kind of a lie. They constantly want things faster, meaning more hours the workers have to put in during a shorter time.
      - silicon2401 5y ago
        Well, I didn't say "look for companies that say they value work life balance", I said "look for companies that value work life balance". Of course anybody can say anything to sucker us in. The key is to learn how to identify a company that will lie to keep you interested (e.g. Amazon, based on personal experience when a recruiter assured me that people usually work 40h weeks) and how to identify a company that actually values your personal time.
philonoist 5y ago
Get advice from doctor about taking Bupropion. Get diagnosed. It is not a taboo anymore.
slumdev 5y ago
Go work for a non-tech Fortune 500. Expectations are low, and your success will depend much more on soft skills than any other factor. Your TC will be cut in half (or worse), but your base might not suffer as much as you think, as long as you negotiate well. If you find that you can't stand the low expectations and slow pace, you can always go back to tech. But it might help to spend a few years in a low-performance environment and find meaning outside of work.
imvetri 5y ago
I typed a lot. It has no conclusion or suggestion. Just leaving it here. high five buddy! Don't focus to get more work on your head. Try to find a spot in the team where dependency on you will be less. Don't stress yourself. It will be hard, sleepless nights, panic attack in the morning If I wake up early, what I do, I oversleep and work in drowsiness. And then I open outlook, teams, meetings, panic attack starts. A clear head becomes a turbulent head and doesn't know what he is talking about. I know I'm above average, you are also above average. It's mostly people that disturbs the mind. What worked for me in the past - I wanted to get my life under my control. Moved nearby my office, setup a good routine, removed distractions, got into fitness, veggies, fruits, threw away mobile, I touch computer only at work. I stopped speaking or letting anyone to waste my time at office. I became a loner, but I was focussed. I got better, started a side project, never overdid anything and practiced meditation. My only goal was to keep mind occupied and do not loose thoughts. It worked pretty well. And everyday routine was boosting my energy levels up and up. but one day It got ruined. Family and relatives missed me so I started spending and sacrificing my interests for them. Mind went back to same old same old dancing head phones. I still miss and in fact I'm living in past and in my present reality I know for sure I'm really not present. I really have no clue how I'm even surviving work / life but I need to earn to provide for my mom and my sister. That's the only reason I have. But even that I'll forget. The only reason I spoke this much is that, I feel the same. I was good in my school, I liked math and science. College was a new world. It started fine but something went upside down. Then I was excited about work, for first 3-4 years it was exciting and fun, then interests and motivation went down. Throughout my life I used to find reasons why I have memory loss, why I cant pay any attention, trying to find out answers or cures, and most of the time I'll be lost in a cooked up reality believing in some non-sense that keeps me happy at that moment but serves no purpose to survive in the world. Recently I have started thinking that's how the world is. Friends moved on,
locallost 5y ago
I struggle with similar things, and I have no good advice. Now that that's out of the way, I did think about it a lot in recent years, and I came to the conclusion things become unbearable when too many things are off at the same time. When I was younger the work was on its own motivating enough, but this is no longer the case because I don't do anything really interesting. Now when I come to work already unhappy, and on top of that know the only way to solve a problem is to dig through crappy code for three days, it becomes the straw that broke the camel's back. Things I work on and try to advise my kids, even though it's hard for me is: don't worry too much and just do it (whatever it is). We get better insights into things when we do them, so we get better. I don't really have an inferiority complex, but I did waste a lot of time in the past polishing things because I was worried what people might think. I wanted it to be great! But this doesn't work because it takes too much time, and somebody will always find a reason to criticize because it's not how they would do it. So it's like a double nothing. I also notice this is quite prevalent in this "industry" (although it's quite a wide spectrum, I am no way near a FAANG). It's made worse by a lot of people who suffer abuse (being looked down upon etc) and then solve it by abusing other people in similar ways. There are a lot of people who are arrogant and scared at the same time. Lastly, in my case at least, I'm just not really that interested in the job anymore, above all not the grind. But it's a respected and well paid profession, so it's difficult to let go. It also became kind of a part of my identity, so if I walk away, what is left of me?
