3 ms·

> That nice collision avoidance/lane keeper and camera system? that was implemented as a countermeasure for increasing A and B pillar size after regulatory agen

> That nice collision avoidance/lane keeper and camera system? that was implemented as a countermeasure for increasing A and B pillar size after regulatory agencies decided too many americans were getting crushed to death in roll-over accidents. I don't buy this. It is simply a competitive advantage enabling those systems, plus being software-heavy, they do scale well. Thicker pillars are not a bad thing. Visibility is not appreciably limited by them either. If that was the case we would have a significant differential in crash statistics between the trims of the same cars with and without those systems. They would have different safety ratings. > no infofainment means they are safer for the driver, Unless you have data, I strongly doubt this too. No infotainment means people will handle their phone more often for navigation, music, calls etc. Stuff like CarPlay don't even allow time seeking sliders on music interfaces, they are much less distracting than full fidelity mobile interfaces. > older cars teach you a healthy fear of operating a 2000lb rolling death machine By that token motorcycles would teach you a healthy fear of operating without a chassis, and thus a safer vehicle?

unethical_ban 5y ago
>Thicker pillars are not a bad thing. Visibility is not appreciably limited by them either. One Hundred Percent inaccurate. I can't see shit out of my 2014 crossover when turning to check blindspots, compared to my 90s trucks and cars I've driven. Hell, backup cameras are mandated on all new cars in the US (they are very useful, but it's also because you can't see out of your own car). >By that token motorcycles would teach you a healthy fear of operating without a chassis, and thus a safer vehicle? I think driving a motorcycle creates safer drivers, absolutely. I take the stance when driving, turning, merging, etc. that at any moment, any car near me is going to do something stupid. Either not see my lane-change signal, or cross the stop-sign despite it being my turn, etc. Every person who has proactively described that level of defensive driving (that I have talked to in conversation) had at one point or another been a motorcycle rider.
- jedberg 5y ago
  > I can't see shit out of my 2014 crossover when turning to check blindspots I learned to adjust my blind spot to be two lanes over so that I can see anything next to me in my mirrors. Checking my blindspot means looking directly out the window so that pillars don't get in the way. It's similar to how trucks do it, since they can't see out the back. Something you may want to look into -- adjusting your blind spot so you don't have to look at your pillar.
alamortsubite 5y ago
> Thicker pillars are not a bad thing. Visibility is not appreciably limited by them either. They really do! If you want to know what it's like transitioning from my 1980's compact SUV into my gf's 2021 compact SUV, don one of those cheap Halloween masks you wore as a kid and leave it on as you go about your business the rest of the day. Steel-toed shoes would make a great complement. > By that token motorcycles would teach you a healthy fear of operating without a chassis, and thus a safer vehicle? If you're referring to a perceived lack of concern for personal safety among a subset of motorcyclists, try handing one them the keys to a Bugatti Veyron and see if their behavior improves. Psychological issues with this demographic aside, would you be willing to ride an ordinary bicycle at freeway speeds if you were able? If yes, do you think you would spend much time looking at your phone while doing so?
- blowfish721 5y ago
  There’s a reason why heart surgeons have nicknamed motorcycles ”donor cycles”. An unprotective vehicle in the hands of a young male who doesn’t yet grasp his own mortality.
  - renewiltord 5y ago
    Joke’s on them, I opted out of organ donation.
  - nradov 5y ago
    "When I finished high school I wanted to take all my graduation money and buy myself a motorcycle. Buy my mom said no. See, she had a brother who died in a horrible motorcycle accident when he was 18. And I could just have his motorcycle." -Anthony Jeselnik
    - _carbyau_ 5y ago
      As a motorcyclist, I would be sad to hear the story of the uncle's death. And I would gladly ride the bike. The two are not necessarily connected except through premise.
jedberg 5y ago
> Stuff like CarPlay don't even allow time seeking sliders on music interfaces Which I never understood, because it really just makes me want to pick up my phone and use the slider there, which is far more dangerous.
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
>I don't buy this. It is simply a competitive advantage enabling those systems, Someone like you was probably saying the same thing about ABS on a BBS back in 1996. These features get implemented in the higher end segments of the market and then adoption plateaus. Most people are not going to spend thousands of dollars to have a marginally better chance of a avoiding a "less than once in a lifetime" type accident. ABS is even more useful than that and its adoption plateaued before the feds mandated it.
- acituan 5y ago
  > Someone like you was probably saying the same thing about ABS on a BBS back in 1996. Someone like me said ABS is purely a competitive advantage feature despite the fact that its adoption in mainstream cars struggled? That person must be rather incoherent. > ABS is even more useful than that and its adoption plateaued before the feds mandated it. Let's not overgeneralize the competitive advantage angle to all safety features, that would be strawmanning. Stuff like lane keep assist, adaptive cruise control are very different beasts than ABS. They have been popular features in no small part because they also offer comfort, and have luxurious connotations e.g. like Tesla's autopilot. Besides they've been cheaper to add at lower trims as defaults because like I said they are mainly software driven features and therefore the costs scale well, especially considering the vertical integration between luxury and mainstream car brands. E.g. it only costs the windshield camera and the 2 sensors to add the auto breaking feature to a Honda, when you already have the software of an Acura.

