12 ms·

Saffron as an Antidepressant (2018)

122 points by gdubs 5y ago

awestroke 5y ago
If you can't afford this antioxidant, try the slightly cheaper alternative: gold.
- hammock 5y ago
  Effective dose of saffron is much smaller than that of gold :)
- nerfhammer 5y ago
  https://www.amazon.com/s?k=saffron+capsules https://www.amazon.com/s?k=saffron+capsules I have no idea if saffron "extract" is effectively the same thing though
  - OJFord 5y ago
    In the UK and for vanilla at least, 'extract' must be extracted from the vanilla pod with a solution of alcohol; 'essence' is commonly used to market synthetic vanillin products. (I don't know if synthetic saffron even exists? For colouring purposes a mixture of turmeric & chilli powder - deggi mirch has particular vibrance - can be a good approximation for much less cost, but for flavour?) I believe in general 'extract' refers to alcohol extraction, in support of that, Wikipedia says of the US: > Natural vanilla flavoring is derived from vanilla beans with little to no alcohol. The maximum amount of alcohol that is usually present is only 2–3%. Therefore, by FDA regulations it cannot be called an extract.
pie420 5y ago
Reads like an undergrad class project and not a real study
- FabHK 5y ago
  That's maybe a bit unfair, but yes, they could have run it by an editor proficient in English: > In summary further research required to get a good quality data regarding saffron mechanism of action, effectiveness, and safety. [...] While results of increased mental wellness coupled with good short-term basic safety profile recommend saffron may be an exceedingly efficient alternative approach for the treating depression. It is at present unidentified that the positive results of saffron obtained during preliminary trials will proceeds in long-term health benefits until well-controlled and longer-term research are achieved.
chrisa 5y ago
This seems to be combining a couple of studies; the primary one seems to be 40 people over 6 weeks using the petals of saffron (but in another place said "leaves", so I'm not sure which is correct), but it's interesting that the petals have the effect and not just the stigma which is what is called "saffron" for cooking They also mentioned that it _might_ work by affecting serotonin in the brain, but no one actually knows yet; and in the conclusion they mention how this is only a first step at understanding the effects. So: looks kind of promising, but by no means a finished study yet. (also there were warnings about taking too much as it can be toxic and damaging for pregnancy so... read that carefully before buying some I suppose :) )
- bigmattystyles 5y ago
  >> They also mentioned that it _might_ work by affecting serotonin in the brain, but no one actually knows yet; I don't even think we know with regards to any substance, i.e even why SSRI work - I think we have some good hypothesis, but nothing conclusive. I've even seen an ad on CNN for tardive dyskinesia that says 'the <drug> is thought to do something to dopamine' - Doesn't exactly inspire confidence but having suffered from mental conditions, I'd still be willing to try it.
  - chrisa 5y ago
    Yes, that's true; like you say, no one even quite knows how SSRIs work, so this looks promising! Hopefully future studies show similar effects without some of the SSRI side effects
  - defaultname 5y ago
    As you mention, most SSRI ads specifically note that it is thought to work by inhibiting serotonin reuptake...maybe. There isn't even strong proof that serotonin plays the part popularly believed. But SSRIs work for many people, and do seem to have an effect, so the theoretical is good enough for now.
    - PragmaticPulp 5y ago
cwkoss 5y ago
I think the psychoactive effects of dietary ingredients are really interesting, and an area of research that deserves more attention. "Even in their usual intake range, a variety of spices including vanilla, black pepper, cacao, chili peppers, cloves, saffron, cinnamon, ginger, nutmeg, and turmeric have been described as having mild effects on mood" https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2019.00591/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2019.0059... I think we have relatively little understanding of how these psychoactive effects interact with co-ingestion of other ingredients. Certain ingredients can alter the metabolism of other ingredients (ex. black pepper and tumeric both inhibit MAO, potentiate each other and potentiate other ingredients). I find it plausible that some sort of 'spiced stew' consumed at a particular frequency could have clinically significant levels of therapeutic effect.
- cwkoss 5y ago
  Also plausible that a significant source of variance in pharmacological drugs' effects are due to differences in diet. Ex. are there statistically significant differences in the effects of SSRIs between patients with (high || low) use of black pepper/turmeric in their diets?
- dariusj18 5y ago
  Me and my gf once had Samosas that had an amazing effect, both aphrodisiacal and just feelings of contentment.
codelord 5y ago
I feel like people in the west need to become more familiar with Persian cooking. Every year I learn that one more ingredient that we commonly use in Persian cooking is good for your health. So based on this definitive evidence I'm gonna conclude everything we eat is good for you. To get you ahead here are some other things to try: 1. Sabzi Khordan: Elevate your breakfast with Sabzi Khordan, a mixed of herbs that are commonly eaten as breakfast with cheese and walnuts. 2. Drink properly brewed tea: If your idea of tea is what you get from Starbucks, you don't know what tea is. Try Persian brewed black tea. 3. Persian barberry rice: Try Persian style rice cooked with rice, salt, butter, barberries, and saffron. 4. Add turmeric to pretty much every stew. 5. Try Fesenjan, Ghormeh Sabzi, and Khoresh Gheymeh.