taylodl 5y ago
> I am taking anxiety medicines and planning to start therapy Please don't plan on starting therapy, get it started now! Also, get a full physical from your doctor - there could be underlying medical issues causing these problems. Seriously, I've known people with these kinds of issues and a combination of medical therapy (they had a vitamin D deficiency and their brain chemicals weren't in the right balance) and therapy completely turned their life around. It wasn't easy though, especially at the outset. If the problem is you have brain chemicals out of whack I'd love to tell you that they'd be able to easily fix it but they can't. What they're going to do is try different things and see what works. It can be frustrating and you may think your doctors are idiots during this process - but realize that's today's state-of-the-art. Remember, you're worth the effort to get to the bottom of this and get it turned around. Get the help you need and good luck!
nickd2001 5y ago
Seems to me employers need to be more understanding that depression and other mental health issues are suffered by many people and are simply part of life. Sounds like maybe you need to do some of the standard stuff to fight depression (e:g taking exercise, socialising, maybe take up a sport to combine the two) and look for a kinder employer. If your output/productivity isn't up to par at the moment, find a job where it pays less and they expect less, maybe even a lower grade, at least for the short-term. Because it feels a lot better to be performing well on a lower grade than struggling on a higher one. All the best :)
Larx-3 5y ago
It's a real possibility you suffer from MDD. Do you struggle to get up in the morning? Oversleep? Depression and anxiety often manifests themselves differently in people but can lead to lower motivation, and can cause attention difficulties. I suggest finding a Psychologist and trying some therapy (CBT/DBT). If your already on anxiety medications, I'd be careful taking those. You should only take them when your anxiety is at the very highest in low doses. Benzos are often over-prescribed and can be abused and can lead to physical dependence. A Psychiatrist will try prescribing all sorts of medications if they diagnose you with depression or ADHD, and you should be skeptical. You can also try (with therapy) other more non-invasive treatments like getting good exercise (cardio), sunlight (vitamin-D). There are other things that are more experimental too like TMS, Ketamine, etc. Sleep and diet hygiene (in addition to exercise) are always important. After years of treatment-resistant depression and being prescribed all sorts of medications (SSRIs, even a low-dose anti-psychotic at one point), I did a bout round of TMS and it really helped me.
JohnDeHope 5y ago
Hyakujo, the Chinese Zen master, used to labor with his pupils even at the age of eighty, trimming the gardens, cleaning the grounds, and pruning the trees. The pupils felt sorry to see the old teacher working so hard, but they knew he would not listen to their advice to stop, so they hid away his tools. That day the master did not eat. The next day he did not eat, nor the next. “He may be angry because we have hidden his tools,” the pupils surmised. “We had better put them back.” The day they did, the teacher worked and ate the same as before. In the evening he instructed them: “No work, no food.”
ChrisArchitect 5y ago
whole related thread on this yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27593462 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27593462
ChrisArchitect 5y ago
Maybe this related: 1 month ago discussion: Advices for Burnout and Depression https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27226918 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27226918
gsharm 5y ago
Structure your week. Set weekly goals. Set things up so that you assign weekends free to relax/do fun stuff - so they feel like actual week ends. This enables you to focus on Mon-Thurs without feeling hopeless, as your body/mind know that good time is coming later in the week. It avoids the feeling of just being aimlessly lost in time. It's important to ensure your mind/body feel there is light at the end of the tunnel, not just at the macro but micro (days, weeks) level too.
- EricE 5y ago
  And if weekly goals are overwhelming, start small. The pomodoro technique is a great way to start small with time management and get some of those positive "end of the tunnel" endorphin rewards. Build from there.
seasily 5y ago
Therapy and medicine won't help. Usually the answers are: clean up the negative people around you (fire that person as your boss, network and take tons of other interviews sufficient to move or have a fallback option so you worry less), and branch out on your actual life (travel more, do something new, etc.) You could also accept that Faangs are full of slackers and coasters--stop tying your self-esteem to your work or your boss (who is actually your adversary, squeezing as much work from you for the lowest price). Do enough to be of interest to other teams there, have a few references and savings and just assume you will be let go, and focus on improving your life and your next opportunity.
