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Another example of this is in the study of domestic animal behavior with speak buttons. I believe this amateur wave is part of a much bigger set of societal ac

Another example of this is in the study of domestic animal behavior with speak buttons. I believe this amateur wave is part of a much bigger set of societal actions “challenging assumptions” of the former era. There is a sharp decline in reverence for “authority” along with a lowering of barriers to entry. Almost anyone with interest and bravery to share has a chance to shine in any subject area. Computer science is leading the way, in part because it often requires little or no physical presence or collaboration. Proof of advancements can be disseminated in perfect fidelity and validated quickly. In other fields, people who happen to live among a rare natural phenomena have great potential to fall into discovery others could only hope to witness at great expense. Following this to its natural conclusion all fields will ultimately be advanced by a mix of professionals, academics and increasingly “amateurs” that earn reputation not by publishing but by pure contributions of content that unquestionably move the field forward.

j4yav 5y ago
That’s awesome. It is very much how I felt about computers when I was learning them in the 80s.. me, a little kid, could make or do something that nobody had ever done before exactly. And all the other homebrew clubs and hacker groups were doing the same thing. I guess 3d printing was similar recently, and I’m excited to see what the next ones are.
toto444 5y ago
There are a lot of people very interested by science but from what I read academia does not seem to be a good place to be in. That might help explaining why we can see 'amateur scientists' coming up with interesting results.
- amelius 5y ago
  Do you think the existence of these amateurs will help improve the current state in academia, or will it have the opposite effect?
  - treeman79 5y ago
    Look at em drive. A nonsense device that caused a LOT of people to become very good at Torsion Pendulums. Was fastening to watch ever improving builds as people tried to prove/disprove. Did em drive work out, no. But a lot did come out of the effort.
- mc32 5y ago
  It looks like there could be a twofold problem: Some academics are interested in pushing a particular take (agenda). This is contrary to science but often serving some social or political sentiment. Amateur scientists might lack the rigor to give their claims validity and may reach undeserved conclusions leading to misunderstanding from a part of the public who want some validation for their own beliefs.
  - scottLobster 5y ago
    I'd say the root is likely much simpler: Money Getting a degree, particularly a PhD to do research, is hideously expensive in the US and rarely pays well relative to the cost, even for STEM. Science in general is underfunded IMO, and from what I'm told competition for grants can be extreme. Society says they want the next Thomas Edison but they aren't willing to fund all the other failed light bulb designs to find him. In that environment being an amateur scientist makes the most sense if you can swing it. Do something more lucrative to ensure prosperity and, if you're really passionate about something scientific and can afford the necessary equipment yourself, do it at home and blog about it. Worth remembering that prior to modern funding mechanisms a lot (most?) of science was done by the independently wealthy gentry.
    - caddemon 5y ago
      I agree competition for grants drives a lot of these problems, but getting a STEM PhD costs nothing at any remotely respectable institution. You will be spending 5+ years making less than you could, so you still may not come out ahead financially, but it's purely an opportunity cost not an actual cost. It's not uncommon either for people to bail with a free masters after 2 years. I like the idea of making money first and then pursuing research, but I think for certain fields the only way to do much of anything would be to latch on as a research volunteer to an existing lab. Because the cost to run any experiments is just way too high, particularly if you have no shared equipment to begin with. Alternatively, you could just start a PhD later in life. There are time limits on a bunch of the academic stages, but no clock really starts until after you've finished your PhD. I do think it would be a lot more comfortable to do a PhD once you've already financially established yourself, plus I think it produces a better culture when people aren't so attached to progressing up the academic ladder, like their life depends on it.
- treeman79 5y ago
  A lot of “amateurs” have access to far more resources than professionals of generations past. Equipment, training, larger communities, sometimes even functional wealth. Let’s see what happens when we drop a car from a crane onto a trampoline. That’s a lot more equipment then dropping a feather and a cannon ball off a tower.
secfirstmd 5y ago
Absolutely. The dog "Bunny" for example is really an incredible version of that. Watch a few of these videos and it will change how you see dogs for ever. Some examples of these dogs just focus on food or play. Bunny gets into questions about family, concern for neighbours dogs and existential stuff like "Mom, were you dog?" https://www.instagram.com/whataboutbunny/ https://www.instagram.com/whataboutbunny/
- amanaplanacanal 5y ago
  Bunny as presented is pretty mind blowing. But I wonder: since we only see a tiny part of her interactions, is this an example of a million monkeys with a million typewriters?
  - Workaccount2 5y ago
    It strikes me as more likely that bunny is just memorizing button combinations (or more likely just a button, with ad-lib other buttons thrown in) that lead to certain actions - totally independent of the words being said. Take chimps for example, who learned hundreds of sign words. Despite knowing how to "communicate", they never once asked a question. I haven't watched a bunch of bunny videos, but it strikes me more as astrological sign reading than "dogs finally have a meaningful way to communicate".
creddit 5y ago
> There is a sharp decline in reverence for “authority” along with a lowering of barriers to entry. This feels so different to what I’ve observed in “blue” states and popular media/social media over the last 1.3yrs