- selimthegrim 5y ago
  It can be hard to find the right cheese for sabzi khordan. Also some people find drinking tea out of the saucer weird.
  - codelord 5y ago
    Saucer is optional. I drink directly from the cup. Make sure the cup is made of clear glass though to see the color of the tea.
    - angrais 5y ago
      Why does where you drink from it matter, let alone its transparency?
      - cyberpunk 5y ago
        Dunno about Persian style tea; but the pu’erh I often drink tastes significantly better from a sake cup vs a “normal” double walled bodum tea glass. I can’t really explain why, cup shape does affect hiw much you drink per sip, maybe the nose is involved.. Or it’s all bollocks and completely in my head. Either way, sake cup is the way to go for puerh ;)
Bud 5y ago
I mean, who cares if it works medically as an antidepressant? Just thinking about eating anything with saffron in it automatically makes me feel happier. :)
stronglikedan 5y ago
Anecdotal, but it's helped me out of more than one bout of depression. I take ~0.12g per day for ~12 weeks when I realize I'm in one. I don't know if the brand matters, but I started with high quality, so I'm not taking any chances on others. I take half of one of these sachets per day (cheaper at whole foods): https://www.amazon.com/Krokos-Kozanis-Saffron-Powder-Cooperative/dp/B00IEKE5NG/ https://www.amazon.com/Krokos-Kozanis-Saffron-Powder-Coopera...
the_af 5y ago
Isn't saffron ultra expensive? It is in my country, at least. Prohibitively so.
- chrisa 5y ago
  This paper uses the petals (in one case they say leaves, but everywhere else they way petals), specifically because they aren't as expensive - so it seems the petals have the same chemicals as the stigma for this test
sillyquiet 5y ago
Unrelated but interesting, many medieval recipes included saffron, especially in pie crusts (coffins). https://giveitforth.blogspot.com/2019/03/harleian-ms-279-ab-1430-lv-iuschelle-of.html https://giveitforth.blogspot.com/2019/03/harleian-ms-279-ab-...
whycombagator 5y ago
As far as dosage: “For chronic supplementation, take 15mg of saffron, twice a day. This is the advised upper limit for constant supplementation. Preliminary evidence suggests that doubling this dose may have a toxic effect after eight weeks of continuous usage. Acute, single doses of saffron, can be as high as 200mg. Saffron can be supplemented by taking water extracts of the stigma (the red part of the plant, used as a spice) or by using the dehydrated stigma itself. Some evidence suggests that the petals of saffron may also be effective. Saffron can be taken twice a day in a supplement form, or at meals as a spice. Doses above 1,200mg may cause nasea and vomiting.”[0] [0] https://examine.com/supplements/saffron/ https://examine.com/supplements/saffron/ (Also for those unaware, Examine.com is very good)
twohearted 5y ago
They call it mellow yellow
- Centrino 5y ago
  Quite rightly!
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
wildmanx 5y ago
Now I get why a popular xmas time pastry in Sweden is saffron-based.
FabHK 5y ago
Fun fact: (maybe!) Saffron is, per unit of weight, the most expensive thing you can buy in many supermarkets. (That's my conjecture after noticing that the saffron in German supermarkets is about 10,000 to 30,000 EUR/kg, or 68,000 for the bio certified, hand picked, from a women-run enterprise: https://shop.rewe.de/p/herbaria-safran-faeden/VJ7R7E3DA https://shop.rewe.de/p/herbaria-safran-faeden/VJ7R7E3DA ) Any other contenders?
- OJFord 5y ago
  By weight?! Wow yeah, by far surely. Though by some sort of hand-wavy measure of 'amount you use', vanilla might take the lead. Ignoring the whopping (!) 10g bulk buy, cheapest I can get from Ocado in the UK is £4.68 for a gram. Vanilla pods start at £3 each (and no cheaper on Amazon other than in big bags, happened to be looking recently) and when you use one you use one; whereas the saffron probably won't be used all at once, again for a hand-wavy notion of 'similar sort of style/quantity' thing (despite obviously being totally different if one has vanilla and the other saffron..).
- bufferout 5y ago
  Gift cards?
  - FabHK 5y ago
    Ha, interesting, nice one. I just looked up that plastic credit cards weigh around 5 g, so a with a 50$ gift card you’d get close to the “cheap” saffron ($10,000/kg), but you’d need a 350$ or so gift card to beat the hand picked bio one.
ASalazarMX 5y ago
TIL saffron is harmless in regular cooking, but toxic above 5g, and lethal above 20g. Most presentations are less than 5g anyway, because authentic saffron is expensive.
miga 5y ago
This is from PubMed - public index of medical research, not an official stance of NIH.
sharadov 5y ago
Indian food uses a lot of saffron Biryani - a rice dish with meat, spices and saffron Kheer - a rice pudding with milk + cardamom + saffron + sugar Since saffron is expensive, the right way to use it is to drop a few strings in a glass of water or milk and let it sit for a couple hrs. It really brings out the flavor. Then you can use it whatever dish you are cooking.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