- jkmcf 5y ago
  A behavioral psychologist might be able to help. They have a big bag of tricks and can help provide some accountability.
CountDrewku 5y ago
Contrary to what everyone else in this thread says, I think you're just normal. This idea that you should always have "high" phases is asinine. Obviously, if you're low all the time get help but when you're working 40+ hours a week at the same job your entire life to put money in the pockets of someone else's business; you're going to get tired of it and not be motivated all the time. Take all these recommendations to get meds and comments about you having a mental illness with a grain of salt. Another suggestion would be to stop placing so much importance on your job. Find other hobbies. Most people work to make a money, bonus points if you find it to be your passion but I don't think that's the norm. Accept that there will be days where you're just going through the motions.
Tarucho 5y ago
> I have been anxious/depressed for around a decade I guess your first step is to get this sorted with specialists. There is no point in asking what to do with your job when you don´t feel like working at all.
anm89 5y ago
I think it depends on what your finances are like. You can make a lifetime equivalent salary at a few years at a FAANG. So you are probably within a few years of comfortably FIREing if that is your goal.
trent1971 5y ago
Before you start any therapy you should try to understand yourself, by tracking yourself, as in the quantified self. You work at a FAANG so you could probably develop your own tools to do this. Track your mood, your sleep habits, exercise, activity, meals, caffeine intake, work productivity, social interactions, medications, etc. Then look and find insights into how these relate to your work attitude. This project might in itself give you motivation and who knows, maybe you can develop your own startup to build this as a product
Saleshooman 5y ago
I am not exactly sure if/how this will help. But I am a 26 year old sales guy, who is in a similar boat (I wouldn't say I am depressed but have this deep intense feeling of "something is missing" I need to do more. I think I have had a mixed career, My first job I was PIP'd and I voluntarily left soon after. My second job I was the company's number 1 salesperson (Out of 60) and made a ton of money, I again soon left after- because "Something" was missing. My third job was so-so at best and again I felt something... On my 4th Job now, doing great by all respects, and yet I am interviewing for another job (Scratching my head on why).... The only rational explanation I have found is I love change... if you have savings and a good relationship with family/GF, I think a good idea might be to take some time off and spend sometime away from it all to think about what "really matters" and then come back and find your next path...
risk000 5y ago
A lot of this boils down to emotions, which are not being fully processed in your system. When you recognize a strong feeling within yourself, you can work with it to find a balance in the following way. Find the 'negative' emotion. Now enter a meditative state. Call up the emotion into your awareness - use imagery, imagination, sensing, whatever helps. Once you have a hold on the emotion, amplify it - seek to feel it in your entire being. Whether its sadness, fear, not being appreciated - amplify the feeling until it fills every cell of your body. Do this for a few seconds only, until it feels like the feeling begins to change or subside. (It can take as few as 3 or 5 seconds, or much longer, depending). The goal is to feel the feeling as intensely as you can (without hurting yourself!). Doing this will shift it! Then, seek to find the opposite feeling. Ask yourself, what is the opposite feeling? Feeling grateful for your job? What does that feel like? Imagine yourself feeling this feeling. Imagine a world-scenario that would trigger this feeling. Visualize yourself in a situation which triggers this opposite feeling. Then, amplify that feeling, and feel it in every cell of your body, for a few seconds. This will completely shift your experience of the emotion and your viewpoint on the relevant issue/topic/area/domain in which the emotion is being triggered. It's a very effective technique. Wishing you good things.
