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A lesson on the importance of encouraging your children with their projects
- chadp 15y agoThis is the best story on HN I have ever read.
- smweber 15y agoAgreed. This is amazing.
- tb 15y agoI love the small print at the bottom: Text copyright (c) 2004 Scott Nesin. Drawings copyright (c) 2004 Guy Nesin, used with permission. You just know he did actually ask his 4-year-old son for permission to use his drawings on the web.
- dasil003 15y agoWhat's this kid building @ 11? That's what I wanna know.
- Eliezer 15y agoHe just got his Hogwarts letter.
- wlievens 15y agoThat comment has an extra layer coming from you.
- Vivtek 15y agoSpeaking of which, Eliezer should stop reading HN and get back to writing, don't you think?
- whatusername 15y agoYes.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- Joakal 15y agoReminds me about this dedicated builder: http://jamius.com/ http://jamius.com/ He builds pretty amazing stuff like indoor trampoline [0] and a robotic spider [1]. Due to his increasing popularity and requests to learn from him, he created the adventure builders club: http://jamius.com/abc/abc.html http://jamius.com/abc/abc.html Some more about him in this thread that propelled him to fame on Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/e5qgr/so_this_guy_lives_in_the_woods_and_is_video/ http://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/e5qgr/so_this_guy_li... [0] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6c2K_ZVj3I&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6c2K_ZVj3I&feature=relat... [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86Krv3gE-c4&feature=player_embedded http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86Krv3gE-c4&feature=playe...
- drieddust 15y agoamazing guy. thanks for sharing this.
- noonespecial 15y agoI'm pretty sure this guy will be able to single handedly rebuild human civilization after the apocalypse(1). I love his current quest for a 3d printer that's open source and can run on his solar panels. (1)With his kid strapped to him, wisecracking the whole time.
- Joakal 15y agoIf you're interested in open source 3D printers, then you'll like these: http://www.reddit.com/r/reprap http://www.reddit.com/r/reprap http://reprap.org/wiki/Main_Page http://reprap.org/wiki/Main_Page http://openfarmtech.org/wiki/Main_Page http://openfarmtech.org/wiki/Main_Page (Not quite 3D printer, but on the 'rebuild human cilization' level)
- michaelschade 15y agoAwesome story, and a great lesson to all out there (current parents or otherwise)–kids know a lot more than many initially think. Like this guy letting his kid run the show in the store, my parents gave me freedom with computers (old Macs that some schools were throwing out) when I was growing up, knowing that they could fix whatever it is I might happen to break, and that's given me the confidence throughout my childhood and up to the present day to always experiment and try new project ideas, knowing that mistakes can be fixed. Given his parent's awesomeness, I'm sure Guy has seen similar benefits with having had the freedom to make project choices typically restricted to adults.
- wyclif 15y agoIf only I had more upvotes to give. This is the kind of story I come to HN for.
- blots 15y agoMy university blocks your site: Based on your corporate access policies, this web site ( http://gamesbyemail.com/WoodTape/Default.htm ) has been blocked because it has been determined by Web Reputation Filters to be a security threat to your computer or the corporate network. This web site has been associated with malware/spyware. Threat Type: Othermalware Threat Reason: IP address is either verified as a bot or has misconfigured DNS.
- ars 15y agoIt happened to me too. Try http://gamesbyemail.com.nyud.net:8090/WoodTape/Default.htm http://gamesbyemail.com.nyud.net:8090/WoodTape/Default.htm or http://gamesbyemail.com.nyud.net/WoodTape/Default.htm http://gamesbyemail.com.nyud.net/WoodTape/Default.htm
- wlievens 15y agoOdds are it's because of the word 'game' in the domain.
- blots 15y agoIt already happened that Cisco IronPort has blocked legitimate sites, like www.rp-photonics.com, and from the service desk reply I got it appeared that this was not the only case. Of course one gets used to go around the blocks with proxies, but I don't see the point in blocking stuff in the first place.
- cesarsalazar12 15y agoReally inspiring. I don't have kids yet but when I think about parenting, this is what I always dream of. However, when I tell my "non-hacker" friends, they don't seem to get excited about it. I don't know why. For me, parenting is all about playing a supporting role in the kids journey to understand the world and learn to hack it for the better.
- pja 15y agoI love a story with a happy ending!
- ThomPete 15y agoI have a son who is turning two. Our local supermarket is a great primarily organic shop. They have carts made for the little ones and we normally use that to do all our shopping. I usually let him pick things down from the shelves or give him things from them to put into his cart. Sometimes his picks are random but mostly he fetches three things that I normally get. 1. Milk 2. Pasta 3. Swarts Broot After that we go to the counter and he fetches the things for me to put up on the desk. He now even packs it. I have found that involving him like this makes it much easier to set boundaries because he can relate to them. It's quite different to be told to put only some of the things back rather than everything. It's quite amazing to experience the emergence of consciousness.
