11 ms·

Isn't it just rational not to get excited about boring stuff that is rewarded by a fix monetary ceiling? Economically it completely makes sense: why put more en

by uh_uh 5y ago

Isn't it just rational not to get excited about boring stuff that is rewarded by a fix monetary ceiling? Economically it completely makes sense: why put more energy into something that yields the same result either way? Or maybe I have ADHD too.

masukomi 5y ago
it's not about not getting excited. It's the result of being "not excited". Neurotypicals can work on things that are uninteresting to them. ADHD people can sit there yelling at themselves to "do the thing" that they _know_ they need to do and still be completely incapable of starting regardless of how "easy" it is to actually do it once something forces them to actually start. this video does a good job of explaining the motivation problem when you have ADHD. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM0Xv0eVGtY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM0Xv0eVGtY
- uh_uh 5y ago
  > ADHD people can sit there yelling at themselves to "do the thing" that they _know_ they need to do and still be completely incapable of starting regardless of how "easy" it is to actually do it once something forces them to actually start. I also do this. Even worse: the easier and hence duller the task seems, the more difficult it is to get started on it. Once I do start on it and finish 5 minutes later, I need a 20 minute break (WFH doesn't help). I also often zone out during meetings to the point I haven't got a clue what people are talking about. But to be honest the information content of most meetings is really low.
  - EricBurnett 5y ago
    That's actually a strategy recommended to ADHD folk: do 20m of engaging "fun" to prepare yourself for 5m of forced boring activity. Think of it as recharging a reservoir of $tolerance before draining it to power some boring activity.
  - throwaway6734 5y ago
    >I also often zone out during meetings to the point I haven't got a clue what people are talking about I've found that having a pen and some notepaper for doodling and writing whatever a speaker is saying is helpful to stay engaged
    - eyelidlessness 5y ago
      I play minesweeper. I even have a reputation for it. Long before I got my ADHD diagnosis. But I’ve done a good job of making people aware that if I’m playing minesweeper I’m as engaged as I’m able to be.
  - sizzle 5y ago
    Getting started feels like climbing the steepest mountain, so I’ve learned to just open the damn thing in front of me and tell someone I’ll send it over to force myself to start (forced accountability). It works 99% of the time if I think the person is sitting there waiting for it anxiously. ADHD is living life as a knowledge worker on nightmare mode compared to neurotypicals with functioning executive memory.
- andi999 5y ago
  You mean people can fill out their tax forms before the due date?
  - edoceo 5y ago
    No joke. I pay my CPA extra to nag me.
    - seg_lol 5y ago
      I do the same thing!
      - borski 5y ago
        Same. I automate it, though, wherever possible, and still managed to forget to pay my most recent property taxes, heh
        eyelidlessness 5y ago
        I live and die by Reminders.app and yet I still have 20 unaddressed reminders at any given time :(
        mkr-hn 5y ago
        I set the important reminders for 2pm. Something about 2pm is just right. It doesn't always work, but it works often enough that I "hey Siri, remind me to [x] at 2pm on [day]" when it matters. I usually end up doing it earlier because I know 2pm is coming.
        eyelidlessness 5y ago
        I set my important ones for 1030am or 1pm!
- borski 5y ago
  This, exactly. It's not about not wanting to. It's about literally being incapable of changing that, no matter how much you tell yourself and really mean to want to.
  - ksaj 5y ago
    One thing I think isn't too clear with the descriptions here - sometimes it is just that hard to start things you want to do with ADHD as well. I consider that a hallmark of the syndrome - you are REALLY interested in something, got a project fully prepared around it, and then it sits there waiting for you to do it. All that time you might research it, but it's a problem of getting started even though it is something you are wildly interested in. Dozens of really interesting things left undone and probably never will get done. Most of the people who don't understand ADHD and say it is similar to what they go through should be taught about this aspect of it as well.
    - dalmo3 5y ago
      > I consider that a hallmark of the syndrome - you are REALLY interested in something, got a project fully prepared around it, and then it sits there waiting for you to do it. While I don't dispute the seriousness of ADHD, having never read about it, I can't help but think that the thing you described as the hallmark of the syndrome is just a really common thing among any functioning human being.
      - ksaj 5y ago
        Pretty much every symptom can be described that way. Your chest feel heavy? It could be cancer. It could also just be a really common thing among any functioning human being. A hallmark can't just be considered without the existence of other symptoms. It literally means "If you see this symptom, look for these others to see if it's ADHD." An indicator isn't a solitary rule. People really like to minimize it because online ADHD conversations don't typically describe the entire diagnosis and its variations. To do so would be far too verbose and extensive for regular discussion.
- stavros 5y ago
  Oof, this video makes me think I may have ADHD. I just cannot get boring things done, and I get more stressed the more I procrastinate, and it just spirals. What has helped me is something that the video mentions too, and that's working with a coworker. Not so much pairing (as in, looking at each other's screen), but just saying "I'm working on X now" and feeling like someone else is working on their thing alongside you/simultaneously. That has produced great results for me.
  - eyelidlessness 5y ago
    Checking in for accountability like this is a really REALLY common ADHD coping skill.
    - jvns 5y ago
      there's a site called focusmate that helps you find accountability buddies (https://focusmate.com https://focusmate.com). it's really helped me.
      - eyelidlessness 5y ago
        Do you use this primarily for professional life, personal tasks, general motivation? (Tried to word this non-exhaustive/non-xor but saying so explicitly in case that didn’t come across.)
        tailspin2019 5y ago
        Yes I'd be curious to hear more about this too. I've looked at Focusmate but haven't yet got myself over the line to signup.
        asouers 5y ago
        ADHDer here—I found Focusmate last fall and it flipped my whole world right-side up. (It was so impactful I actually got in touch with the team and, long story short, I now work for them.) Anyway, I’d be happy to do a session with you and show you the ropes.
- gknoy 5y ago
  Completely off topic (I think?), thanks for posting that video. Her entire channel seems full of things that can be useful to me.