122 points by gdubs 5y ago

awestroke 5y ago

If you can't afford this antioxidant, try the slightly cheaper alternative: gold.

hammock 5y ago
Effective dose of saffron is much smaller than that of gold :)
nerfhammer 5y ago
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=saffron+capsules https://www.amazon.com/s?k=saffron+capsules I have no idea if saffron "extract" is effectively the same thing though
- OJFord 5y ago
  In the UK and for vanilla at least, 'extract' must be extracted from the vanilla pod with a solution of alcohol; 'essence' is commonly used to market synthetic vanillin products. (I don't know if synthetic saffron even exists? For colouring purposes a mixture of turmeric & chilli powder - deggi mirch has particular vibrance - can be a good approximation for much less cost, but for flavour?) I believe in general 'extract' refers to alcohol extraction, in support of that, Wikipedia says of the US: > Natural vanilla flavoring is derived from vanilla beans with little to no alcohol. The maximum amount of alcohol that is usually present is only 2–3%. Therefore, by FDA regulations it cannot be called an extract.

pie420 5y ago

Reads like an undergrad class project and not a real study

FabHK 5y ago
That's maybe a bit unfair, but yes, they could have run it by an editor proficient in English: > In summary further research required to get a good quality data regarding saffron mechanism of action, effectiveness, and safety. [...] While results of increased mental wellness coupled with good short-term basic safety profile recommend saffron may be an exceedingly efficient alternative approach for the treating depression. It is at present unidentified that the positive results of saffron obtained during preliminary trials will proceeds in long-term health benefits until well-controlled and longer-term research are achieved.