- MaxGabriel 15y agoWhat is Swarts Broot? I googled it and it led me back to this post only
- maeon3 15y agoParents who give their kids a regular diet of "High Praise", "Agreeableness", "Supportiveness" and "Positive Interaction", but don't send them to college create children who have higher socioeconomic statuses than children of disconnected parents who send theirs to college. Multiple studies done confirm this. http://books.google.com/books?id=XDq9Xf_NbrMC&lpg=PT28&ots=BODEK7jWBY&dq=high%20praise%2C%20agreeableness%2C%20supportiveness%2C%20positive%20interaction&pg=PT28#v=snippet&q=agreeableness&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=XDq9Xf_NbrMC&lpg=PT28&#... Adam Savage from Mythbusters claimed his love of building came from his parents encouraging him to make all sorts of crazy inventions. Moral of the story, encourage the children to build stuff, keep them on track but don't do it for them.
- nl 15y agoI'm not trying to be pedantic, but that is a book, not a study. I've seen multiple studies that show parents who withhold praise raise higher achievers (personally, I don't like that, but none the less - the studies do exist)
- BindGuice 15y agoI don't think the bit was about praise, rather the act of stepping back and playing spectator.
- dazzawazza 15y agoYou can encourage without fawning praise. A combination of letting my kids fail, talking about how to remedy and encouragement to get them over the 'getting started again' hump is working out great for my two kids.
- maeon3 15y agoIf you expand the chapter you'll find the referenced study the author is drawing upon.
- Tichy 15y agoI thought the latest was to praise effort, not achievements. Praising achievements might induce self-consciousness and make kids not try very hard.
- toyg 15y agoAs the proud parent of a very chatty daughter of two, I wonder: what would be an equivalent sort of project for girls? At the moment she likes Duplo/Lego because it's one of the few areas where we connect over the gender divide, but her other roleplay and games are all about caring and she's very empathic with other children (worrying when they cry etc). I do wonder whether pointing her towards hackerdom would really be the right thing to do.
- tomjen3 15y agoThe equivalent thing for girls? Build stuff, obviously. Maybe not the same (I for one wouldn't have wanted a checker table as a kid), but building is something everybody should do.
- ordinary 15y agoGuy's checkers table was no more a "project for boys" than a project for your daughter (or, better yet, by your daughter) would be a "project for girls". The thing I took away from the OP was to support your children in whatever they do, regardless of whether they want to have tea parties with their friends or climb trees or hack the NSA. Well, OK, maybe not that last one.
- Vivtek 15y agoMy son keeps asking me about how to "hack computers" and I'm pretty sure that's what he's on about. I keep telling him about how to program. Eventually I hope it will click.
- thomaslangston 15y agoEven before programming, general IT knowledge seems to be very useful for hacking. Operating systems, hardware, and networking are great topics (and they are more concrete than most programming). Great book he might want to read: http://www.amazon.com/Hacking-Exposed-Network-Security-Solutions/dp/0071613749 http://www.amazon.com/Hacking-Exposed-Network-Security-Solut...
- pbhjpbhj 15y agoThis sort of story makes me sad. We don't have a tree house, we don't even have a tree. We don't have money to spend at the DIY store to keep the house in shape never mind making checkers boards for fun. I thought I was getting pretty good at quenching the covetousness that society seemed to have imbued me with but when one realises that stuff is needed for many uplifting experiences. Realising the great joy certain things brought me as a kid and realising that those things are beyond the reach of my kids ... Gah. A happy story made me sad; I'm too easily depressed. Aside: email games seems really retro.
- dazzawazza 15y agoWhile money makes things a lot easier my kids make most of their things from the boxes, paper packaging, old clothes and wrapping paper that we stash away. We bulk buy PVA glue for them to use from DIY stores so it really costs very little for them to experiment/play.
- tomjen3 15y agoMy mother used to save the plastic milk crates we got and we would use those and a bit of glue to make stuff. Doesn't take that much.
- pbhjpbhj 15y agoWe're pretty creative when it comes to craft. Yes we reuse what packaging and what-have-you that we can but this isn't at all the same experience as a kid thinking "hmm I'd like to make a checker board" and then being free to go out and buy the materials and make it with their dad. Lets be honest, you can only make so much out of plastic drinks cartons and cardboard packaging. Even then it's like, oh we need some clamps, a decent trimming tool, etc.. Don't worry I'm just exhausted with "making do" at the moment. At the risk of broadcasting a break down I think I'd better slip away quietly ...
