5 ms·

Curcumin: A bioavailable blocker of TNF and other pro-inflammatory biomarkers (2013)

19 points by tediousdemise 5y ago

fighterpilot 5y ago
Beware that curcurmin supplements can have high lead levels due to spiking with lead chromate for coloring high up in the supply chain. It's why I won't take it unless I can find a reliable brand that specifically tests for it. If you do take it, it's good to take with piperine (or just black pepper) for bioavailability.
- r1ch 5y ago
  Have any recommendations?
  - fighterpilot 5y ago
    Unfortunately, no, although I didn't do a very exhaustive search.
    - r1ch 5y ago
      I was searching around on the subject and came across https://nootropicsdepot.com/longvida-curcumin-capsules/ https://nootropicsdepot.com/longvida-curcumin-capsules/ via Reddit which claims to do testing on their products with an in-house lab: https://nootropicsdepot.com/in-house-analytical-laboratory/ https://nootropicsdepot.com/in-house-analytical-laboratory/. Lead is mentioned but I don't know if lead chromate would be excluded from such a test. Looks more legitimate than most simple resellers but it could just be good marketing.
      - sooheon 5y ago
        FYI longvida is a brand name from a third party (Verdure Sciences), and ND is the reseller that claims to own and operate an internal testing lab.
- gricardo99 5y ago
  Any links or brands that provide this information?
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago
  Does powdered turmeric have the same issue? My parents eat loads of that stuff.
  - graeme 5y ago
    Unfortunately yes: https://news.stanford.edu/2019/09/24/lead-found-turmeric/ https://news.stanford.edu/2019/09/24/lead-found-turmeric/ Though this article says it is specific to Bangladesh.
    - fighterpilot 5y ago
      This one covers Boston markets (figure 1): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5415259 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5415259
- floatingatoll 5y ago
  e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21069437 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21069437
- elevenoh 5y ago
  On this topic: for anyone generally concerned about their heavy metal levels, hit the sauna & sweat'em out. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312275/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312275/
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - graeme 5y ago
    Huh, fascinating. Apparently sauna use is associated with less heart disease risk too. As someone who tends not to sweat much (despite exercising), maybe I’ll consider this. What does one…..do in a spa, if not going with friends? Sit and contemplate? https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/sauna-use-linked-longer-life-fewer-fatal-heart-problems-201502257755 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/sauna-use-linked-longer-...
    - steve_adams_86 5y ago
      Research isn’t sufficient yet, largely due to lack of random data, but saunas appear to be very good for people. At least, those who are healthy enough to use them already. There’s no data I know of showing that healthy people shouldn’t use them. There is data showing that people with a sauna habit typically live healthier lives. The tricky part is, do healthier people develop the habit, or does the habit make them healthy?
      - fighterpilot 5y ago
        Anyone read about the impact on male fertility due to the heat exposure? I've heard about it in passing but don't know if it's a real risk.
        graeme 5y ago
        Yeah heat definitely reduces sperm counts. One study found it reversed at six months. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23411620/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23411620/
- whycombagator 5y ago
  On lead: I think that’s true of a lot of spices. On black pepper: sure, but curcumin like Meriva absorbs even better. Meriva is sort of like the creapure (aka German creatine) of curcumin. On a brand to use/look at: I like solaray/jarrow/now. Jarrow meriva is what I use and they claim to test all products for heavy metals, but dont have COA (certificates of analysis) readily available so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
rhexs 5y ago
Search almost any disease + curcumin on pubmed and you’ll find plenty of studies claiming impact or showing murine/in vitro results. There have yet to be any high quality in vivo human studies demonstrating anything of value. Looking forward to the longvida Alzheimer’s trial that should be out in a few years.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
DoreenMichele 5y ago
I've tried curcumin. I wasn't impressed. It did little or nothing for me. From what I am reading, this seems to be an approach that treats symptoms, not cause(s). I think it would be better to ask "What is causing the inflammation?" Trying to control inflammation without knowing why it exists potentially makes things worse in the long run, even if it provides relief in the short run. This is the fundamental flaw with most medicines: We trade short-term gains for long-term costs, hand wave off the long terms costs and doctors get credit for "curing" your problem short term and wash their hands of long-term side effects, often chalking it up to the underlying condition for which you were nominally being treated.