chrisa 5y ago

This seems to be combining a couple of studies; the primary one seems to be 40 people over 6 weeks using the petals of saffron (but in another place said "leaves", so I'm not sure which is correct), but it's interesting that the petals have the effect and not just the stigma which is what is called "saffron" for cooking They also mentioned that it _might_ work by affecting serotonin in the brain, but no one actually knows yet; and in the conclusion they mention how this is only a first step at understanding the effects. So: looks kind of promising, but by no means a finished study yet. (also there were warnings about taking too much as it can be toxic and damaging for pregnancy so... read that carefully before buying some I suppose :) )

bigmattystyles 5y ago
>> They also mentioned that it _might_ work by affecting serotonin in the brain, but no one actually knows yet; I don't even think we know with regards to any substance, i.e even why SSRI work - I think we have some good hypothesis, but nothing conclusive. I've even seen an ad on CNN for tardive dyskinesia that says 'the <drug> is thought to do something to dopamine' - Doesn't exactly inspire confidence but having suffered from mental conditions, I'd still be willing to try it.
- chrisa 5y ago
  Yes, that's true; like you say, no one even quite knows how SSRIs work, so this looks promising! Hopefully future studies show similar effects without some of the SSRI side effects
- defaultname 5y ago
  As you mention, most SSRI ads specifically note that it is thought to work by inhibiting serotonin reuptake...maybe. There isn't even strong proof that serotonin plays the part popularly believed. But SSRIs work for many people, and do seem to have an effect, so the theoretical is good enough for now.
  - PragmaticPulp 5y ago

cwkoss 5y ago

I think the psychoactive effects of dietary ingredients are really interesting, and an area of research that deserves more attention. "Even in their usual intake range, a variety of spices including vanilla, black pepper, cacao, chili peppers, cloves, saffron, cinnamon, ginger, nutmeg, and turmeric have been described as having mild effects on mood" https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2019.00591/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2019.0059... I think we have relatively little understanding of how these psychoactive effects interact with co-ingestion of other ingredients. Certain ingredients can alter the metabolism of other ingredients (ex. black pepper and tumeric both inhibit MAO, potentiate each other and potentiate other ingredients). I find it plausible that some sort of 'spiced stew' consumed at a particular frequency could have clinically significant levels of therapeutic effect.

cwkoss 5y ago
Also plausible that a significant source of variance in pharmacological drugs' effects are due to differences in diet. Ex. are there statistically significant differences in the effects of SSRIs between patients with (high || low) use of black pepper/turmeric in their diets?
dariusj18 5y ago
Me and my gf once had Samosas that had an amazing effect, both aphrodisiacal and just feelings of contentment.

codelord 5y ago

I feel like people in the west need to become more familiar with Persian cooking. Every year I learn that one more ingredient that we commonly use in Persian cooking is good for your health. So based on this definitive evidence I'm gonna conclude everything we eat is good for you. To get you ahead here are some other things to try: 1. Sabzi Khordan: Elevate your breakfast with Sabzi Khordan, a mixed of herbs that are commonly eaten as breakfast with cheese and walnuts. 2. Drink properly brewed tea: If your idea of tea is what you get from Starbucks, you don't know what tea is. Try Persian brewed black tea. 3. Persian barberry rice: Try Persian style rice cooked with rice, salt, butter, barberries, and saffron. 4. Add turmeric to pretty much every stew. 5. Try Fesenjan, Ghormeh Sabzi, and Khoresh Gheymeh.

selimthegrim 5y ago
It can be hard to find the right cheese for sabzi khordan. Also some people find drinking tea out of the saucer weird.
- codelord 5y ago
  Saucer is optional. I drink directly from the cup. Make sure the cup is made of clear glass though to see the color of the tea.
  - angrais 5y ago
    Why does where you drink from it matter, let alone its transparency?
    - cyberpunk 5y ago
      Dunno about Persian style tea; but the pu’erh I often drink tastes significantly better from a sake cup vs a “normal” double walled bodum tea glass. I can’t really explain why, cup shape does affect hiw much you drink per sip, maybe the nose is involved.. Or it’s all bollocks and completely in my head. Either way, sake cup is the way to go for puerh ;)