- jgrahamc 15y agoI made a 'Ponyo' boat out of a used soda can (which I took from the office), a used milk/juice carton (which I took for a party I went to). Didn't cost anything (even the glue I used was the end of a pot of epoxy I've had for years). http://blog.jgc.org/2011/06/making-ponyo-or-putt-putt-boat.html http://blog.jgc.org/2011/06/making-ponyo-or-putt-putt-boat.h... Fun to do if you have kids.
- JonathanFields 15y agoAwesome story. Been taking the same approach with my daughter. She's now 10 and is pretty fearless about wielding any tool or material needed to design whatever she's working on. Reminds me of a story I once saw about Tinkering School for kids, where they let the kids conceive and builds project together. http://www.tinkeringschool.com/ http://www.tinkeringschool.com/
- RtodaAV 15y agoI'm sorry but I can't believe this.
- blots 15y agoThat's a very inspiring story. My experience with my parents was quite the opposite. Whenever I would ask for help they'd present me with a heap of arguments why I shouldn't "waste my time on this stuff" and even try to stop me. I finally came to the conclusion that it's best not to ask them at all but try to do it secretly myself and only show them the end result. The only other possible outcome was them doing it all themselves. Usually saying that they will do it faster and better and won't break or make anything dirty in process. Perfect example of how not to raise children.
- fastfinner 15y agoAre you middle eastern by any chance? :D
- cpenner461 15y agoMy son (5) has his own workbench next to mine, and regularly likes to go "build stuff" with me. He's built several "houses" (random blocks of wood glued/screwed/nailed together) on his own, and loves helping cut/drill/nail whatever project we happen to be working on. If I'm working on electronics stuff he likes to take the voltmeter and check the resistance of various objects to see if it beeps. I realized all the hands-on/building/tools/etc was really paying off when he changed the batteries in a baby bouncer completely by himself. (For those unfamiliar with anything baby related, this means he had to work a screwdriver and remove several screws to take the cover off just to get to the batteries - I know adults who can't really work a screwdriver.) He even had the appropriate remark of frustration when at the end of it all he realized he'd put the cover back in the wrong way and had to take the whole thing off and re-do it...
- phil_parsons 15y agoI look forward to moments like this with my two sons, great story and really well told... thanks!
- masto 15y agoThis guy thinks his kid is cute, because it's his kid, but I don't like the part where he deliberately irritates everyone in the hardware store. I don't think your kid is cute, so please keep it out of my way.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- Roboprog 15y agoAnd stay off my lawn! Community? Maybe this kid will be fixing your house when you are too old and gimpy to do it.
- shou4577 15y agoSpeaking from personal experience, I think the positives of this outweigh the negatives. I've had many customer-interactive part-time jobs in my life, and I think that it can be great fun when adults have their children do the interacting. So long as the store is not too busy, and the parents provide intervention when it is necessary (as in this particular story), I think that most people will not be inconvenienced significantly. More importantly, I think that forcing your kids to do these types of interactions from a young age is very instrumental in their growth and development. While I am not well-versed in childhood development, I think that I rarely (if ever) was encouraged to do these sorts of things on my own when I was young, and that (possibly due in part to this) I had to break an irrational phobia of these types of social interactions at around the age of 18. I was literally afraid to ask for help in a store, or to call a business for almost any reason. Mentally preparing for phone calls with strangers, even something as innocuous as finding out store hours, could leave me shaking. Fortunately, I've managed to overcome this anxiety. I can't know for certain whether more of these types of interaction at a young age would have prevented this problem, but I think that it is reasonable to believe that it could have. The slight inconvenience is a small price to pay for this sort of developmental skill-building. That's not to say that some people don't need to reign in their kids now and then, just that an appropriate amount of interaction is healthy and really not very annoying at all to others.
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- rglover 15y agoThis really brightened up my morning. A great story and surprisingly, a good twist. Much like his Dad, I had no idea what Guy was up to until the end. It really shows you how tuned in kids are. For any parent, this is a great lesson: let your kids lead the way. They may seems a bit crazy, but this is evidence that usually, they're not. Hands down, though, my favorite part of this whole story was imagining Guy running up to Home Depot employees by himself to ask for help. Adorable.
- edw519 15y agoTypical enterprise developer: 1. User knows exactly what he wants. 2. User can only express that in his own language. 3. Data flow diagrams, best practices, structured design, etc. 4. Dev still doesn't know what user wants but builds anyway. 5. 2 years later, project scrapped. Scott Nesin: 1. User knows exactly what he wants. 2. User can only express that in his own language. 3. Developer patiently encourages user to express himself. 4. Eureka! 5. Much learned; happy ending.
- gacba 15y agoMoral of the story: Scott Nesin should be in charge of all Enterprise Development Projects from here on out. :)
- Apocryphon 15y agoMoral of the story: have engineers only work on projects from clients who are related. Nepotism facilitates communication!
