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I hate to be this condescending but why is this not just ordinary laziness? Do we really need to go to a doctor so that we hear that we have a problem, and we m

I hate to be this condescending but why is this not just ordinary laziness? Do we really need to go to a doctor so that we hear that we have a problem, and we might need medicine, to focus? Isn't it more likely that a constant stream of never ending notifications and interruptions decrease our attention span to seconds? You can't read a book because you can't read an article, and you can't read and article because you read 6 line long hackernews or reddit comment that "might" contain some knowledge. Your brain evolved to adapt and it adapted to a world where everything might take your attention elsewhere. You can work to fix this.

astrange 5y ago
> Do we really need to go to a doctor so that we hear that we have a problem, and we might need medicine, to focus? > You can work to fix this. Going to a doctor is "working to fix it", and it's a lot of work to keep the prescriptions filled since nobody will give you more than 30 days supply of the useful medicines. There is plenty of other stuff you can do. It's just none of it works unless you do the medication first. If you don't have the physical causes of ADHD, the medication won't help much, but other things like therapy or going on vacation will. With ADHD it's the opposite.
yumaikas 5y ago
ADHD is a very well studied medical phenomenon, which results from physical differences from the brain. When it does apply, getting the right kind of help can be life changing. And even if it is "ordinary laziness", that doesn't mean that seeking confirmation of it something is ADHD or not is a bad exercise, if you can afford it. The lack of motivation also is a very good sign that the OP is heavily disconnected from their work, and needs to find another job or lifestyle, especially if it's this bad and they don't have ADHD. If it is ADHD, then you have confirmation of a very helpful community and set of medical and psychological tools that you can apply, and you can ignore vast amounts of advice that just doesn't work for people with ADHD. > Do we really need to go to a doctor so that we hear that we have a problem, and we might need medicine, to focus? Modern society can be very inflexible if you're in the wrong spot, and don't have the ability to explain why the fit is so bad. Lastly, many people who do have ADHD have been told that they are lazy or haven't lived to their potential their entire lives. They know they don't fit in. They pick over their brains, looking for ways to do better, trying ways to do better. They are, as a population, far more self-examined than the norm. They don't need your doubt, they have plenty of their own.
- wizzard 5y ago
  Very well said. Consider how people like to say they have OCD because they think it’s just “liking to be clean”. Most people like things to be clean, right? So anyone could be diagnosed with OCD on a bad day, couldn’t they? No, because OCD is caused by underlying physical problems with the brain that cause very specific symptoms that interfere greatly with your life. When you see a person who is actually diagnosed with OCD, it becomes really clear that none of these other jokers have it. The problem with ADHD is that instead of hand washing or checking doors or other very unusual rituals, it mostly just looks like laziness to a casual observer.
  - robocat 5y ago
    > No, because OCD is caused by underlying physical problems with the brain that cause very specific symptoms that interfere greatly with your life. OCD is merely a label for a cluster of symptoms. It says nothing about the cause. The same can be said for the majority of psychiatric diagnoses afaik. E.g. “Doctors aren’t sure why some people have OCD.” - https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/obsessive-compulsive-disorder#2-4 https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/obsessive-compulsive-dis... E.g. 2: OCD can be a symptom of a strep infection and nothing to do with brain chemistry. https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/pandas/ https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/pandas/
    - borski 5y ago
      While we don’t know the exact cause of OCD or ADHD, physically, we do have research that describes correlations. Particularly for ADHD, we know certain areas of the brain that control executive function are generally smaller in people with ADHD. We also know that they generally have lower levels of certain brain chemicals, and we have learned far more about it through radioactive isotope examination of the brain as well. For OCD: Research suggests that OCD involves problems in communication between the front part of the brain and deeper structures of the brain. These brain structures use a neurotransmitter (basically, a chemical messenger) called serotonin. Pictures of the brain at work also show that, in some people, the brain circuits involved in OCD become more normal with either medications that affect serotonin levels (serotonin reuptake inhibitors, or SRIs) or cognitive behavior therapy (CBT). Just because we don’t know the precise cause doesn’t mean we cannot, in the meantime, help alleviate the symptoms for someone suffering from the syndrome (since we don’t know the precise cause). Please don’t get in the way of this by implying people are “making it up,” because, simply, they are not. Both of these are extremely well studied syndromes, but really only in the last few decades.
hallway_monitor 5y ago
I don't mind this take. I'm lazy as hell. I can't make myself care about doing things enough to do them. I would love to magically change that, but no luck so far. Meds help but they don't help enough that I remember to take them or get them refilled. Behavioral interventions have been shown to help, i.e. get off the damn screen and meditate, get outside. It's not that I can't read a book, I just forget that I wanted to read it. Then by the time I remember I already have my phone out and hn pulled up. Call it laziness, call it ADHD. I don't care, and I don't expect sympathy just like someone who can't do calculus doesn't need sympathy. Some things just seem harder for me than they are for some people.
ahaferburg 5y ago
And what exactly is "ordinary laziness"?
meej 5y ago
There's a growing group of psychologists who say laziness is a myth. It doesn't exist. When someone is being what we would call lazy, there is almost always something else going on. https://humanparts.medium.com/laziness-does-not-exist-3af27e312d01 https://humanparts.medium.com/laziness-does-not-exist-3af27e...