- sizzle 5y ago
  This is why adhd is associated with risky behaviors like drug use, gambling addiction, unprotected sex and std transmission, stealing, etc. the dopamine rush lights up your reward system above your baseline levels in these extreme situations just like procrastinating and getting something done down to the minute before it’s due and narrowly missing the severe consequences (getting fired, your spouse leaving you, letting bills go unpaid until you are about to lose your utilities, house, get deeper into credit card debt, etc. It’s a vicious cycle leading you on a one way ticket straight to hell and losing everything you care about in life or rotting in prison as an adult that looks invisible to the naked neurotypical eye and dismissed as being lazy when a kid by ignorant parents.
  - xuki 5y ago
    > the dopamine rush lights up your reward system above your baseline levels in these extreme situations just like procrastinating and getting something done down to the minute before it’s due and narrowly missing the severe consequences (getting fired, your spouse leaving you, letting bills go unpaid until you are about to lose your utilities, house, get deeper into credit card debt, etc. I’ve been this way my entire adult life and I did not realize those were dopamine hits. Wow.
    - sizzle 5y ago
      Yeah if the stakes are high you will be forced to take action, possibly activate your fight or flight adrenaline response if it’s immediate but mostly the dire consequences and novelty of situations feel akin to having a gun to your head and needing to take action or risk serious harm. Maybe they are evolved mechanisms, citations needed of course. There is hope if you have severe adhd, highly recommend a medical work up with stimulant meds at therapeutic dosages. Don’t feel ashamed if you need help, no one wants to live their life knowing they are being held back by their broken executive functioning region of their brain and missing the opportunity to realize their full potential.
- tayo42 5y ago
  Where is the line between procrastination and adhd then?
  - ksaj 5y ago
    Procrastinators can get things they like to do, done. ADHD makes even things you love and are wildly interest in, hard to follow through on. People with ADHD are notorious for starting projects and then leaving them, regardless of how fun or cool said project was. Procrastinators don't start new projects consecutively. One is a delay tactic. The other is outright avoidance.
- tasuki 5y ago
  > ADHD people can sit there yelling at themselves to "do the thing" that they _know_ they need to do and still be completely incapable of starting regardless of how "easy" it is to actually do it once something forces them to actually start. Isn't that basically how everyone behaves?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - forz877 5y ago
    Not to the extreme people with ADHD have. For example, I know many people who just don't show up for work. They just can't get up and do it and they get fired. That isn't typical for how "everyone behaves."
TrackerFF 5y ago
With ADHD, for many it's nigh on impossible to get focused, no mater how high the stakes are - to the point where it seems extremely irresponsible and downright irrational to normal observers. Imagine that almost everything in your life, is the equivalent of starting on a test/exam 2 hours before the deadline, even though you've had a week or two to finish it.
- astrange 5y ago
  The problem with ADHD is that it applies to everything in your life, not just work. You're equally unable to do chores, hobbies, have fun, or even finish watching a TV series. Actually, they're even harder to do than work because there's no pressure on you to keep up with it.
  - darkerside 5y ago
    These all seem like normal human activities to me, tbh
    - throwaway743 5y ago
      It's more of an issue of organizing and properly prioritizing one's thoughts, along with the irl output being misaligned. This usually results in an incredible amount frustration that gets fed back into the thought loop and frequently causes confusion, which that confusion contributes to the above and can lead to depression and/or anxiety (both in my case unfortunately). The struggle is more than the simplistic description of "this is not interesting. It bores me", it's really "my brain is uncomfortably overwhelmed with coordinating my thoughts with the tasks at hand to the point of feeling angry/anxious/down/<fill in negative emotion>, but oooo I could just cook a familiar recipe which won't require much thinking and can relieve me of, and potentially help with, this mental situation". It's complicated and requires a lot of "tricks" to deal with it. This is the case whether there are tasks to do, if one is just reflecting in thought, thinking up ideas, conversing, reading, etc... even writing this has taken me 10-15 minutes tbh...
      - 5y ago
Sophistifunk 5y ago
There's a big gap between finding the work you're actually doing kinda boring, and the massive effort required for me (the narration which believes itself to be the executive) to make progress of any kind at all when the rest of my internal processes don't feel like playing ball. Even with meds.
desert_boi 5y ago
Indolence when you get don't get more out of extra work is a logical response.
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
Yes, it's becoming common misconception online that hyperfocus is indicative of ADHD. That's a misunderstanding of the symptom. The concept of hyperfocus in ADHD was introduced in certain literature to explain a reduced ability of certain ADHD patients to control their attention, such as having difficulty stopping playing a video game to do the dishes. However, that's ambiguously close to normal human behavior of preferring to do fun tasks more than un-fun tasks, so the distinction is best left to professionals. Regardless, it wouldn't really apply to the OP's description anyway, as accomplishing necessary work tasks before deadlines when necessary isn't the same as someone drawn to fun activities like video games or TV. As always, it's best to consult professionals. Internet medical advice, especially about ADHD, is increasingly wrong online. It's also worth noting that the concept of "hyperfocus" doesn't even appear in most accepted definitions of ADHD, and isn't considered in diagnostic tests. The idea of "hyperfocus" in ADHD is relatively limited to a few authors and one recent blurb in some European clinical definitions from 2019.
- borski 5y ago
  That is not true, and it is referenced as a symptom as early as 1993 in Driven to Distraction, the book I brought up earlier.
  - PragmaticPulp 5y ago
    Driven to Distraction is a self-help book, not medical literature. I was referring to official, medical definitions of ADHD and official diagnostic criteria.
    - borski 5y ago
      It isn’t medical literature, but it references medical literature and is written by medical professionals. Also, whether it was mentioned in medical literature or not, the point is that the symptom was being talked about as early as 1993.

