4 ms·

I don't understand this argument, could you explain why modern software cannot run on old hardware? It sounds like it's justifying planned obsolescence.

by jokoon 5y ago

1_player 5y ago
Can you explain why you expect modern software to run on old hardware first? Should I be surprised that my turn of the millennium PC can't even run Slack? Yes, in absolute terms it's a bit ridiculous, but we're not talking philosophy here, Moore's law is a thing and software has been getting more complex as hardware got faster. Deal with it. How is this news?
- bionade24 5y ago
  There are Slack clients out there, which use a hundreth of the official one and they can run on these old machines, too. The problem aren't more ressource itensive features not possible before, but delivering a services we have for decades with way worse ressource usage because you can.
  - djrogers 5y ago
    > There are Slack clients out there, which use a hundreth of the official one and they can run on these old machines, too Uhh, care to share? Asking for a friend....
    - Marsymars 5y ago
      Maybe referring to Ripcord. I haven't used for Slack though, I don't know what Slack's position is on third-party clients - using them with Discord is liable to get you banned.
    - bionade24 5y ago
      Ripcord is the most advanced, SailSlack for SailfishOS and lots of CLI clients.
- zbrozek 5y ago
  In a lot of cases new software isn't delivering utility over old software, yet consumes more resources. Users justifiably feel miffed that they're expected to buy new hardware merely to keep up.
- II2II 5y ago
  > Can you explain why you expect modern software to run on old hardware first? People are expected to run modern software for reasons of security, to retain interoperability with the latest standards, or to reduce support costs for the vendor. It is not very surprising that people don't want to upgrade their hardware for reasons that are outside of their control.
- jokoon 5y ago
  "Deal with it" ? How is that an argument? Things are getting worse and it should not be a problem then? If software is getting more complex, what kind of feature is it bringing or adding? I mean it's not more complex without a good reason. If you quote Moore's law, let me quote Wirth's law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirth%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirth%27s_law
FpUser 5y ago
That depends. Many developers are now using Electron, .NET and other tech to develop software. Those are heavy and do not like old computers with limited resources." My desktop products are made in Delphi (compiles to native code) and are very responsive and frugal on resources. Run fine on very old hardware. Desktop products done in C++ would be even better but I am not masochistic enough to develop GUI in C++. At least for now.
- Silhouette 5y ago
  Is performance really comparable between .Net and Electron now? Neither is my specialty but anecdotally I see far more criticism of Electron for its slowness.
  - FpUser 5y ago
    In theory .NET should be "better". In practice this really depends on way too many factors including how experienced were the programmers who implemented the software. In any way I am not an expert in this area. I do use VS code as for some tasks there is no viable alternative for me and since my development workstation is a monster it runs fine. My own desktop apps however are native and I test them on really shitty hardware where one would not dream of running VS Code / Slack / whatever. For fun I've compiled my main desktop product to 32 bit and it runs on a friggin old netbook just fine. Also from my point of view speed of development is not any slower when developing native applications. So unless client specifically requires it or I am doing some front end in browser my desktop apps are all native and coded in Delphi/Lazarus and my backends are C++.
- badsectoracula 5y ago
  I doubt you'll see any performance difference between Delphi and C++ (even with the most optimizing C++ compilers) outside of heavy number crunching anyway.
  - FpUser 5y ago
    For whatever reasons most of my software (desktop and servers) ends up having this "heavy crunching" part in it be it. I usually do not create products that only serve as a simple conduit to a database.

I don't understand this argument, could you explain why modern software cannot run on old hardware? It sounds like it's justifying planned obsolescence.

by jokoon 5y ago

I don't understand this argument, could you explain why modern software cannot run on old hardware? It sounds like it's justifying planned obsolescence.

1_player 5y ago

Can you explain why you expect modern software to run on old hardware first? Should I be surprised that my turn of the millennium PC can't even run Slack? Yes, in absolute terms it's a bit ridiculous, but we're not talking philosophy here, Moore's law is a thing and software has been getting more complex as hardware got faster. Deal with it. How is this news?

bionade24 5y ago
There are Slack clients out there, which use a hundreth of the official one and they can run on these old machines, too. The problem aren't more ressource itensive features not possible before, but delivering a services we have for decades with way worse ressource usage because you can.
- djrogers 5y ago
  > There are Slack clients out there, which use a hundreth of the official one and they can run on these old machines, too Uhh, care to share? Asking for a friend....
  - Marsymars 5y ago
    Maybe referring to Ripcord. I haven't used for Slack though, I don't know what Slack's position is on third-party clients - using them with Discord is liable to get you banned.
  - bionade24 5y ago
    Ripcord is the most advanced, SailSlack for SailfishOS and lots of CLI clients.
zbrozek 5y ago
In a lot of cases new software isn't delivering utility over old software, yet consumes more resources. Users justifiably feel miffed that they're expected to buy new hardware merely to keep up.
II2II 5y ago
> Can you explain why you expect modern software to run on old hardware first? People are expected to run modern software for reasons of security, to retain interoperability with the latest standards, or to reduce support costs for the vendor. It is not very surprising that people don't want to upgrade their hardware for reasons that are outside of their control.
jokoon 5y ago
"Deal with it" ? How is that an argument? Things are getting worse and it should not be a problem then? If software is getting more complex, what kind of feature is it bringing or adding? I mean it's not more complex without a good reason. If you quote Moore's law, let me quote Wirth's law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirth%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirth%27s_law

FpUser 5y ago

That depends. Many developers are now using Electron, .NET and other tech to develop software. Those are heavy and do not like old computers with limited resources." My desktop products are made in Delphi (compiles to native code) and are very responsive and frugal on resources. Run fine on very old hardware. Desktop products done in C++ would be even better but I am not masochistic enough to develop GUI in C++. At least for now.

Silhouette 5y ago
Is performance really comparable between .Net and Electron now? Neither is my specialty but anecdotally I see far more criticism of Electron for its slowness.
- FpUser 5y ago
  In theory .NET should be "better". In practice this really depends on way too many factors including how experienced were the programmers who implemented the software. In any way I am not an expert in this area. I do use VS code as for some tasks there is no viable alternative for me and since my development workstation is a monster it runs fine. My own desktop apps however are native and I test them on really shitty hardware where one would not dream of running VS Code / Slack / whatever. For fun I've compiled my main desktop product to 32 bit and it runs on a friggin old netbook just fine. Also from my point of view speed of development is not any slower when developing native applications. So unless client specifically requires it or I am doing some front end in browser my desktop apps are all native and coded in Delphi/Lazarus and my backends are C++.
badsectoracula 5y ago
I doubt you'll see any performance difference between Delphi and C++ (even with the most optimizing C++ compilers) outside of heavy number crunching anyway.
- FpUser 5y ago
  For whatever reasons most of my software (desktop and servers) ends up having this "heavy crunching" part in it be it. I usually do not create products that only serve as a simple conduit to a database.