greatwhitenorth 5y ago
Try these three things - 1. Strength training with dumb bells/machines. If you can't go to the gym, buy the dumbbells and do squats, etc.. Form is important. 2. If you're male, go on nofap. You may not believe it but go on nofap for a month and you will see the difference. If it works for you, do it permanently. 3. 8 hours of sleep. These should automatically improve your focus/motivation and solve depression/anxiety.
muzani 5y ago
This sounds like something you should see a therapist for. I got poor grades in university and they forced me to see a counselor, one from the mental health side, one of them my professors. Does FAANG do something like this? I've seen smaller companies offer mental health support and I hear Google would promote meditation. The stress level in FAANG has to be pretty high, with most of it self-inflicted.
megameter 5y ago
There are basically three forms of working a job: 1. Shuffling around credit between people and projects 2. "Getting by" enough to not be fired 3. Studying something of interest through the work At competitive companies it's a lot of the first - everyone's looking for a way to take credit, which means there's a lot of performance anxiety and destructive power plays. Companies that are "coasting" see more of the second type, and this is roughly where you are in terms of mindset. It may be a dead end, but you will get paid for a while; of course this clashes if you are in a competitive team. But if the job involves an implict need to absorb stress or physical exertion, it can feel like plenty enough to get by. But it's the third that is the only one that has some innate sense of contentment, and is always tied to those "dream jobs" and "dream projects" people seem to have, and the kind of drive that motivates high achieviment and immense technical ability. In a lot of cases it has to come from within; teams lacking leadership in this respect fall into coasting or bickering behavior, and society as a whole defaults to total indifference. So it can easily happen that you feel a purpose for a few years, then fall down for a while, then rediscover yourself. But you have to continuously have that purpose in mind to not get overly swept up in events. It's almost certainly the case that you have something you want to study more deeply, and if you set yourself up to go down that path you would start to excel within months without feeling difficulty. But knowing it means knowing yourself and doing some deconstruction of the path you've followed so far. School-to-FAANG is a kind of life script, and all life scripts have a lack of "happily ever after" closure to them. How do you do that deconstruction? There's no definite way, but it's a question that guides a lot of philosophy around virtue ethics and self development. So one way to go about this would be to get philosophical for a while, take a class, read some classics. Another is simply to push yourself a little to get out of your comfort zones and try out things you think you will struggle with. One of my favorite methods is simply to draw on the energy of high achievers in various fields and their biographies, interviews, etc. Live streams, by being so encompassing for long periods, can reveal a lot of underlying drive, attitude, etc. So I will often turn to gaming streams to see some of that.
ykevinator3 5y ago
I think you need to find something you love. Maybe open a restaurant. Work is natural and fulfilling if you like what you do. You don't have to be an engineer. We are all just carbon, there is no god, this is your only life. It's not a contest. Find something you love. It's not work you don't feel like doing, it's this work. There is work out there that you can love you just have to find it.
- saaaaaam 5y ago
  Maybe open a restaurant. I get - loosely - what you are saying. I loosely applaud your sentiment. But at the same time I am somewhat gobsmacked by how glib it is. I worked in the restaurant trade. I have many friends who still do. It is tough, it is graft, you will feel under appreciated and it requires a lot of money and talent and great people to make it work. So yes: open a restaurant. If you’ve not worked in the restaurant trade it’s a great way to feel awful and lose a lot of money quickly. Equally, open a book store. Or a blacksmith’s. Or a tailor. Or dog sitter. Or a hedge fund. Or a niche thermoplastics engineering consultancy. All of these things could fulfil you more, and you’ll hire a bunch of people who do the bulk of the work apart from the bit that matters. But equally they could make everything worse.
giantg2 5y ago
This sounds a lot like me. Only I've been at the same non-FAANG company for 9 years, and I actually am average (non-FAANG, some years I've gotten bad reviews, been told I'm "slow" a couple times), and haven't been diagnosed/medicated with anything. I would just stay until you get fired. You're aren't going to get paid more somewhere else, right? Maybe start looking into FIRE. That way you can quit sooner, or get to a point where you don't care if you're fired. On a side note, how did you get almost PIP'd and then fired and still get hired by FAANG? I feel like if I get fired from my job that I won't be able to find another one unless I take an entry level position for even less pay.
