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Reply of the Zaporozhian Cossacks
- owenversteeg 5y agoOne of my favorite paintings! The canvas seems alive, I feel like I'm there just looking at it. It's been here once before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19946989 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19946989
- danielodievich 5y agoInteresting tidbit, this painting was one of the required pieces of Soviet school in late USSR, I think in grade 4 or 5 in the Russian language curriculum. We were assigned this painting - and a few others over the school year - as a topic of essay, where you had to describe what was depicted and its meaning to you and your country. The minimal accepted size of essay was 3 pages, I believe. I remember doing a very careful study of all the fine details on the jackets and various arms that cossacks had in the painting reproduction that I happened to have in some nicer book, the schoolbook picture was too tiny to really appreciate. Another Ilya Repin picture that was assigned as that kind of essay target was Barge Haulers on the Volga (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barge_Haulers_on_the_Volga https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barge_Haulers_on_the_Volga)
- lehi 5y agoI prefer Repin's Ivan the Terrible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_the_Terrible_and_His_Son_Ivan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_the_Terrible_and_His_Son_...
- ajcp 5y agoI agree. Absolutely haunting.
- robin_reala 5y agoThe model for the son was the author Garshin, whom are pin also painted an amazing portrait of: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/437442 https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/437442 (If you’re interested in Garshin, I collected his translated works for Standard Ebooks: https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/vsevolod-garshin/short-fiction/rowland-smith https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/vsevolod-garshin/short-fic...)
- kozak 5y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQTlT8-qYUk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQTlT8-qYUk
- tptacek 5y agoAskHistorians seems to believe pretty strongly that this letter never happened, which may be obvious to people familiar with the story, but I'm hearing it for the first time in the context of this HN post. :) A good thread on the history of, uh, stern Russian responses to threats: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/e1qciu/in_reply_of_the_zaporozhian_cossacks_how_is/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/e1qciu/in_re...
- zaporozhets 5y ago*Ukrainian Edit: misread context- kneejerk Ukrainian > Russian correction. Although I’d still want it clear that this is Ukrainian history more than Russian.
- ggm 5y agoSo how about 'le mot de cambronne' or the reply from the battle of the bulge? ("nuts")
- kozak 5y agoLooks like we have perfect nicknames for commenting under this post.
- 0x737368 5y agoAt that point in time Russian-Ukrainian history was tight knit. It is after Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth influence of Western Ukraine did what I assume your understanding of the difference between Russia-Ukraine's history start.
- xyzzy_plugh 5y agoReferring to Zaporozhian Cossacks as Russian is quite a stretch, and sure to upset Ukrainians. Cossacks generally are a part of Russian-Ukrainian history, but this group has typically been considered Ukrainian, based on their geography and ultimate integration into Ukraine. In truth, the Zaporozhian Cossacks were their own people, to classify them as strictly Russian or Ukrainian somewhat erases their culture and history.
- incrudible 5y agoCan we get Dan Carlin to narrate this one?
- ajcp 5y ago"...SEE what you have to understannnnnnd...about the Zaporozian Cossackssss...is that EVEN THOUGH the Ottoman Sultan was the ruler of the largestempireintheworld, with the largestarmyintheworld...who had so many times before crushed all...that stood in its way...the Zaporozian Cossackssss...were a people of their own time...were a proud people with their own martial traditionssssss..."
- pepperonipizza 5y agoWith time I cringe a bit when he takes this voice, still love his work.
- ajcp 5y agoI call it his "Context Voice". Drives me up the wall because it slows down the story momentum he builds so well, but yeah, love his work.
- ericol 5y agoWhen I was ~14 yo, my father used to get his friends over most nights. They were usually 1 or 2, and they would stay for dinner. One of those nights my younger brother brought some sort of survey from school, regarding the family and related assorted questions. I think it's important to note that every night my father and his friends would down a couple bottles of cheap wine. So, my father got to the task of filling the survey, with the assistance of his friends. Eventually he got to a question where he had to fill his current occupation. ¡Malviviente!* yelled my father, and he and friends burst out in drunken laughter. He filled the question with such answer. He - and my mother - were promptly summoned by the school to explain that answer. Rest assured my mom was not pleased at all. * This word can be roughly translated to thug, but taken literally can mean "One that does not live well".
- reaperducer 5y agoRelated, but less interesting: When my wife gets annoyed filling out forms for places that don't need to know her occupation (doctor, pharmacy, etc.), she puts down "art thief." Nobody's said boo to her yet about it.
