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These are one of the few times I can say that I don't care if Boston Dynamics are making money as yet. Boston Dynamics are one of the few real serious players

These are one of the few times I can say that I don't care if Boston Dynamics are making money as yet. Boston Dynamics are one of the few real serious players in the robotics space worldwide doing deep R&D. Hyundai are basically paying for the BD Labs research. And they are well positioned to reap the products and techniques from the lab with their own manufacturing and engineering prowess and experience over the next decade. And it won't be walking dogs. It will be things like a little flexi-joint in a car that you buy without knowing (or caring) it's in there. Or some industrial machine that Hyundai builds that gives them a 5% competitive edge in the manufacturing of it that 99.9999% of us never hear about. But for that it's worth it. Very happy to see people put good money into this Lab.

nly 5y ago
Robots that build cars seem most likely? Not sure how many staff your average car factory has, but due to sheer product complexity it's still more than other industries like food manufacturing. Maybe we'll see vast car factories, churning out thousands of cars per day, with only a half dozen staff in years to come?
- eric4smith 5y ago
  That's a good assumption to make. They for sure see 800M+ value in it.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- weego 5y ago
  Robots already build cars, and supply of new cars is often out-stripped by demand. It's not really new ground. The limitations in car production are always the component supply chain, not the actual manufacture.
  - nly 5y ago
    Google image search "car factory" and it's super obviously it's quite labour intensive. I'm not sure why an investment in robots has to be "new ground".
    - newsclues 5y ago
      You are right, modern car manufacturers still use humans in assembly lines. But to see how much robots actually do nowadays, compare that to auto assembly from decades ago when robots were new, or further back when they did not exist
      - jrwoodruff 5y ago
        Yup! And really, the highly, highly automated processes in car manufacturing are in the stamping, body construction and painting phases. Almost no humans involved in those three major phases. Final Assembly is the most labor intensive, because it involves lots of fiddly little parts going into hard to reach places. Even then, it's usually robot-assisted tasks, so one person is installing a seat, where it would usually take two, or something like that.
    - mikeyouse 5y ago
      The Google Image search isn't reflective of an actual car factory.. There are of course hundreds of workers there but final assembly facilities produce something like 1 car/minute. They're heavily reliant on robots - most of the parts move around the floor on autonomous transports, the stamping is all robotic, all of the frame welding is robotic, paint is of course robotic. GM is of course tied in with the UAW, so they're going to be as favorable to labor as possible in their promo videos, but take a look at this video of one of their production facilities, this is reflective of the amount of manual input into modern automotive production: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ow7gmZTIpo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ow7gmZTIpo
      - jrwoodruff 5y ago
        I've toured this plant. They don't show it in this video, but in the stamping and body areas of the plant, they don't even have the lights on at task levels - it's a dusk-level lighting until a human enters the space. This plant was built circa 2006, and is pretty amazing. Bring steel coils into one side of the factory, get a fully assembled car from the other side.
- LinuxBender 5y ago
  Maybe. Another possible variant on that idea could be micro-factories [1] that address delivery constraints and allow a factory to be located anywhere there is a small warehouse. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_Qyor9Yc-s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_Qyor9Yc-s
  - eloff 5y ago
    Seems that would be a supply chain nightmare, plus it would multiply capital costs. I doubt it's worth it.
- RegW 5y ago
  In a factory setting I would have thought existing robots would suffice. Looking at the wider group, I would think there's lots of roles for robotics in construction. Delivery of heavy items across uneven terrain or up stairs - may be something like a robotic hod carrier.
  - jcims 5y ago
    They are pretty great at welding and painting, they not as good at attaching bumpers or trunk lids, and terrible at running wire looms through doors or installing headliners. Also from my last visit at an assembly plant ~5 years ago, most plants are still on large conveyors vs. driving individual vehicles around the plant, and materials handling is still in the 90's with little stripe-following tugs slowly moving about the place.
hkmurakami 5y ago
I imagine Hyundai Motors has loose informal connections and regular collaborative efforts with other former Hyundai Group companies, including Hyundai Heavy Industries and Hyundai Robotics, so hopefully there'll be some smooth expertise sharing there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Heavy_Industries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Heavy_Industries https://www.hyundai-robotics.com/english/ https://www.hyundai-robotics.com/english/
- NoImmatureAdHom 5y ago
  Hyundai is one of South Korea's market-dominating cartels, the chaebol: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaebol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaebol "regular collaborative efforts" is an understatement.
kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
Great for Hyundai. Not such a good ROI for the taxpayers who kept BD afloat with decades of DARPA funding.
- judgardner 5y ago
  Assess the DARPA funding as a portfolio.
  - noir_lord 5y ago
    Agreed - one of the benefits of DARPA is they fund long-shots which once proven viable (or not) are then commercially developed. This is a good outcome, the money wasn't 'wasted' since it spurred development in a particular area of interest to DARPA - advanced robotics.
  - blamazon 5y ago
    “DARPA Awards Moderna Therapeutics a Grant for up to $25 Million to Develop Messenger RNA Therapeutics” (2013) https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/darpa-awards-moderna-therapeutics-grant-25-million-develop https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-d...
    - vibrio 5y ago
      I believe DARPA is a national treasure, and has driven a ton of otherwise neglected innovation, but let's not overstate their contribution to Moderna. For exsmple, AstraZeneca did a deal with Moderna including a $240MM upfront to another $180MM for potential milestones six months before the DARPA money. That is all on top of a pile of venture money and other corporate deals over those few years. The value of the DARPA $25MM wasn't the money per se, it was the incentive for Moderna to keep a toe in infectious disease, which was a hobby for them (and the industry) at best before COVID. I believe the platform would have been established with or without the DARPA money. https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/astrazeneca-and-moderna-therapeutics-announce-exclusive https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-d...
nitin_flanker 5y ago
Hyundai has it's own Robotic labs too. They have plenty of reasons to invest in Boston Dynamics, apart from just car parts. In addition, Robots manufacturing cars or car parts, improving their own robotic products could be another reason behind this.
nine_k 5y ago
The key competence of BD is locomotion on legs. There are plenty of other companies that make stationary industrial robots, and a few who make wheeled robots. But there are still a number of areas where wheeled robots are at a disadvantage: inspection of complex industrial installations (like complex pipework and other hard-to-reach areas), firefighting and rescue operations, well, even delivery in places with steps and stairways. Korea is more technophilic than USA, and Hyundai is well-connected. They may find a more ready market for such products.
- MisterBastahrd 5y ago
  There are plenty of patents along the way to get to locomotion on legs that have uses that don't necessarily need to be applied in that manner. Hyundai gets all of those too.
jazzyjackson 5y ago
Automatic plugs for electric cars would be a welcome update, like getting your gas pumped in Jersey