- Ovah 5y ago
  I frankly disagree that antiinflammatory drugs having "long term costs". I'd be very interested if you have a paper to back that claim up. A couple decades ago it was common for rheumatic patients to end up in wheelchairs. Today that's very uncommon. I agree that most antirheumatic drugs, and most drugs in general, treat the symptoms rather than provide an outright cure. But that's enough to drastically reduce disease severity and increase quality of life. Actual cures might be ideal but we are far from there research-wise - at least for most rheumatic conditions.
  - nradov 5y ago
    Acute inflammation as the result of an injury isn't something that should be suppressed. We now understand that it should be allowed to persist as part of the healing process, so long as it isn't causing other serious problems. Persistent, chronic inflammation is another thing altogether.
    - edmundsauto 5y ago
      Wait, really? You're not supposed to ice or take NSAIDs after an injury? Not doubting, just wondering when this changed and if other people have been following this advice.
      - 5y ago
elevenoh 5y ago
Curcumin (logevida type), for me, seems to reduce brain fog when it arises.
sooheon 5y ago
The first author of linked paper is (in)famous for being highly prolific and having a large number of retractions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bharat_Aggarwal#Scientific_misconduct https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bharat_Aggarwal#Scientific_mis... http://retractiondatabase.org/RetractionSearch.aspx?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1#?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport%3d1%26auth%3dAggarwal%252c%2bBharat%2bB http://retractiondatabase.org/RetractionSearch.aspx?AspxAuto... A more recent skeptical review of curcumin (https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.jmedchem.6b00975 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.jmedchem.6b00975) labels it an "invalid metabolic panacea" and a "pan-assay interference compound", arguing that it has properties that lead to a lot of false positives in initial activity screening that don't pan out: No double-blinded, placebo controlled clinical trial of curcumin has been successful.
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
For a counterpoint, read Derek Lowe’s “Curcumin Will Waste Your Time” about all of the issues with Curcumin research: https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2017/01/12/curcumin-will-waste-your-time https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2017/01/12/cu... It’s also worth noting that Curcumin has been trialed for several conditions with no significant positive outcomes that I’m aware of. I think the truth falls somewhere in the middle. Curcumin isn’t the broad-acting wonder drug that some of these articles claim. However, it doesn’t appear to be completely inert, either. Be careful with marketing material from supplement vendors that focuses only on the positives. It’s not hard to find reports of Curcumin having various vague negative effects like reducing libido (apparently reverses several days after cessation) and other hard to pin down side effects. Finally, it’s important to keep in mind that not all inflammation is bad. Inflammatory signaling plays an important role in many biological processes and it is entirely possible to overdue it with anti-inflammatories in ways that become counterproductive.
nradov 5y ago
Also see this more recent randomized controlled trial study of a combination therapy for COVID-19 using honey and black cumin. It appears to be effective but the article is still in pre-print status and I don't think the results have been reproduced. Honey and Nigella sativa against COVID-19 in Pakistan (HNS-COVID-PK): A multi-center placebo-controlled randomized clinical trial Sohaib Ashraf, et al. medRxiv 2020.10.30.20217364; doi: https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.10.30.20217364 https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.10.30.20217364
jv22222 5y ago
Turmeric / curcumin are high in oxelates and can contribute to, or cause, kidney stones. On a personal note, I got a kidney stone after taking a curcumin supplement for 4 months. I don’t want to gross anyone out, but once out, it was the exact same color as the orange of the supplements. Just one data point, YMMV
michaelefisher 5y ago
As someone who has been on Humira for 4 years, I find this infuriating. Yeah, it’s expensive (this is more about US pharmaceutical licensing than anything else). But it works. Biologics are wonder drugs and the thought that curcumin comes close to putting these diseases into into remission belongs on the pages of some pop science website, not HN.