by uh_uh 5y ago

masukomi 5y ago

it's not about not getting excited. It's the result of being "not excited". Neurotypicals can work on things that are uninteresting to them. ADHD people can sit there yelling at themselves to "do the thing" that they _know_ they need to do and still be completely incapable of starting regardless of how "easy" it is to actually do it once something forces them to actually start. this video does a good job of explaining the motivation problem when you have ADHD. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM0Xv0eVGtY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM0Xv0eVGtY

uh_uh 5y ago
> ADHD people can sit there yelling at themselves to "do the thing" that they _know_ they need to do and still be completely incapable of starting regardless of how "easy" it is to actually do it once something forces them to actually start. I also do this. Even worse: the easier and hence duller the task seems, the more difficult it is to get started on it. Once I do start on it and finish 5 minutes later, I need a 20 minute break (WFH doesn't help). I also often zone out during meetings to the point I haven't got a clue what people are talking about. But to be honest the information content of most meetings is really low.
- EricBurnett 5y ago
  That's actually a strategy recommended to ADHD folk: do 20m of engaging "fun" to prepare yourself for 5m of forced boring activity. Think of it as recharging a reservoir of $tolerance before draining it to power some boring activity.
- throwaway6734 5y ago
  >I also often zone out during meetings to the point I haven't got a clue what people are talking about I've found that having a pen and some notepaper for doodling and writing whatever a speaker is saying is helpful to stay engaged
  - eyelidlessness 5y ago
    I play minesweeper. I even have a reputation for it. Long before I got my ADHD diagnosis. But I’ve done a good job of making people aware that if I’m playing minesweeper I’m as engaged as I’m able to be.
- sizzle 5y ago
  Getting started feels like climbing the steepest mountain, so I’ve learned to just open the damn thing in front of me and tell someone I’ll send it over to force myself to start (forced accountability). It works 99% of the time if I think the person is sitting there waiting for it anxiously. ADHD is living life as a knowledge worker on nightmare mode compared to neurotypicals with functioning executive memory.
andi999 5y ago
You mean people can fill out their tax forms before the due date?
- edoceo 5y ago
  No joke. I pay my CPA extra to nag me.
  - seg_lol 5y ago
    I do the same thing!
    - borski 5y ago
      Same. I automate it, though, wherever possible, and still managed to forget to pay my most recent property taxes, heh
      - eyelidlessness 5y ago
        I live and die by Reminders.app and yet I still have 20 unaddressed reminders at any given time :(
        mkr-hn 5y ago
        I set the important reminders for 2pm. Something about 2pm is just right. It doesn't always work, but it works often enough that I "hey Siri, remind me to [x] at 2pm on [day]" when it matters. I usually end up doing it earlier because I know 2pm is coming.
        eyelidlessness 5y ago
        I set my important ones for 1030am or 1pm!
borski 5y ago
This, exactly. It's not about not wanting to. It's about literally being incapable of changing that, no matter how much you tell yourself and really mean to want to.
- ksaj 5y ago
  One thing I think isn't too clear with the descriptions here - sometimes it is just that hard to start things you want to do with ADHD as well. I consider that a hallmark of the syndrome - you are REALLY interested in something, got a project fully prepared around it, and then it sits there waiting for you to do it. All that time you might research it, but it's a problem of getting started even though it is something you are wildly interested in. Dozens of really interesting things left undone and probably never will get done. Most of the people who don't understand ADHD and say it is similar to what they go through should be taught about this aspect of it as well.
  - dalmo3 5y ago
    > I consider that a hallmark of the syndrome - you are REALLY interested in something, got a project fully prepared around it, and then it sits there waiting for you to do it. While I don't dispute the seriousness of ADHD, having never read about it, I can't help but think that the thing you described as the hallmark of the syndrome is just a really common thing among any functioning human being.
    - ksaj 5y ago
      Pretty much every symptom can be described that way. Your chest feel heavy? It could be cancer. It could also just be a really common thing among any functioning human being. A hallmark can't just be considered without the existence of other symptoms. It literally means "If you see this symptom, look for these others to see if it's ADHD." An indicator isn't a solitary rule. People really like to minimize it because online ADHD conversations don't typically describe the entire diagnosis and its variations. To do so would be far too verbose and extensive for regular discussion.