j4yav 5y ago

That’s awesome. It is very much how I felt about computers when I was learning them in the 80s.. me, a little kid, could make or do something that nobody had ever done before exactly. And all the other homebrew clubs and hacker groups were doing the same thing. I guess 3d printing was similar recently, and I’m excited to see what the next ones are.

toto444 5y ago

There are a lot of people very interested by science but from what I read academia does not seem to be a good place to be in. That might help explaining why we can see 'amateur scientists' coming up with interesting results.

amelius 5y ago
Do you think the existence of these amateurs will help improve the current state in academia, or will it have the opposite effect?
- treeman79 5y ago
  Look at em drive. A nonsense device that caused a LOT of people to become very good at Torsion Pendulums. Was fastening to watch ever improving builds as people tried to prove/disprove. Did em drive work out, no. But a lot did come out of the effort.
mc32 5y ago
It looks like there could be a twofold problem: Some academics are interested in pushing a particular take (agenda). This is contrary to science but often serving some social or political sentiment. Amateur scientists might lack the rigor to give their claims validity and may reach undeserved conclusions leading to misunderstanding from a part of the public who want some validation for their own beliefs.
- scottLobster 5y ago
  I'd say the root is likely much simpler: Money Getting a degree, particularly a PhD to do research, is hideously expensive in the US and rarely pays well relative to the cost, even for STEM. Science in general is underfunded IMO, and from what I'm told competition for grants can be extreme. Society says they want the next Thomas Edison but they aren't willing to fund all the other failed light bulb designs to find him. In that environment being an amateur scientist makes the most sense if you can swing it. Do something more lucrative to ensure prosperity and, if you're really passionate about something scientific and can afford the necessary equipment yourself, do it at home and blog about it. Worth remembering that prior to modern funding mechanisms a lot (most?) of science was done by the independently wealthy gentry.
  - caddemon 5y ago
    I agree competition for grants drives a lot of these problems, but getting a STEM PhD costs nothing at any remotely respectable institution. You will be spending 5+ years making less than you could, so you still may not come out ahead financially, but it's purely an opportunity cost not an actual cost. It's not uncommon either for people to bail with a free masters after 2 years. I like the idea of making money first and then pursuing research, but I think for certain fields the only way to do much of anything would be to latch on as a research volunteer to an existing lab. Because the cost to run any experiments is just way too high, particularly if you have no shared equipment to begin with. Alternatively, you could just start a PhD later in life. There are time limits on a bunch of the academic stages, but no clock really starts until after you've finished your PhD. I do think it would be a lot more comfortable to do a PhD once you've already financially established yourself, plus I think it produces a better culture when people aren't so attached to progressing up the academic ladder, like their life depends on it.
treeman79 5y ago
A lot of “amateurs” have access to far more resources than professionals of generations past. Equipment, training, larger communities, sometimes even functional wealth. Let’s see what happens when we drop a car from a crane onto a trampoline. That’s a lot more equipment then dropping a feather and a cannon ball off a tower.

secfirstmd 5y ago

Absolutely. The dog "Bunny" for example is really an incredible version of that. Watch a few of these videos and it will change how you see dogs for ever. Some examples of these dogs just focus on food or play. Bunny gets into questions about family, concern for neighbours dogs and existential stuff like "Mom, were you dog?" https://www.instagram.com/whataboutbunny/ https://www.instagram.com/whataboutbunny/

amanaplanacanal 5y ago
Bunny as presented is pretty mind blowing. But I wonder: since we only see a tiny part of her interactions, is this an example of a million monkeys with a million typewriters?
- Workaccount2 5y ago
  It strikes me as more likely that bunny is just memorizing button combinations (or more likely just a button, with ad-lib other buttons thrown in) that lead to certain actions - totally independent of the words being said. Take chimps for example, who learned hundreds of sign words. Despite knowing how to "communicate", they never once asked a question. I haven't watched a bunch of bunny videos, but it strikes me more as astrological sign reading than "dogs finally have a meaningful way to communicate".

creddit 5y ago

> There is a sharp decline in reverence for “authority” along with a lowering of barriers to entry. This feels so different to what I’ve observed in “blue” states and popular media/social media over the last 1.3yrs