4 ms·

In my home school district, it took years (and many months of formal observers) to fire teachers who habitually came to work drunk or simply didn't do their job

In my home school district, it took years (and many months of formal observers) to fire teachers who habitually came to work drunk or simply didn't do their job, and pre-tenure teachers would all get axed when the economy went downhill. Cop unions aren't that special.

sudosysgen 5y ago
You're just describing tenure? If your high school has a tenure system, it's not a teacher issue, it's a systemic issues. Cop unions are incredibly special. The thing about cop unions is that they're the same everywhere, there is no city where cops are fired adequately for cause. There are plenty of cities where teachers can get fired. There is no profession with the same universal tolerance for abuse anywhere as cops. The reason has to do with their function as cops, not their labour union.
- pverghese 5y ago
  You keep claiming everything else is an issue where the common denominator is unions themseleves.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    No? It isn't? Cops everywhere in North America have the issue of being unfireable despite literally committing crimes. Electricians don't have this issue. Both of them are highly unionized. So clearly the common denominator isn't unions. Even before their mass unionization cops were able to get away with far too much and they get away with far more than any other profession, unionized or otherwise.
    - sitkack 5y ago
      There is a causality issue in this thread. Folks that are anti-union overly focus on police unions as a metric. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Target_fixation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Target_fixation
    - CryptoPunk 5y ago
      Because cops work for the government, which has a monopoly on policing services and the tax revenue that pays for it. The unions can therefore be far more abusive, as their patron and customer, which is the taxpayer and resident, respectively, is captive, absent these two groups being able to successfully organize a strong enough political coalition to counter the Democrats in the electoral process.
- truffdog 5y ago
  Tenure and firing protections and procedures are negotiated with the union. Unreasonable protections can be a concession to union bargainers in lieu of pay, and are common in union shops for that reason.
JumpCrisscross 5y ago
Public sector unions, particularly those in essential services, are very different from private sector unions. If the cops go on strike, the city falls apart. If Amazon’s workers go on, it creates a competitive opening. When parents can take their kids out of public schools more easily, the teachers’ unions lose power.

sudosysgen 5y ago

You're just describing tenure? If your high school has a tenure system, it's not a teacher issue, it's a systemic issues. Cop unions are incredibly special. The thing about cop unions is that they're the same everywhere, there is no city where cops are fired adequately for cause. There are plenty of cities where teachers can get fired. There is no profession with the same universal tolerance for abuse anywhere as cops. The reason has to do with their function as cops, not their labour union.

pverghese 5y ago
You keep claiming everything else is an issue where the common denominator is unions themseleves.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  No? It isn't? Cops everywhere in North America have the issue of being unfireable despite literally committing crimes. Electricians don't have this issue. Both of them are highly unionized. So clearly the common denominator isn't unions. Even before their mass unionization cops were able to get away with far too much and they get away with far more than any other profession, unionized or otherwise.
  - sitkack 5y ago
    There is a causality issue in this thread. Folks that are anti-union overly focus on police unions as a metric. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Target_fixation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Target_fixation
  - CryptoPunk 5y ago
    Because cops work for the government, which has a monopoly on policing services and the tax revenue that pays for it. The unions can therefore be far more abusive, as their patron and customer, which is the taxpayer and resident, respectively, is captive, absent these two groups being able to successfully organize a strong enough political coalition to counter the Democrats in the electoral process.
truffdog 5y ago
Tenure and firing protections and procedures are negotiated with the union. Unreasonable protections can be a concession to union bargainers in lieu of pay, and are common in union shops for that reason.

JumpCrisscross 5y ago

Public sector unions, particularly those in essential services, are very different from private sector unions. If the cops go on strike, the city falls apart. If Amazon’s workers go on, it creates a competitive opening. When parents can take their kids out of public schools more easily, the teachers’ unions lose power.