stavros 5y ago
Oof, this video makes me think I may have ADHD. I just cannot get boring things done, and I get more stressed the more I procrastinate, and it just spirals. What has helped me is something that the video mentions too, and that's working with a coworker. Not so much pairing (as in, looking at each other's screen), but just saying "I'm working on X now" and feeling like someone else is working on their thing alongside you/simultaneously. That has produced great results for me.
- eyelidlessness 5y ago
  Checking in for accountability like this is a really REALLY common ADHD coping skill.
  - jvns 5y ago
    there's a site called focusmate that helps you find accountability buddies (https://focusmate.com https://focusmate.com). it's really helped me.
    - eyelidlessness 5y ago
      Do you use this primarily for professional life, personal tasks, general motivation? (Tried to word this non-exhaustive/non-xor but saying so explicitly in case that didn’t come across.)
      - tailspin2019 5y ago
        Yes I'd be curious to hear more about this too. I've looked at Focusmate but haven't yet got myself over the line to signup.
        asouers 5y ago
        ADHDer here—I found Focusmate last fall and it flipped my whole world right-side up. (It was so impactful I actually got in touch with the team and, long story short, I now work for them.) Anyway, I’d be happy to do a session with you and show you the ropes.
gknoy 5y ago
Completely off topic (I think?), thanks for posting that video. Her entire channel seems full of things that can be useful to me.
sizzle 5y ago
This is why adhd is associated with risky behaviors like drug use, gambling addiction, unprotected sex and std transmission, stealing, etc. the dopamine rush lights up your reward system above your baseline levels in these extreme situations just like procrastinating and getting something done down to the minute before it’s due and narrowly missing the severe consequences (getting fired, your spouse leaving you, letting bills go unpaid until you are about to lose your utilities, house, get deeper into credit card debt, etc. It’s a vicious cycle leading you on a one way ticket straight to hell and losing everything you care about in life or rotting in prison as an adult that looks invisible to the naked neurotypical eye and dismissed as being lazy when a kid by ignorant parents.
- xuki 5y ago
  > the dopamine rush lights up your reward system above your baseline levels in these extreme situations just like procrastinating and getting something done down to the minute before it’s due and narrowly missing the severe consequences (getting fired, your spouse leaving you, letting bills go unpaid until you are about to lose your utilities, house, get deeper into credit card debt, etc. I’ve been this way my entire adult life and I did not realize those were dopamine hits. Wow.
  - sizzle 5y ago
    Yeah if the stakes are high you will be forced to take action, possibly activate your fight or flight adrenaline response if it’s immediate but mostly the dire consequences and novelty of situations feel akin to having a gun to your head and needing to take action or risk serious harm. Maybe they are evolved mechanisms, citations needed of course. There is hope if you have severe adhd, highly recommend a medical work up with stimulant meds at therapeutic dosages. Don’t feel ashamed if you need help, no one wants to live their life knowing they are being held back by their broken executive functioning region of their brain and missing the opportunity to realize their full potential.
tayo42 5y ago
Where is the line between procrastination and adhd then?
- ksaj 5y ago
  Procrastinators can get things they like to do, done. ADHD makes even things you love and are wildly interest in, hard to follow through on. People with ADHD are notorious for starting projects and then leaving them, regardless of how fun or cool said project was. Procrastinators don't start new projects consecutively. One is a delay tactic. The other is outright avoidance.
tasuki 5y ago
> ADHD people can sit there yelling at themselves to "do the thing" that they _know_ they need to do and still be completely incapable of starting regardless of how "easy" it is to actually do it once something forces them to actually start. Isn't that basically how everyone behaves?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- forz877 5y ago
  Not to the extreme people with ADHD have. For example, I know many people who just don't show up for work. They just can't get up and do it and they get fired. That isn't typical for how "everyone behaves."