- ericol 5y agoWait for INTERPOL to show up at your door any time now :P
- robbyt 5y agoI always write "comedian"... (And I bet that made you laugh, which is proof)
- lmilcin 5y agoIf you want to be a comedian you need to stop explaining your jokes. Good ones don't need explaining.
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- diminish 5y agoVery fun to read how the assumption to aristocratic power in 19th century comes from ancient kingdoms, celestial objects and religious figures. - ruler of the kingdoms of Macedonia, Babylon, Jerusalem, Upper and Lower Egypt; - brother of the sun and moon; - son of Muhammad; steadfast guardian of the tomb of Jesus Christ; grandson and viceroy of God, trustee chosen by God Himself;
- Ericson2314 5y agoThe interest in classical antiquity was not just a European phenomenon. And the Ottomans were very well positioned to lay claim to that past, controlling the right land and also running a multi-ethnic empire in the "Achaemenid, Hellenistic, Roman" tradition.
- 8bitsrule 5y agoTime has tended to overlook the Ottoman Empire. The few times I've mentioned it, people often haven't heard much about it. And are very surprised to learn that it was a party in WW1 .. after existing for 600 years ... after they'd tossed out the Mongols that invaded Europe in the 1200s. Out of the fire, into the frying pan.
- 0xbkt 5y agoHere's another one from Suleiman the Magnificent's letter to Francis I of France who was then in conflict with Holy Roman Emperor Charles V and asking for Suleiman's help: I who am the Sultan of Sultans, the sovereign of sovereigns, the dispenser of crowns to the monarchs on the face of the earth, the shadow of the God on Earth, the Sultan and sovereign lord of the Mediterranean Sea and of the Black Sea, of Rumelia and of Anatolia, of Karamania, of the land of Romans, of Dhulkadria, of Diyarbakir, of Kurdistan, of Azerbaijan, of Persia, of Damascus, of Aleppo, of Cairo, of Mecca, of Medina, of Jerusalem, of all Arabia, of Yemen and of many other lands which my noble fore-fathers and my glorious ancestors (may God light up their tombs!) conquered by the force of their arms and which my August Majesty has made subject to my flamboyant sword and my victorious blade, I, Sultan Suleiman Khan, son of Sultan Selim Khan, son of Sultan Bayezid Khan...
- recursivedoubts 5y agoInteresting history, but I prefer the laconic reply: "If." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laconic_phrase https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laconic_phrase
- smogcutter 5y agoWith the ironic epilogue that Philip proceeded to kick their asses: https://twitter.com/bretdevereaux/status/1346686713838653440?s=21 https://twitter.com/bretdevereaux/status/1346686713838653440... And a followup about the evidence (contra Wikipedia): https://twitter.com/garglfluz/status/1350835754335924225?s=21 https://twitter.com/garglfluz/status/1350835754335924225?s=2...
- kasey_junk 5y ago“Having come, take them.” “Sounds good”.
- bewaretheirs 5y agoAnd, more recently: "NUTS!". https://www.army.mil/article/92856/the_story_of_the_nuts_reply https://www.army.mil/article/92856/the_story_of_the_nuts_rep...
- stavros 5y agoI wonder if this is the same as modern Greek, where "if" can also mean "when". I.e. "When I invade, I will turn you out". "If". A more literal translation would be "upon", which can have both meanings. "Upon arrival" can both mean "if he comes" or "when he comes". Looks like the original said "ἂν ἐμβάλω εἰς τὴν Λακωνικήν, ἀναστάτους ὑμᾶς ποιήσω", which is the word for "if", but I don't know if the meaning of "when" was there in ancient Greek too.
- olegp 5y agoIt's on display in Helsinki at the moment. Highly recommend checking the exhibition out if you happen to be in town: https://ateneum.fi/en/exhibitions/repin/ https://ateneum.fi/en/exhibitions/repin/ I personally liked the portrait of the last tsar the most: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Nicolas_II_of_Russia_by_Iliya_Repin.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Nicolas_II_of_Russia... It got me thinking that things could have turned out very different for Russia had his personality been different.
- aasasd 5y agoThe portrait can conveniently serve as that of George V, if the uniform is replaced.
- 13of40 5y agoI would have said he looks like a sadder version of Christian IX: https://www.alamy.com/christian-ix-of-denmark-1818-1906-image360351492.html https://www.alamy.com/christian-ix-of-denmark-1818-1906-imag...