19 points by tediousdemise 5y ago

Beware that curcurmin supplements can have high lead levels due to spiking with lead chromate for coloring high up in the supply chain. It's why I won't take it unless I can find a reliable brand that specifically tests for it. If you do take it, it's good to take with piperine (or just black pepper) for bioavailability.

r1ch 5y ago
Have any recommendations?
- fighterpilot 5y ago
  Unfortunately, no, although I didn't do a very exhaustive search.
  - r1ch 5y ago
    I was searching around on the subject and came across https://nootropicsdepot.com/longvida-curcumin-capsules/ https://nootropicsdepot.com/longvida-curcumin-capsules/ via Reddit which claims to do testing on their products with an in-house lab: https://nootropicsdepot.com/in-house-analytical-laboratory/ https://nootropicsdepot.com/in-house-analytical-laboratory/. Lead is mentioned but I don't know if lead chromate would be excluded from such a test. Looks more legitimate than most simple resellers but it could just be good marketing.
    - sooheon 5y ago
      FYI longvida is a brand name from a third party (Verdure Sciences), and ND is the reseller that claims to own and operate an internal testing lab.
gricardo99 5y ago
Any links or brands that provide this information?
JumpCrisscross 5y ago
Does powdered turmeric have the same issue? My parents eat loads of that stuff.
- graeme 5y ago
  Unfortunately yes: https://news.stanford.edu/2019/09/24/lead-found-turmeric/ https://news.stanford.edu/2019/09/24/lead-found-turmeric/ Though this article says it is specific to Bangladesh.
  - fighterpilot 5y ago
    This one covers Boston markets (figure 1): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5415259 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5415259
floatingatoll 5y ago
e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21069437 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21069437
elevenoh 5y ago
On this topic: for anyone generally concerned about their heavy metal levels, hit the sauna & sweat'em out. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312275/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312275/
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- graeme 5y ago
  Huh, fascinating. Apparently sauna use is associated with less heart disease risk too. As someone who tends not to sweat much (despite exercising), maybe I’ll consider this. What does one…..do in a spa, if not going with friends? Sit and contemplate? https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/sauna-use-linked-longer-life-fewer-fatal-heart-problems-201502257755 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/sauna-use-linked-longer-...
  - steve_adams_86 5y ago
    Research isn’t sufficient yet, largely due to lack of random data, but saunas appear to be very good for people. At least, those who are healthy enough to use them already. There’s no data I know of showing that healthy people shouldn’t use them. There is data showing that people with a sauna habit typically live healthier lives. The tricky part is, do healthier people develop the habit, or does the habit make them healthy?
    - fighterpilot 5y ago
      Anyone read about the impact on male fertility due to the heat exposure? I've heard about it in passing but don't know if it's a real risk.
      - graeme 5y ago
        Yeah heat definitely reduces sperm counts. One study found it reversed at six months. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23411620/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23411620/
whycombagator 5y ago
On lead: I think that’s true of a lot of spices. On black pepper: sure, but curcumin like Meriva absorbs even better. Meriva is sort of like the creapure (aka German creatine) of curcumin. On a brand to use/look at: I like solaray/jarrow/now. Jarrow meriva is what I use and they claim to test all products for heavy metals, but dont have COA (certificates of analysis) readily available so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

rhexs 5y ago

Search almost any disease + curcumin on pubmed and you’ll find plenty of studies claiming impact or showing murine/in vitro results. There have yet to be any high quality in vivo human studies demonstrating anything of value. Looking forward to the longvida Alzheimer’s trial that should be out in a few years.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

DoreenMichele 5y ago

I've tried curcumin. I wasn't impressed. It did little or nothing for me. From what I am reading, this seems to be an approach that treats symptoms, not cause(s). I think it would be better to ask "What is causing the inflammation?" Trying to control inflammation without knowing why it exists potentially makes things worse in the long run, even if it provides relief in the short run. This is the fundamental flaw with most medicines: We trade short-term gains for long-term costs, hand wave off the long terms costs and doctors get credit for "curing" your problem short term and wash their hands of long-term side effects, often chalking it up to the underlying condition for which you were nominally being treated.