unethical_ban 5y ago

>Thicker pillars are not a bad thing. Visibility is not appreciably limited by them either. One Hundred Percent inaccurate. I can't see shit out of my 2014 crossover when turning to check blindspots, compared to my 90s trucks and cars I've driven. Hell, backup cameras are mandated on all new cars in the US (they are very useful, but it's also because you can't see out of your own car). >By that token motorcycles would teach you a healthy fear of operating without a chassis, and thus a safer vehicle? I think driving a motorcycle creates safer drivers, absolutely. I take the stance when driving, turning, merging, etc. that at any moment, any car near me is going to do something stupid. Either not see my lane-change signal, or cross the stop-sign despite it being my turn, etc. Every person who has proactively described that level of defensive driving (that I have talked to in conversation) had at one point or another been a motorcycle rider.

jedberg 5y ago
> I can't see shit out of my 2014 crossover when turning to check blindspots I learned to adjust my blind spot to be two lanes over so that I can see anything next to me in my mirrors. Checking my blindspot means looking directly out the window so that pillars don't get in the way. It's similar to how trucks do it, since they can't see out the back. Something you may want to look into -- adjusting your blind spot so you don't have to look at your pillar.

alamortsubite 5y ago

> Thicker pillars are not a bad thing. Visibility is not appreciably limited by them either. They really do! If you want to know what it's like transitioning from my 1980's compact SUV into my gf's 2021 compact SUV, don one of those cheap Halloween masks you wore as a kid and leave it on as you go about your business the rest of the day. Steel-toed shoes would make a great complement. > By that token motorcycles would teach you a healthy fear of operating without a chassis, and thus a safer vehicle? If you're referring to a perceived lack of concern for personal safety among a subset of motorcyclists, try handing one them the keys to a Bugatti Veyron and see if their behavior improves. Psychological issues with this demographic aside, would you be willing to ride an ordinary bicycle at freeway speeds if you were able? If yes, do you think you would spend much time looking at your phone while doing so?

blowfish721 5y ago
There’s a reason why heart surgeons have nicknamed motorcycles ”donor cycles”. An unprotective vehicle in the hands of a young male who doesn’t yet grasp his own mortality.
- renewiltord 5y ago
  Joke’s on them, I opted out of organ donation.
- nradov 5y ago
  "When I finished high school I wanted to take all my graduation money and buy myself a motorcycle. Buy my mom said no. See, she had a brother who died in a horrible motorcycle accident when he was 18. And I could just have his motorcycle." -Anthony Jeselnik
  - _carbyau_ 5y ago
    As a motorcyclist, I would be sad to hear the story of the uncle's death. And I would gladly ride the bike. The two are not necessarily connected except through premise.

jedberg 5y ago

> Stuff like CarPlay don't even allow time seeking sliders on music interfaces Which I never understood, because it really just makes me want to pick up my phone and use the slider there, which is far more dangerous.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

>I don't buy this. It is simply a competitive advantage enabling those systems, Someone like you was probably saying the same thing about ABS on a BBS back in 1996. These features get implemented in the higher end segments of the market and then adoption plateaus. Most people are not going to spend thousands of dollars to have a marginally better chance of a avoiding a "less than once in a lifetime" type accident. ABS is even more useful than that and its adoption plateaued before the feds mandated it.

acituan 5y ago
> Someone like you was probably saying the same thing about ABS on a BBS back in 1996. Someone like me said ABS is purely a competitive advantage feature despite the fact that its adoption in mainstream cars struggled? That person must be rather incoherent. > ABS is even more useful than that and its adoption plateaued before the feds mandated it. Let's not overgeneralize the competitive advantage angle to all safety features, that would be strawmanning. Stuff like lane keep assist, adaptive cruise control are very different beasts than ABS. They have been popular features in no small part because they also offer comfort, and have luxurious connotations e.g. like Tesla's autopilot. Besides they've been cheaper to add at lower trims as defaults because like I said they are mainly software driven features and therefore the costs scale well, especially considering the vertical integration between luxury and mainstream car brands. E.g. it only costs the windshield camera and the 2 sensors to add the auto breaking feature to a Honda, when you already have the software of an Acura.