6 ms·

> When the stock goes from 200 to 3500 in 10 years, and consistently goes up and to the right, you won’t find too many of the workers complaining no matter how

> When the stock goes from 200 to 3500 in 10 years, and consistently goes up and to the right, you won’t find too many of the workers complaining no matter how bad the job conditions are. Tell that to the guys in logistics who don't get any options and bear the brunt of Amazon's bad management.

civilian 5y ago
So, elaborate on your model of the world. Shouldn't the logistic employees already be leaving in droves since they're not getting stock? Why aren't they?
- htrp 5y ago
  > Amazon burns through workers so quickly that executives are worried they'll run out of people to employ, according to a new report Sources: https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-warehouse-turnover-worker-shortage-2021-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-warehouse-turnover-wo... https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/06/15/us/amazon-workers.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/06/15/us/amazon-wor...
  - subsubzero 5y ago
    I know I will never work for them, they constantly reach out to me and its all nope on my side. As a side note there's always new college grads(a sucker born every minute according to PT Barnum) willing to suffer for their chance to work at a FANG.
    - Clewza313 5y ago
      I haven't seen too many threads on HN complaining about the work conditions at any FAANG other than Amazon though?
- wiz21c 5y ago
  because they may not have other job opportunities ? Because being screwed is better than having no job at all ?
- thephyber 5y ago
  > Why aren't they? Do you have evidence they aren’t? I was under the impression Amazon warehouse logistics employees had extremely high turnover (averaging less than 1 year). I suspect I agree with you that logistics workers realize they are on a lower rung of the ladder and are willing to work for less compensation. I suspect much of janitorial and security staff in Amazon HQ probably have no access to stock options either.
  - a3n 5y ago
    > I suspect much of janitorial and security staff in Amazon HQ probably have no access to stock options either. It's likely that security and janitorial are 3rd party contractors and have no access to anything available from Amazon whatsoever.
    - simfree 5y ago
      Amazon's security works for Securitas at the Seattle campus, and turnover is extremely high as they try shenanigans like "Cover the Alarm Panel, do entryway guarding at the main entrance at the same time (despite both requiring 24/7 physical presence and not being in the same area of the building)". Amazon has very high security staffing requirements compared to most other Seattle companies. Absolutely bonkers IMO
- TFortunato 5y ago
  On top of what other folks said, the warehouse folks not getting stock is a fairly recent development (2018, when minimum wage was raised). They do have a shockingly high turnover rate, but not sure if there is much that can be said about that relating to stock price currently, given how soon it's been since their stock comp went away, combined with the general strangeness of the Covid-19 pandemic https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/03/amazon-hourly-workers-lose-monthly-bonuses-stock-awards.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/03/amazon-hourly-workers-lose-m...
  - astrange 5y ago
    Getting your salary raised is probably a better deal. I don't think you can fund a stock purchase program at those wages (obviously you can take RSUs though) and the main effect might be they have to pay for Turbotax.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > So, elaborate on your model of the world. Shouldn't the logistic employees already be leaving in droves since they're not getting stock? Why aren't they? Wait, does “logistics” include warehouse, where the article mentions they had reached 150% annual turnover prepandemic? Sounds a lot like “leaving in droves”.