nly 5y ago

Robots that build cars seem most likely? Not sure how many staff your average car factory has, but due to sheer product complexity it's still more than other industries like food manufacturing. Maybe we'll see vast car factories, churning out thousands of cars per day, with only a half dozen staff in years to come?

eric4smith 5y ago
That's a good assumption to make. They for sure see 800M+ value in it.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
weego 5y ago
Robots already build cars, and supply of new cars is often out-stripped by demand. It's not really new ground. The limitations in car production are always the component supply chain, not the actual manufacture.
- nly 5y ago
  Google image search "car factory" and it's super obviously it's quite labour intensive. I'm not sure why an investment in robots has to be "new ground".
  - newsclues 5y ago
    You are right, modern car manufacturers still use humans in assembly lines. But to see how much robots actually do nowadays, compare that to auto assembly from decades ago when robots were new, or further back when they did not exist
    - jrwoodruff 5y ago
      Yup! And really, the highly, highly automated processes in car manufacturing are in the stamping, body construction and painting phases. Almost no humans involved in those three major phases. Final Assembly is the most labor intensive, because it involves lots of fiddly little parts going into hard to reach places. Even then, it's usually robot-assisted tasks, so one person is installing a seat, where it would usually take two, or something like that.
  - mikeyouse 5y ago
    The Google Image search isn't reflective of an actual car factory.. There are of course hundreds of workers there but final assembly facilities produce something like 1 car/minute. They're heavily reliant on robots - most of the parts move around the floor on autonomous transports, the stamping is all robotic, all of the frame welding is robotic, paint is of course robotic. GM is of course tied in with the UAW, so they're going to be as favorable to labor as possible in their promo videos, but take a look at this video of one of their production facilities, this is reflective of the amount of manual input into modern automotive production: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ow7gmZTIpo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ow7gmZTIpo
    - jrwoodruff 5y ago
      I've toured this plant. They don't show it in this video, but in the stamping and body areas of the plant, they don't even have the lights on at task levels - it's a dusk-level lighting until a human enters the space. This plant was built circa 2006, and is pretty amazing. Bring steel coils into one side of the factory, get a fully assembled car from the other side.
LinuxBender 5y ago
Maybe. Another possible variant on that idea could be micro-factories [1] that address delivery constraints and allow a factory to be located anywhere there is a small warehouse. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_Qyor9Yc-s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_Qyor9Yc-s
- eloff 5y ago
  Seems that would be a supply chain nightmare, plus it would multiply capital costs. I doubt it's worth it.
RegW 5y ago
In a factory setting I would have thought existing robots would suffice. Looking at the wider group, I would think there's lots of roles for robotics in construction. Delivery of heavy items across uneven terrain or up stairs - may be something like a robotic hod carrier.
- jcims 5y ago
  They are pretty great at welding and painting, they not as good at attaching bumpers or trunk lids, and terrible at running wire looms through doors or installing headliners. Also from my last visit at an assembly plant ~5 years ago, most plants are still on large conveyors vs. driving individual vehicles around the plant, and materials handling is still in the 90's with little stripe-following tugs slowly moving about the place.