amerkhalid 5y ago
As others have said that therapy might be a good option. I just want to add that since you work at FAANG, you should have access to EAP for free. And you can talk with a few therapist before deciding to stick with one.
ssss11 5y ago
Don’t give up just yet. I’ve had ups and downs at different companies, different levels of seniority, different cultures, different quality of people in the team etc. I’ve worked at a few toxic places as well as good places but with toxic managers - and some of those really tested my resilience. They can make you get low very quickly. First thing I’d suggest if all three have been FAANG is to try a different type of company. There are plenty of other industries that need tech staff - think banks, consultancies, consumer goods, insurance, retail. Almost any type of company these days. Try to find a good culture (as difficult as that is through the interview process!), a good manager, and build your confidence back. Often friends and contacts that have worked somewhere are the best way to find out if a company culture is good. Take “Top places to work” surveys with a grain of salt. Good luck!

sadfgawdsg 5y ago

A few ways to find these jobs is to look for older and maturer companies. But that is not all, if you manage your management and your teammates right, you can create a good WLB anywhere. Here are a few pointers: 1. Slowdown!!! You would think you are impressing your boss and teammates by getting it done fast but opposite is happening. They think they assigned you an easy task. At the same time, they will expect you to perform at the same speed going forward. 2. Don't ever send any email after 5pm. Never answer Slack messages when on lunch. Learn to reject meetings at odd times. Manager wants to have a meeting at 5PM, tell them you got plans. No need to explain what those plans are. Once I met this guy, he would just say I have plans and nothing more. He never ever had to work on weekends, or after 5pm. One time, in a meeting, our manager asked each of us which Saturdays in upcoming quarter are good for working. Everyone volunteered a few Saturdays. When this guy's turn came, he simply said he got plans. The manager's mouth dropped, he asked every single Saturday of next 12 weeks, this guy replied just yes. The manager was so red, it was amazing. Since then I have learned to say I got plans. 3. Don't kill yourself over on-call. The management makes it seems like that if production breaks, then we should drop everything and fix production. No don't fall for it. Oncall makes sense for doctors where people will literally die. But most of IT infrastructure is not that crucial. Even if it is, it is on management to allocate enough resources to build a resilient infrastructure. If they cannot do that, then your personal life comes first. I learned from my older co-workers who would take hours to fix some small quick jobs after hours. If they got an alert that something is broken, they will finish what they were doing, dinner, playing with kids, out shopping, etc. Sometimes they waited long enough for page to escalate to their manager before starting work. And if it was something that breaks all the time but management was not allocating time to fix it, they would drag it forever until boss's boss is getting paged. Things would get fixed pretty quickly when CTO had to wake up in the middle of night. 4. Don't let anyone in your team get abused. A lot of young programmers and passive people get abused in our industry, they are afraid to say no, work long hours, and sometimes even think that it is normal. The problem is that the management will start getting braver and abusing more people. So if you see your teammate getting abused, find out what's going on. Teach them how to deal with the management abuse. But there are certain people who actually enjoy working all the time. If that's the case then explain to them how their actions are actually encouraging bad behavior from the management. Tell them they should be working on personal projects after work. This may not work always, but that is why I avoid joining a team with too many young people.

giantg2 5y ago
I would literally get fired for this stuff. I may end up on a performance plan next year due to being slow. I've seen people get close to being fired (at least given the lowest rating) when not providing off-hours support (if it's a pattern). Hell, I almost got fired for answering my prior department head by saying that my future plan was just to be a midlevel developer since I was working above my level and not getting promoted. He told my manager "fire him", and I only managed to transfer because he tipped me off. I work for one of the 25 best places to work according to computer world.