  - a3n 5y ago
    Yeah, they're leaving in droves. They're also arriving in droves, which is why Amazon has been able to withstand 150% turnover. But Amazon is now worried that they've worn out much of the US workforce available for "industrial athlete"positions. (Their term.) The droves of arrivals may slow down to dribbles.
    - samcal 5y ago
      "Arriving in droves" is much more telling about the external conditions of the job market. I think it's safe to say that it sounds like a good gig before you have a good understanding of what the work is. Then, after working for less than a year you see it for what it is and get out of there.
    - TomSwirly 5y ago
      Quite amazing you can interpret "150% turnover" as "arriving in droves". 150% turnover is unconditionally bad.
- ineedasername 5y ago
  Depends on who is classified as logistics: warehouse workers are a key component in the logistics l, and they have %150 annual turn over rate.
paxys 5y ago
Logistics workers aren't stack ranked, so that's a completely different problem
- rossjudson 5y ago
  I believe they are actually just stacked.
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  Where I live engineers aren't stack ranked either. Doesn't speak highly of the engineers to be honest to accept such conditions. Why should you? Money? Not really a problem in the industry, is it? Although I do think that Amazon probably pays much more, it just doesn't seem worth it. It is hard to work with people in an eternal dick measuring contest. It just isn't fun.
outside1234 5y ago
yeah, they are already leaving in droves.
- koheripbal 5y ago
  No, they are not. Amazon logistics employees get paid significantly higher than any other blue collar job in the region.
  - bostonsre 5y ago
    Someone else posted this in response to a similar comment further down: https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-warehouse-turnover-worker-shortage-2021-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-warehouse-turnover-wo...
  - strikhedonia 5y ago
    .. and significantly less than other logistics workers.
okaram 5y ago
Up until a couple of years ago, they did get stock (Amazon doesn't give you options, but stock grants). Not sure if that ended when they made the salary $15. If by 'logistics' you mean the people who pack/ship etc, warehouse work sucks, but Amazon has better salary and conditions than most others (pee bottle jokes aside). If you mean the warehouse supervisors, analysts, etc, they get paid fairly well.
- dhbanes 5y ago
  Why, exactly, is the pee bottle situation a "joke"?
  - darkwizard42 5y ago
    Parent comment is referring to any crude joke or non-inspired replies regarding the peeing in bottles situation (which isn’t isolated to Amazon alone)
- xnyan 5y ago
  The injury rate of Amazon's warehouse employees is the highest in the industry[0]. Annual turnover is almost double that of the retail and logistics industries [1]. On top of that, as you note, the work sucks. I would call those conditions bad, and the turnover suggests that the pay is not sufficient to retain employees. [0] www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/06/01/amazon-osha-injury-rate/ [1] https://www.adpri.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/19220244/The-State-of-the-Workforce-Full-Research-Report-2019.pdf https://www.adpri.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/19220244/Th...
- TomSwirly 5y ago
  It has the worst results in the industry - most injuries, most turnover. Where do you get these "better conditions" from?
  - ornornor 5y ago
    Unions are usually a good starting point.

