3 ms·

In my experience on forums, when someone makes a grand contrarian claim (“vaccines are risky”) and then cites a video without explaining why it is relevant or s

by graeme 5y ago

In my experience on forums, when someone makes a grand contrarian claim (“vaccines are risky”) and then cites a video without explaining why it is relevant or summing it up, the claims indeed have extremely high odds of being crackpot claims.

takeda 5y ago
All those videos are repeating the same thing over and over, with some changes (some that are even contradicting themselves). People who are into it they hear it so many times that it seem so obvious to them, but whenever they try to explain it to someone else themselves they are realizing they have difficulty, because everything is falling apart. They think it's because they aren't the experts so they link to videos instead. They don't realize that they have problem explaining it, because the argument is very weak, and if you think about it, it doesn't make much sense.
- ganzuul 5y ago
  Not in this case. But the censors don't care.
pepperberg 5y ago
Where do you see the "crackpot claims" in this situation? He/she just stated that "inclusive discussion is being suppressed", showing a recently removed YT video. For anyone who can't take 30s to look it up: It is a discussion between 3 individuals (2 of them already fully vaccinated with Moderna) regarding the pandemic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XkRq4PaHqo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XkRq4PaHqo
- ganzuul 5y ago
  And one of them is Robert Malone, who invented the mRNA tech that was used to develop the vaccines. All they are trying to do is have a rational, inclusive discussion based on the data they have gathered, but they are not being allowed to do so.
  - graeme 5y ago
    Malone seems a curious case. He clearly has many highly cited papers. But I couldn’t find a single mention of him outside anti-vaccine conspiracy sites. Do you have any link to any coverage or him and his career? Not from himself or such sources.
- graeme 5y ago
  They said they’re waiting to get vaccinated. That’s what I was referring to. Then they linked a 3 hour long video without bother to write a short summary of why it might be worth our time. It diverts attention away from an argument within thread and appeals to an indigestible authority which can’t be argued against without spending three hours. And right away there are signs of bad faith. The comment below you bills Robert Malone as “the inventor of mRNA tech”. I’m sure he had some role but there’s no wikipedia on him, and the title of inventor of mrna usually goes to Katalin Kariko. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katalin_Karikó https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katalin_Karikó So either everything is a lie, or Malone’s claims are exaggerated. It seems easier to believe the latter. I searched and I cannot find a single piece evaluating Dr. Malone’s claims. Just conspiracy comments that accept him as inventor with no analysis. I’ll admit the situation is odd. Malone is clearly real and has many old highly cited papers. What the heck happened between now and the early 2000s, and why is the press devoid of mentions? https://scholar.google.ca/citations?user=Jf1bApYAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=ao https://scholar.google.ca/citations?user=Jf1bApYAAAAJ&hl=en&...
  - pepperberg 5y ago
    You're right, they should have written a short summary of the content and not make us research it ourselves. I wouldn't use "there's no Wikipedia on him" as an argument. Karikó's entry is only 1 year old [1]. Additionally, it seems that Karikó's work acknowledges contributions from Malone [2]. Whether he's the original inventor or not, whether his claims are true or false, should be up for debate. But isn't that enough to at least tolerate his opinion on YouTube? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Katalin_Karikó&offset=20200516220938%7C957078717&limit=100&action=history https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Katalin_Karikó&of... [2] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0005273697002381?via%3Dihub#aep-acknowledgment-id18 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S000527369...

by graeme 5y ago

takeda 5y ago

All those videos are repeating the same thing over and over, with some changes (some that are even contradicting themselves). People who are into it they hear it so many times that it seem so obvious to them, but whenever they try to explain it to someone else themselves they are realizing they have difficulty, because everything is falling apart. They think it's because they aren't the experts so they link to videos instead. They don't realize that they have problem explaining it, because the argument is very weak, and if you think about it, it doesn't make much sense.

ganzuul 5y ago
Not in this case. But the censors don't care.

pepperberg 5y ago

Where do you see the "crackpot claims" in this situation? He/she just stated that "inclusive discussion is being suppressed", showing a recently removed YT video. For anyone who can't take 30s to look it up: It is a discussion between 3 individuals (2 of them already fully vaccinated with Moderna) regarding the pandemic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XkRq4PaHqo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XkRq4PaHqo

ganzuul 5y ago
And one of them is Robert Malone, who invented the mRNA tech that was used to develop the vaccines. All they are trying to do is have a rational, inclusive discussion based on the data they have gathered, but they are not being allowed to do so.
- graeme 5y ago
  Malone seems a curious case. He clearly has many highly cited papers. But I couldn’t find a single mention of him outside anti-vaccine conspiracy sites. Do you have any link to any coverage or him and his career? Not from himself or such sources.
graeme 5y ago
They said they’re waiting to get vaccinated. That’s what I was referring to. Then they linked a 3 hour long video without bother to write a short summary of why it might be worth our time. It diverts attention away from an argument within thread and appeals to an indigestible authority which can’t be argued against without spending three hours. And right away there are signs of bad faith. The comment below you bills Robert Malone as “the inventor of mRNA tech”. I’m sure he had some role but there’s no wikipedia on him, and the title of inventor of mrna usually goes to Katalin Kariko. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katalin_Karikó https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katalin_Karikó So either everything is a lie, or Malone’s claims are exaggerated. It seems easier to believe the latter. I searched and I cannot find a single piece evaluating Dr. Malone’s claims. Just conspiracy comments that accept him as inventor with no analysis. I’ll admit the situation is odd. Malone is clearly real and has many old highly cited papers. What the heck happened between now and the early 2000s, and why is the press devoid of mentions? https://scholar.google.ca/citations?user=Jf1bApYAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=ao https://scholar.google.ca/citations?user=Jf1bApYAAAAJ&hl=en&...
- pepperberg 5y ago
  You're right, they should have written a short summary of the content and not make us research it ourselves. I wouldn't use "there's no Wikipedia on him" as an argument. Karikó's entry is only 1 year old [1]. Additionally, it seems that Karikó's work acknowledges contributions from Malone [2]. Whether he's the original inventor or not, whether his claims are true or false, should be up for debate. But isn't that enough to at least tolerate his opinion on YouTube? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Katalin_Karikó&offset=20200516220938%7C957078717&limit=100&action=history https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Katalin_Karikó&of... [2] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0005273697002381?via%3Dihub#aep-acknowledgment-id18 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S000527369...