- demian 15y agoFeeling potential for a new buzzword-methodology in this. It's common sense, but not so common that you can't charge for workshops/talks/certifications. The only thing you need now is a good, substantial name that evokes a mechanical and engineering process, like "User Language Oriented Design".
- SoftwareMaven 15y agoIt is a rare developer who can handle the Nesin step 3. It requires an empathy that doesn't come naturally to many engineers. However, when cultivated, that empathy makes for phenomenal developers. When I manage development teams, that is the number one trait I manage for. With empathy, all other problems can be solved.
- pkghost 15y ago[empathy] is the number one trait I manage for. With empathy, all other problems can be solved You win. I've stumbled across a handy mental model (in which empathy plays a pivotal role) through research on mindfulness, emotion, and neuroscience, as well as in an emotional intelligence course taught at Google by Chade-Meng Tan. In short: Bodily awareness -> emotional self-awareness -> emotional other-awareness (empathy) -> effective communication -> healthy relationships -> happiness. It turns out that your brain uses the same machinery to model your own emotional state as that which it uses to model the emotional states of others, so the better you are at identifying your own emotional states, the better you will be at identifying them in others, which will allow you to communicate more effectively and so forth. Also relevant: Asana's Jack Stahl touches on the importance of empathy in a post post about peer feedback at work: http://asana.com/2011/06/peer-feedback-at-asana/ http://asana.com/2011/06/peer-feedback-at-asana/
- zwieback 15y agoGreat story. Two comments: - I think the people at our Home Depot would not have been as irritated and would have led the way to the paint department, maybe it's regionally different - My girls go for spray paint 10 out of 10 times My daughter had a 4th grade "invention convention" project and she chose to build a anti-kick board for her desk so the boy sitting opposite couldn't kick her. It also had comfy footrests. The boy's side had an Italian and her side had a German flag (the respective nationalities) spray-painted. It ended up looking really nice and the teacher let her keep it on her desk for a few days. That project encouraged her to build some tables for her room.
- Shenglong 15y agoThis story has a great moral, and from a younger-person's standpoint, I think it's something every parent should consider: enable, and don't obligate. Encouragement itself is a dangerous path, since it can lead to an unhealthy zeal and interest. Unless you're parenting in an unique way, parents usually are seen as an authority figure by the kids. Because of this, over-encouragement could be seen as forcefulness, and act to discourage the child by creating a sense of obligation. This is exactly what happened to me on multiple occasions. I swam breast stroke competitively when I was younger, and stopped training completely when my coach and my parents decided I should train for higher level competition. I also played badminton on a provincial level, and basically the same thing happened. This isn't me being lazy. I trained 9 hours a day last summer at the Shaolin temple on my own will. On the other end, everything I've built (or done, other sports included), I've done so on my own accord, either with no support from my parents, or just a slight tinge of interest. I guess every child is different - just make sure not to make them feel obligated.
- afterburner 15y agoI also see this as an aversion to being manipulated. People (kids, adults) definitely react in different ways to this, it's why you have to be careful about generalized advice. Some kids would flourish being "pushed" into something, others experience an almost allergic reaction to seemingly blunt manipulation and obligation. The exact way parents and coaches reward and encourage the kid also matters, and matters differently to every kid. You just have to figure out what each kid is like.
- SoftwareMaven 15y agoit's why you have to be careful about generalized advice This is so true. There is no generalized advice that will work for all parent/children combinations. Every child is different and will require different inputs to affect optimal outputs. Having said that, I will give one piece of generalized advice: know your kids. Notice my advice is on how a parent should behave, not the child. :) Really spend time with your kid(s) and learn how they tick. Only by doing that can you hope to understand how to help them achieve their potential.
- hoffer 15y agoSlightly off-topic but most Home Depot's on the first saturday of each month hold a free kids workshop. They provide everything necessary to build something (spice rack, shelves etc). My son and I have attended many and their great.
- trustfundbaby 15y agoThat writer's insistence on hanging back and not getting a little bit more involved in the project or at least helping out really annoyed me for some reason ... I had to skip to the end to find out what happened.
- dplakon 15y agogreat story!
- pknerd 15y agoWhat a wonderful lesson given by Scott and Guy. Mapping Scott and his young kid as Team leader and a developer respectively,we could figure out how a Team lead/Someone from Management, could encourage his developers to try out new things anda set their minds free by giving them freedom to do something which they love. It's kind of Google's 20% time rule. Every Org which trust his non-managerial staff and allow them to try out things often progress and prosper much faster than companies where politics and bureaucracy often create obstacles.
- knieveltech 15y agoI learned last week my wife is pregnant. I was excited already, but after reading this post I'm impatient to be a father. Thanks for sharing.