civilian 5y ago

So, elaborate on your model of the world. Shouldn't the logistic employees already be leaving in droves since they're not getting stock? Why aren't they?

htrp 5y ago
> Amazon burns through workers so quickly that executives are worried they'll run out of people to employ, according to a new report Sources: https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-warehouse-turnover-worker-shortage-2021-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-warehouse-turnover-wo... https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/06/15/us/amazon-workers.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/06/15/us/amazon-wor...
- subsubzero 5y ago
  I know I will never work for them, they constantly reach out to me and its all nope on my side. As a side note there's always new college grads(a sucker born every minute according to PT Barnum) willing to suffer for their chance to work at a FANG.
  - Clewza313 5y ago
    I haven't seen too many threads on HN complaining about the work conditions at any FAANG other than Amazon though?
wiz21c 5y ago
because they may not have other job opportunities ? Because being screwed is better than having no job at all ?
thephyber 5y ago
> Why aren't they? Do you have evidence they aren’t? I was under the impression Amazon warehouse logistics employees had extremely high turnover (averaging less than 1 year). I suspect I agree with you that logistics workers realize they are on a lower rung of the ladder and are willing to work for less compensation. I suspect much of janitorial and security staff in Amazon HQ probably have no access to stock options either.
- a3n 5y ago
  > I suspect much of janitorial and security staff in Amazon HQ probably have no access to stock options either. It's likely that security and janitorial are 3rd party contractors and have no access to anything available from Amazon whatsoever.
  - simfree 5y ago
    Amazon's security works for Securitas at the Seattle campus, and turnover is extremely high as they try shenanigans like "Cover the Alarm Panel, do entryway guarding at the main entrance at the same time (despite both requiring 24/7 physical presence and not being in the same area of the building)". Amazon has very high security staffing requirements compared to most other Seattle companies. Absolutely bonkers IMO
TFortunato 5y ago
On top of what other folks said, the warehouse folks not getting stock is a fairly recent development (2018, when minimum wage was raised). They do have a shockingly high turnover rate, but not sure if there is much that can be said about that relating to stock price currently, given how soon it's been since their stock comp went away, combined with the general strangeness of the Covid-19 pandemic https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/03/amazon-hourly-workers-lose-monthly-bonuses-stock-awards.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/03/amazon-hourly-workers-lose-m...
- astrange 5y ago
  Getting your salary raised is probably a better deal. I don't think you can fund a stock purchase program at those wages (obviously you can take RSUs though) and the main effect might be they have to pay for Turbotax.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> So, elaborate on your model of the world. Shouldn't the logistic employees already be leaving in droves since they're not getting stock? Why aren't they? Wait, does “logistics” include warehouse, where the article mentions they had reached 150% annual turnover prepandemic? Sounds a lot like “leaving in droves”.
- a3n 5y ago
  Yeah, they're leaving in droves. They're also arriving in droves, which is why Amazon has been able to withstand 150% turnover. But Amazon is now worried that they've worn out much of the US workforce available for "industrial athlete"positions. (Their term.) The droves of arrivals may slow down to dribbles.
  - samcal 5y ago
    "Arriving in droves" is much more telling about the external conditions of the job market. I think it's safe to say that it sounds like a good gig before you have a good understanding of what the work is. Then, after working for less than a year you see it for what it is and get out of there.
  - TomSwirly 5y ago
    Quite amazing you can interpret "150% turnover" as "arriving in droves". 150% turnover is unconditionally bad.
ineedasername 5y ago
Depends on who is classified as logistics: warehouse workers are a key component in the logistics l, and they have %150 annual turn over rate.

paxys 5y ago

Logistics workers aren't stack ranked, so that's a completely different problem

rossjudson 5y ago
I believe they are actually just stacked.
raxxorrax 5y ago
Where I live engineers aren't stack ranked either. Doesn't speak highly of the engineers to be honest to accept such conditions. Why should you? Money? Not really a problem in the industry, is it? Although I do think that Amazon probably pays much more, it just doesn't seem worth it. It is hard to work with people in an eternal dick measuring contest. It just isn't fun.

outside1234 5y ago

yeah, they are already leaving in droves.

koheripbal 5y ago
No, they are not. Amazon logistics employees get paid significantly higher than any other blue collar job in the region.
- bostonsre 5y ago
  Someone else posted this in response to a similar comment further down: https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-warehouse-turnover-worker-shortage-2021-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-warehouse-turnover-wo...
- strikhedonia 5y ago
  .. and significantly less than other logistics workers.

okaram 5y ago

Up until a couple of years ago, they did get stock (Amazon doesn't give you options, but stock grants). Not sure if that ended when they made the salary $15. If by 'logistics' you mean the people who pack/ship etc, warehouse work sucks, but Amazon has better salary and conditions than most others (pee bottle jokes aside). If you mean the warehouse supervisors, analysts, etc, they get paid fairly well.

dhbanes 5y ago
Why, exactly, is the pee bottle situation a "joke"?
- darkwizard42 5y ago
  Parent comment is referring to any crude joke or non-inspired replies regarding the peeing in bottles situation (which isn’t isolated to Amazon alone)
xnyan 5y ago
The injury rate of Amazon's warehouse employees is the highest in the industry[0]. Annual turnover is almost double that of the retail and logistics industries [1]. On top of that, as you note, the work sucks. I would call those conditions bad, and the turnover suggests that the pay is not sufficient to retain employees. [0] www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/06/01/amazon-osha-injury-rate/ [1] https://www.adpri.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/19220244/The-State-of-the-Workforce-Full-Research-Report-2019.pdf https://www.adpri.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/19220244/Th...
TomSwirly 5y ago
It has the worst results in the industry - most injuries, most turnover. Where do you get these "better conditions" from?
- ornornor 5y ago
  Unions are usually a good starting point.