Ovah 5y ago
I frankly disagree that antiinflammatory drugs having "long term costs". I'd be very interested if you have a paper to back that claim up. A couple decades ago it was common for rheumatic patients to end up in wheelchairs. Today that's very uncommon. I agree that most antirheumatic drugs, and most drugs in general, treat the symptoms rather than provide an outright cure. But that's enough to drastically reduce disease severity and increase quality of life. Actual cures might be ideal but we are far from there research-wise - at least for most rheumatic conditions.
- nradov 5y ago
  Acute inflammation as the result of an injury isn't something that should be suppressed. We now understand that it should be allowed to persist as part of the healing process, so long as it isn't causing other serious problems. Persistent, chronic inflammation is another thing altogether.
  - edmundsauto 5y ago
    Wait, really? You're not supposed to ice or take NSAIDs after an injury? Not doubting, just wondering when this changed and if other people have been following this advice.
    - 5y ago

elevenoh 5y ago

Curcumin (logevida type), for me, seems to reduce brain fog when it arises.

sooheon 5y ago

The first author of linked paper is (in)famous for being highly prolific and having a large number of retractions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bharat_Aggarwal#Scientific_misconduct https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bharat_Aggarwal#Scientific_mis... http://retractiondatabase.org/RetractionSearch.aspx?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1#?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport%3d1%26auth%3dAggarwal%252c%2bBharat%2bB http://retractiondatabase.org/RetractionSearch.aspx?AspxAuto... A more recent skeptical review of curcumin (https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.jmedchem.6b00975 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.jmedchem.6b00975) labels it an "invalid metabolic panacea" and a "pan-assay interference compound", arguing that it has properties that lead to a lot of false positives in initial activity screening that don't pan out: No double-blinded, placebo controlled clinical trial of curcumin has been successful.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

For a counterpoint, read Derek Lowe’s “Curcumin Will Waste Your Time” about all of the issues with Curcumin research: https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2017/01/12/curcumin-will-waste-your-time https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2017/01/12/cu... It’s also worth noting that Curcumin has been trialed for several conditions with no significant positive outcomes that I’m aware of. I think the truth falls somewhere in the middle. Curcumin isn’t the broad-acting wonder drug that some of these articles claim. However, it doesn’t appear to be completely inert, either. Be careful with marketing material from supplement vendors that focuses only on the positives. It’s not hard to find reports of Curcumin having various vague negative effects like reducing libido (apparently reverses several days after cessation) and other hard to pin down side effects. Finally, it’s important to keep in mind that not all inflammation is bad. Inflammatory signaling plays an important role in many biological processes and it is entirely possible to overdue it with anti-inflammatories in ways that become counterproductive.

nradov 5y ago

Also see this more recent randomized controlled trial study of a combination therapy for COVID-19 using honey and black cumin. It appears to be effective but the article is still in pre-print status and I don't think the results have been reproduced. Honey and Nigella sativa against COVID-19 in Pakistan (HNS-COVID-PK): A multi-center placebo-controlled randomized clinical trial Sohaib Ashraf, et al. medRxiv 2020.10.30.20217364; doi: https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.10.30.20217364 https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.10.30.20217364

jv22222 5y ago

Turmeric / curcumin are high in oxelates and can contribute to, or cause, kidney stones. On a personal note, I got a kidney stone after taking a curcumin supplement for 4 months. I don’t want to gross anyone out, but once out, it was the exact same color as the orange of the supplements. Just one data point, YMMV

michaelefisher 5y ago

As someone who has been on Humira for 4 years, I find this infuriating. Yeah, it’s expensive (this is more about US pharmaceutical licensing than anything else). But it works. Biologics are wonder drugs and the thought that curcumin comes close to putting these diseases into into remission belongs on the pages of some pop science website, not HN.