TrackerFF 5y ago

With ADHD, for many it's nigh on impossible to get focused, no mater how high the stakes are - to the point where it seems extremely irresponsible and downright irrational to normal observers. Imagine that almost everything in your life, is the equivalent of starting on a test/exam 2 hours before the deadline, even though you've had a week or two to finish it.

astrange 5y ago
The problem with ADHD is that it applies to everything in your life, not just work. You're equally unable to do chores, hobbies, have fun, or even finish watching a TV series. Actually, they're even harder to do than work because there's no pressure on you to keep up with it.
- darkerside 5y ago
  These all seem like normal human activities to me, tbh
  - throwaway743 5y ago
    It's more of an issue of organizing and properly prioritizing one's thoughts, along with the irl output being misaligned. This usually results in an incredible amount frustration that gets fed back into the thought loop and frequently causes confusion, which that confusion contributes to the above and can lead to depression and/or anxiety (both in my case unfortunately). The struggle is more than the simplistic description of "this is not interesting. It bores me", it's really "my brain is uncomfortably overwhelmed with coordinating my thoughts with the tasks at hand to the point of feeling angry/anxious/down/<fill in negative emotion>, but oooo I could just cook a familiar recipe which won't require much thinking and can relieve me of, and potentially help with, this mental situation". It's complicated and requires a lot of "tricks" to deal with it. This is the case whether there are tasks to do, if one is just reflecting in thought, thinking up ideas, conversing, reading, etc... even writing this has taken me 10-15 minutes tbh...
    - 5y ago

Sophistifunk 5y ago

There's a big gap between finding the work you're actually doing kinda boring, and the massive effort required for me (the narration which believes itself to be the executive) to make progress of any kind at all when the rest of my internal processes don't feel like playing ball. Even with meds.

desert_boi 5y ago

Indolence when you get don't get more out of extra work is a logical response.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

Yes, it's becoming common misconception online that hyperfocus is indicative of ADHD. That's a misunderstanding of the symptom. The concept of hyperfocus in ADHD was introduced in certain literature to explain a reduced ability of certain ADHD patients to control their attention, such as having difficulty stopping playing a video game to do the dishes. However, that's ambiguously close to normal human behavior of preferring to do fun tasks more than un-fun tasks, so the distinction is best left to professionals. Regardless, it wouldn't really apply to the OP's description anyway, as accomplishing necessary work tasks before deadlines when necessary isn't the same as someone drawn to fun activities like video games or TV. As always, it's best to consult professionals. Internet medical advice, especially about ADHD, is increasingly wrong online. It's also worth noting that the concept of "hyperfocus" doesn't even appear in most accepted definitions of ADHD, and isn't considered in diagnostic tests. The idea of "hyperfocus" in ADHD is relatively limited to a few authors and one recent blurb in some European clinical definitions from 2019.

borski 5y ago
That is not true, and it is referenced as a symptom as early as 1993 in Driven to Distraction, the book I brought up earlier.
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  Driven to Distraction is a self-help book, not medical literature. I was referring to official, medical definitions of ADHD and official diagnostic criteria.
  - borski 5y ago
    It isn’t medical literature, but it references medical literature and is written by medical professionals. Also, whether it was mentioned in medical literature or not, the point is that the symptom was being talked about as early as 1993.