- fsdfads 5y ago
  > I work for one of the 25 best places to work according to computer world. These ranking are so easy to game. My wife worked at a small recruiting company in Dallas. This company always made it to the lists of best companies to work for in DFW, whether if it was D Magazine, Dallas Observer, or some online poll, this company was always was there. The way these lists work is that a company submits an application to be included in the list. Not sure if application is free or not, but if application is accepted, the list maker would let the company know when they will email the survey link. My wife's company will always host a huge happy hour party the day before the survey email is supposed to go out. Some people who seems disgruntled will get a free day off. And some people will never get survey link at all. On the day of survey, there will be nice lunch brought in. And finally the owner will make sure that everyone fills out survey same day by scheduling a company wide meeting. During that meeting everyone is supposed fill out their survey while owner and managers are walking around the cubes. Oh and they would give speeches like how hard it is to recruit top talent and how working at one of the best place to work for will look good on their resumes. And yes some employees are still checking their spam folders for the email link while owner and managers pretend they are troubleshooting. As for that company, it wasn't bad for work life balance, it was just that the 40 years old owner was a party animal who wanted to party with 20 years old. He would favor people who partied with him at happy hours or went clubbing with him. It was nowhere near the best places to work for in the DFW. Benefits were horrible and if you were not young party animal, it wasn't a good place to be.

popcornminute3 5y ago

Absolutely. You can pickout from someone's words how embedded in "self" they are. The west has nurtured a selfish society; one that isn't just greedy, but that is obsessed with "self". We call it individualism, but also express the doctorine through all the words with the self- prefix, where self-actualization may be the most grandiose. But when we embody our "self" we embody our ego. When your ego is fulfilled you are fulfilled. When your ego is hurt you are hurt. When your ego is actualized you are actualized. And we become obsessed with self-this and self-that, with everything pointing inward. But this is your ego taking hold of you. You have no control. You end up trying to pursuade yourself to no avail. Except, there really is nothing inward. So as much as your ego is "there" you can never get to it or "fix" it. The ego itself is void. So when you begin to believe that when all else fails, there has to be something wrong with your "self" or that "you must change" or that the solution is "deep within you", you get sucked into that black hole and you implode. You may turn to drugs to feel better, but you're still stuck with your problem, which is you, in your head. But the moment you externalize your ego and embody your ego-less self, you gain freedom from self, and the freedom you need to begin solving your external problems, of which your ego just becomes one of them. When you tell yourself "I am hungry" who is listening? When you tell yourself "I should go eat" who is speaking? It takes at least two to have a conversation. The needy one is your ego. The other one is you. When people say "pat yourself on your back", they mean pat your ego. And it feels good to the extent that your ego gets the attention it craves. The one doing that patting is you. If you called this self-patting, now you have the template. Self-motivation is you trying to motivate your ego. Forget it. Remove your ego and ask yourself why you can't do something. You're probably tired, unamused, or just don't believe in it. Self-help is you trying to help your ego. Forget it. Remove your ego and just go ask for help if you need it. Etc, etc. Your ego is still there. He'll be there waiting and occasionally bugging you. But to be in control you cannot be him. And there is no changing you through him because there is no changing him because there are no parts to him. All the parts are with you. Like body parts, we have mental parts. We also have moods and states. He is just one of the many parts that makeup what others and you may perceive as you. But none of them are you; the one that lifts the hand to pat your ego on the back. That is the control you have.

aristofun 5y ago
Thank you for detailed explanation, this is very beautiful thinking. Few questions: 1. “The ego itself is void” - how void can feel something, be frustrated etc? If it’s not there - who is suffering, experiencing problems? 2. Who is “I” if not the sum of all parts working together? Take out all the parts including ego - will be there anyone to “fix external problems”? In other words how can we know (verify or at least feel) that your model isn’t just a play of words, while objectively exissting and experienced feelings, issues, dissatisfactions are still there? Or what difference does it make - how we split the cake and how we call our different parts?