- aasasd 5y agoWell, cousins ‘Nicky and Georgie’ looked more than a wee bit similar: https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f6/b1/0d/f6b10de7c150d733980a57c87b7c6da8--rei-george-king-george.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f6/b1/0d/f6b10de7c150d733980a57c87...
- trhway 5y agoto visualize the characters - depiction of the Zaporozhian Cossacks from not that bad a movie "With Fire and Sword" about the rebellion https://youtu.be/4j4AYK8KGKU?t=7 https://youtu.be/4j4AYK8KGKU?t=7
- Smithalicious 5y agoFor some reason I read "Zoroastrian cossacks"... And did not even question it until much later.
- dang 5y agoOne past thread: Reply of the Zaporozhian Cossacks - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19946989 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19946989 - May 2019 (13 comments)
- jakub_g 5y agoIn Polish language slang, 'kozak' (Polish spelling of cossack) got cemented as a word for someone brave and fearless. Basically, someone writing that kind of letter :) or someone Chuck Norris-like.
- growup12345 5y agoLol. FYI it’s the same in any slavic/Balkan language.
- jhrmnn 5y agoNot in Czech or Slovak. [edit] Ok, apparently it used to be so, at least in Czech, but I had to look it up in a dictionary. Not present-day use.
- growup12345 5y agoOf course you did. All of these languages were very similar to each other more than 100 years ago but were actively forced to diverge for political reasons during the turbulent 20th century. Czech/Slovak/Polish Macedonian/Serbian/Bulgarian Croatian/Slovenian Of course outliers like Romanian/Greek/Turkish/Albanian/Hungarian are different by construction. But even they shared extensive vocabulary with the rest due to the free flow of (rich) people between the countries.
- jhrmnn 5y agoThe forced divergence for political reasons might be true for the Balkan languages, but not for the Central European ones. The only artificial force in Czech has been the attempt to get rid of the German influence, and judging by the huge similarities in morphology of Czech to German, it wasn’t very successful.
- b0rsuk 5y agoAlso proud and a braggart. In some contexts it has a slightly negative meaning, such as someone who takes unnecessary risks just to make an impression. Playing chicken etc.
- glangdale 5y agoIn the Good Soldier Sveijk, Hasek recounts (via a character) that famous, if apocryphal tale of the French commander Pierre Cambronne, who when asked to surrender, supposedly said "Merde! The guard dies, but does not yield!". I think Victor Hugo made this up, but it's still a good story.
- cratermoon 5y agoThose are some great insults.
- stevespang 5y agoSomebody send a copy of this to Putin, as per the Ukraine-Russia conflict still raging on . . . .
- IgorPartola 5y agoAs a Ukrainian, one of my favorite paintings :). I like to look at it before writing up any kind of letter of resignation. Fun fact: the Russian language Wikipedia article has a bit more detail about the creation of this painting. Repin used his colleagues as models and the one who the Cossack with the bald pate is based on had to be tricked into modeling since he was self conscious about his hair.
- hirundo 5y agoThe American variation is more laconic: https://i.pinimg.com/564x/cb/4a/a9/cb4aa9b3ae732520a22e146d9f18567e.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/564x/cb/4a/a9/cb4aa9b3ae732520a22e146d9... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_McAuliffe#%22NUTS!%22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_McAuliffe#%22NUTS!%22
- ticviking 5y agoThis is my favorite painting of all time and a print is in my study to remind me how not to respond to unreasonable deadlines imposed by management.
- galfarragem 5y agoFor a better understanding of Zaporozian Cossacks I recommend Taras Bulba from Gogol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taras_Bulba https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taras_Bulba
- 0ld 5y agoi’d only advice to go for the 1st edition - the second was "modifed" to fit the tsarist narratives (e.g. "russia" was added everywhere, which was obviously absent originally)
- AHASIC 5y agoGreat pic, didn't know its origin. I know it from being on the cover of one of the games in the Cossacks game series.
- culebron21 5y agoRepin, Surikov and other painters of end of XIX century drew many paintings with such historic plots, and we had them as illustrations in the History of Russia schoolbook. Only when I came to the Russian Museum (paintings gallery), did I realize these were celebrated masterpieces, not just drawings for the book. Surikov drew in his Petersburg (IIRC) apartment and stood close to the paintings, hence they're packed with characters. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Surikov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Surikov
- pantalaimon 5y agoBöhmermann would then repeat this 340 years later.