Bud 5y ago

I mean, who cares if it works medically as an antidepressant? Just thinking about eating anything with saffron in it automatically makes me feel happier. :)

stronglikedan 5y ago

Anecdotal, but it's helped me out of more than one bout of depression. I take ~0.12g per day for ~12 weeks when I realize I'm in one. I don't know if the brand matters, but I started with high quality, so I'm not taking any chances on others. I take half of one of these sachets per day (cheaper at whole foods): https://www.amazon.com/Krokos-Kozanis-Saffron-Powder-Cooperative/dp/B00IEKE5NG/ https://www.amazon.com/Krokos-Kozanis-Saffron-Powder-Coopera...

the_af 5y ago

Isn't saffron ultra expensive? It is in my country, at least. Prohibitively so.

chrisa 5y ago
This paper uses the petals (in one case they say leaves, but everywhere else they way petals), specifically because they aren't as expensive - so it seems the petals have the same chemicals as the stigma for this test

sillyquiet 5y ago

Unrelated but interesting, many medieval recipes included saffron, especially in pie crusts (coffins). https://giveitforth.blogspot.com/2019/03/harleian-ms-279-ab-1430-lv-iuschelle-of.html https://giveitforth.blogspot.com/2019/03/harleian-ms-279-ab-...

whycombagator 5y ago

As far as dosage: “For chronic supplementation, take 15mg of saffron, twice a day. This is the advised upper limit for constant supplementation. Preliminary evidence suggests that doubling this dose may have a toxic effect after eight weeks of continuous usage. Acute, single doses of saffron, can be as high as 200mg. Saffron can be supplemented by taking water extracts of the stigma (the red part of the plant, used as a spice) or by using the dehydrated stigma itself. Some evidence suggests that the petals of saffron may also be effective. Saffron can be taken twice a day in a supplement form, or at meals as a spice. Doses above 1,200mg may cause nasea and vomiting.”[0] [0] https://examine.com/supplements/saffron/ https://examine.com/supplements/saffron/ (Also for those unaware, Examine.com is very good)

twohearted 5y ago

They call it mellow yellow

Centrino 5y ago
Quite rightly!

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

wildmanx 5y ago

Now I get why a popular xmas time pastry in Sweden is saffron-based.

FabHK 5y ago

Fun fact: (maybe!) Saffron is, per unit of weight, the most expensive thing you can buy in many supermarkets. (That's my conjecture after noticing that the saffron in German supermarkets is about 10,000 to 30,000 EUR/kg, or 68,000 for the bio certified, hand picked, from a women-run enterprise: https://shop.rewe.de/p/herbaria-safran-faeden/VJ7R7E3DA https://shop.rewe.de/p/herbaria-safran-faeden/VJ7R7E3DA ) Any other contenders?

OJFord 5y ago
By weight?! Wow yeah, by far surely. Though by some sort of hand-wavy measure of 'amount you use', vanilla might take the lead. Ignoring the whopping (!) 10g bulk buy, cheapest I can get from Ocado in the UK is £4.68 for a gram. Vanilla pods start at £3 each (and no cheaper on Amazon other than in big bags, happened to be looking recently) and when you use one you use one; whereas the saffron probably won't be used all at once, again for a hand-wavy notion of 'similar sort of style/quantity' thing (despite obviously being totally different if one has vanilla and the other saffron..).
bufferout 5y ago
Gift cards?
- FabHK 5y ago
  Ha, interesting, nice one. I just looked up that plastic credit cards weigh around 5 g, so a with a 50$ gift card you’d get close to the “cheap” saffron ($10,000/kg), but you’d need a 350$ or so gift card to beat the hand picked bio one.

ASalazarMX 5y ago

TIL saffron is harmless in regular cooking, but toxic above 5g, and lethal above 20g. Most presentations are less than 5g anyway, because authentic saffron is expensive.

miga 5y ago

This is from PubMed - public index of medical research, not an official stance of NIH.

sharadov 5y ago

Indian food uses a lot of saffron Biryani - a rice dish with meat, spices and saffron Kheer - a rice pudding with milk + cardamom + saffron + sugar Since saffron is expensive, the right way to use it is to drop a few strings in a glass of water or milk and let it sit for a couple hrs. It really brings out the flavor. Then you can use it whatever dish you are cooking.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]