- popcornminute2 5y ago
  > If it’s not there - who is suffering, experiencing problems? It's void in the sense that it's a black hole and a black box. You feed it, and it all disappears into a void. Your ego will then ask you to do things to feed it more, but nothing good comes of this. You are simply ego-driven. And in an ego-embodying state, when your ego fails, you fail. Crisis. This crisis is the worst when you cause it. When you realize your ego is an idiot, but still equate it with you, "you" becomes a paradox. > 2. Who is “I” if not the sum of all parts working together? Right. But you're your hand, but your hand is external to the one doing the feeling, thinking, and controlling. You can exist without it. Repeat for every part. Headaches may be the most telling. Literally, your head is hurting. Yet, we swallow a pill and get on with our lives. Once you strip everything away, you're left with an observer that can feel and talk and decide. A stripped consciousness. At this level we may truly all be the same. It is at this level that we must connect. Of course, ego-embodying people connect with their egos. This explains most of the people I've met in the last 20 years through work in Los Angeles. Once you're not an ego booster to them, the relationship is over. But they all use ego-boosting to make relationships and sustain them. They believe that's how they'll make it, when all it is is their ego thirsty for attention and money. Well, the one doing the ego-boosting, the one deciding to do it, and the one okay with it, is the selfless you that can do, decide, and not be okay with the opposite. > that your model isn’t just a play of words It's all words. Or at least, every version of the world exposes itself as (a play of) words. When I see someone reasoning with self- words, I see them playing with fire, and I can easily fix their expressions to be less egocentric. Usually it makes them feel better too. It's semantic surgery and semantic therapy. You hear a pessimist and if you're an optimist, you know right away how unnecessary some of their framing of the world can be. It's all in our words. > what difference does it make - how we split the cake and how we call our different parts We can split it however we see fit, but it makes all the difference. If you identify with your ego, you'll live one way. If you identify your ego as a needy pesky pet that lives in your mind that requires occassional feeding, you'll live another way. The ego serves a purpose. It can make you feel really really good. It's tenticales stretch into our nervous system. It rewards us for our successes and punishes us for our failures. Or at least tries to. Kids are all one with their egos. It's with maturity that we learn detachement and transcendence. That's when we stop taking everything so personally and decide it's not okay to let our ego do the driving. But when you have the entire western culture obsessed with individualism, too many of us have become intellectually engrossed in ego-driven self-worship. We then attach our egos to group identities and go to war with them. To facebook and twitter. And that needs to be called out for exactly what it is: Immature.

aristofun 5y ago
Got you. Thanks. And what in your opinion would be the practical outcome from all this to overcome some case of career related type of middle age crisis? What the #1 specific thing youd recommend topicstarter to do to be 1step closer to disconnecting with ego?
- popcornminute2 5y ago
  Your selfless self has always been at the center of your existence since you can remember. Your selfless self is the one that does the experiencing, and the decision making. And that's all you really need at this point, especially when you're older. So decide what you wish to experience next, and decide to experience it. That's it! Strip everything away and let go by taking everything you've been framing as internal and reframing it as external. It's a huge moving out party. Throw that sofa out on the lawn. Empty your apartment so you can identify everything people threw in there, and what it is you actually miss. You might have to quit your job, get a divorce, or disown your father to get there. But you can't give anyone a second chance unless you accept they've stolen from you once. This includes your ego. But this cannot include your selfless self because it cannot take from you. It only takes on behalf of the needy to serve them and waits for new requests. Your head will tell you if it aches. Your body will tell you it's tired. Your ego will tell you if it has issues with the other egos in the room. So take asprin, get some good sleep, and rethink your relationships. These are not problems. They're just tasks. Some are harder to solve than others, but you have a brain, and google and books where every solution has been shared at least once. And it's always your selfless self that goes to work and does everything for you. Your ego never solved anything. So once you've emptied your cup and are in a good mood, ask for your next experience. Make a wish. And go do it treating it as the most important event in the world because it is. It's your truth. At which point, what do you need your ego for? If it's what got you here, then it's job is done. And you may even wish to experience giving someone a second chance.