hkmurakami 5y ago

I imagine Hyundai Motors has loose informal connections and regular collaborative efforts with other former Hyundai Group companies, including Hyundai Heavy Industries and Hyundai Robotics, so hopefully there'll be some smooth expertise sharing there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Heavy_Industries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Heavy_Industries https://www.hyundai-robotics.com/english/ https://www.hyundai-robotics.com/english/

NoImmatureAdHom 5y ago
Hyundai is one of South Korea's market-dominating cartels, the chaebol: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaebol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaebol "regular collaborative efforts" is an understatement.

kevin_thibedeau 5y ago

Great for Hyundai. Not such a good ROI for the taxpayers who kept BD afloat with decades of DARPA funding.

judgardner 5y ago
Assess the DARPA funding as a portfolio.
- noir_lord 5y ago
  Agreed - one of the benefits of DARPA is they fund long-shots which once proven viable (or not) are then commercially developed. This is a good outcome, the money wasn't 'wasted' since it spurred development in a particular area of interest to DARPA - advanced robotics.
- blamazon 5y ago
  “DARPA Awards Moderna Therapeutics a Grant for up to $25 Million to Develop Messenger RNA Therapeutics” (2013) https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/darpa-awards-moderna-therapeutics-grant-25-million-develop https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-d...
  - vibrio 5y ago
    I believe DARPA is a national treasure, and has driven a ton of otherwise neglected innovation, but let's not overstate their contribution to Moderna. For exsmple, AstraZeneca did a deal with Moderna including a $240MM upfront to another $180MM for potential milestones six months before the DARPA money. That is all on top of a pile of venture money and other corporate deals over those few years. The value of the DARPA $25MM wasn't the money per se, it was the incentive for Moderna to keep a toe in infectious disease, which was a hobby for them (and the industry) at best before COVID. I believe the platform would have been established with or without the DARPA money. https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/astrazeneca-and-moderna-therapeutics-announce-exclusive https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-d...

nitin_flanker 5y ago

Hyundai has it's own Robotic labs too. They have plenty of reasons to invest in Boston Dynamics, apart from just car parts. In addition, Robots manufacturing cars or car parts, improving their own robotic products could be another reason behind this.

nine_k 5y ago

The key competence of BD is locomotion on legs. There are plenty of other companies that make stationary industrial robots, and a few who make wheeled robots. But there are still a number of areas where wheeled robots are at a disadvantage: inspection of complex industrial installations (like complex pipework and other hard-to-reach areas), firefighting and rescue operations, well, even delivery in places with steps and stairways. Korea is more technophilic than USA, and Hyundai is well-connected. They may find a more ready market for such products.

MisterBastahrd 5y ago
There are plenty of patents along the way to get to locomotion on legs that have uses that don't necessarily need to be applied in that manner. Hyundai gets all of those too.

jazzyjackson 5y ago

Automatic plugs for electric cars would be a welcome update, like getting your gas pumped in Jersey