astrange 5y ago

> Do we really need to go to a doctor so that we hear that we have a problem, and we might need medicine, to focus? > You can work to fix this. Going to a doctor is "working to fix it", and it's a lot of work to keep the prescriptions filled since nobody will give you more than 30 days supply of the useful medicines. There is plenty of other stuff you can do. It's just none of it works unless you do the medication first. If you don't have the physical causes of ADHD, the medication won't help much, but other things like therapy or going on vacation will. With ADHD it's the opposite.

yumaikas 5y ago

ADHD is a very well studied medical phenomenon, which results from physical differences from the brain. When it does apply, getting the right kind of help can be life changing. And even if it is "ordinary laziness", that doesn't mean that seeking confirmation of it something is ADHD or not is a bad exercise, if you can afford it. The lack of motivation also is a very good sign that the OP is heavily disconnected from their work, and needs to find another job or lifestyle, especially if it's this bad and they don't have ADHD. If it is ADHD, then you have confirmation of a very helpful community and set of medical and psychological tools that you can apply, and you can ignore vast amounts of advice that just doesn't work for people with ADHD. > Do we really need to go to a doctor so that we hear that we have a problem, and we might need medicine, to focus? Modern society can be very inflexible if you're in the wrong spot, and don't have the ability to explain why the fit is so bad. Lastly, many people who do have ADHD have been told that they are lazy or haven't lived to their potential their entire lives. They know they don't fit in. They pick over their brains, looking for ways to do better, trying ways to do better. They are, as a population, far more self-examined than the norm. They don't need your doubt, they have plenty of their own.

wizzard 5y ago
Very well said. Consider how people like to say they have OCD because they think it’s just “liking to be clean”. Most people like things to be clean, right? So anyone could be diagnosed with OCD on a bad day, couldn’t they? No, because OCD is caused by underlying physical problems with the brain that cause very specific symptoms that interfere greatly with your life. When you see a person who is actually diagnosed with OCD, it becomes really clear that none of these other jokers have it. The problem with ADHD is that instead of hand washing or checking doors or other very unusual rituals, it mostly just looks like laziness to a casual observer.
- robocat 5y ago
  > No, because OCD is caused by underlying physical problems with the brain that cause very specific symptoms that interfere greatly with your life. OCD is merely a label for a cluster of symptoms. It says nothing about the cause. The same can be said for the majority of psychiatric diagnoses afaik. E.g. “Doctors aren’t sure why some people have OCD.” - https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/obsessive-compulsive-disorder#2-4 https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/obsessive-compulsive-dis... E.g. 2: OCD can be a symptom of a strep infection and nothing to do with brain chemistry. https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/pandas/ https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/pandas/
  - borski 5y ago
    While we don’t know the exact cause of OCD or ADHD, physically, we do have research that describes correlations. Particularly for ADHD, we know certain areas of the brain that control executive function are generally smaller in people with ADHD. We also know that they generally have lower levels of certain brain chemicals, and we have learned far more about it through radioactive isotope examination of the brain as well. For OCD: Research suggests that OCD involves problems in communication between the front part of the brain and deeper structures of the brain. These brain structures use a neurotransmitter (basically, a chemical messenger) called serotonin. Pictures of the brain at work also show that, in some people, the brain circuits involved in OCD become more normal with either medications that affect serotonin levels (serotonin reuptake inhibitors, or SRIs) or cognitive behavior therapy (CBT). Just because we don’t know the precise cause doesn’t mean we cannot, in the meantime, help alleviate the symptoms for someone suffering from the syndrome (since we don’t know the precise cause). Please don’t get in the way of this by implying people are “making it up,” because, simply, they are not. Both of these are extremely well studied syndromes, but really only in the last few decades.

hallway_monitor 5y ago

I don't mind this take. I'm lazy as hell. I can't make myself care about doing things enough to do them. I would love to magically change that, but no luck so far. Meds help but they don't help enough that I remember to take them or get them refilled. Behavioral interventions have been shown to help, i.e. get off the damn screen and meditate, get outside. It's not that I can't read a book, I just forget that I wanted to read it. Then by the time I remember I already have my phone out and hn pulled up. Call it laziness, call it ADHD. I don't care, and I don't expect sympathy just like someone who can't do calculus doesn't need sympathy. Some things just seem harder for me than they are for some people.

ahaferburg 5y ago

And what exactly is "ordinary laziness"?

meej 5y ago

There's a growing group of psychologists who say laziness is a myth. It doesn't exist. When someone is being what we would call lazy, there is almost always something else going on. https://humanparts.medium.com/laziness-does-not-exist-3af27e312d01 https://humanparts.medium.com/laziness-does-not-exist-3af27e...