4 ms·

You're discounting the immense carbon footprint of building a new car then shipping it to the dealer. A number I remember, that might be wrong, is that over 50%

You're discounting the immense carbon footprint of building a new car then shipping it to the dealer. A number I remember, that might be wrong, is that over 50% of a car's lifetime emissions happen before it leaves the factory. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-living-blog/2010/sep/23/carbon-footprint-new-car https://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-living-blog/20...

prions 5y ago
I'm not discounting it. I just care more about point-source pollution than carbon footprints abstracted across a global supply chain. The footprints can be reduced at scale over time, whereas these cars will be continuously producing more pollution as they age.
- defterGoose 5y ago
  This is a really misguided opinion. Even an EV still has a significant carbon footprint in terms of electricity production. While it is possible to reduce or negate this with renewables in the future, its much less likely that building them now has a less significant carbon footprint. Plus, the old ICE vehicles people are driving are still providing lots of value with their cost already sunk. Its not like a lot of people are daily driving their classic Impala from the 60s.
- shkkmo 5y ago
  > The footprints can be reduced at scale over time Which arguably supports driving older cars longer because not only does it reduce the overall frequency of car manufacturer, it also pushes that manufacturing process further into the future when the environmental impact of manufacturing a replacement would be lower.
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  > I'm not discounting it. I just care more about point-source pollution than carbon footprints abstracted across a global supply chain. Pardon me, but isn't that the definition of 'discounting'?. As in, you're ignoring that portion of the carbon footprint.
bongoman37 5y ago
Yeah, blast furnaces aren't exactly carbon neutral.
- Scoundreller 5y ago
  Cars get recycled though, maybe not to automotive steel grade, but autos are more like metal storage than metal destruction.
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    Metals can be recycled perfectly to space/medical/marine/any grade, they do not degrade like plasics. You can get a collection of metal scraps and produce pure elemental iron if you want
ClumsyPilot 5y ago
"over 50% of a car's lifetime emissions happen before it leaves the factory." Totally wrong, it's only 20% Think about it - if most of emission wad in production, electric cars would make no sence, they have higher production footprint and lower running footprint https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/society/20190313STO31218/co2-emissions-from-cars-facts-and-figures-infographics https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/society/201...

prions 5y ago

I'm not discounting it. I just care more about point-source pollution than carbon footprints abstracted across a global supply chain. The footprints can be reduced at scale over time, whereas these cars will be continuously producing more pollution as they age.

defterGoose 5y ago
This is a really misguided opinion. Even an EV still has a significant carbon footprint in terms of electricity production. While it is possible to reduce or negate this with renewables in the future, its much less likely that building them now has a less significant carbon footprint. Plus, the old ICE vehicles people are driving are still providing lots of value with their cost already sunk. Its not like a lot of people are daily driving their classic Impala from the 60s.
shkkmo 5y ago
> The footprints can be reduced at scale over time Which arguably supports driving older cars longer because not only does it reduce the overall frequency of car manufacturer, it also pushes that manufacturing process further into the future when the environmental impact of manufacturing a replacement would be lower.
systemvoltage 5y ago
> I'm not discounting it. I just care more about point-source pollution than carbon footprints abstracted across a global supply chain. Pardon me, but isn't that the definition of 'discounting'?. As in, you're ignoring that portion of the carbon footprint.

bongoman37 5y ago

Yeah, blast furnaces aren't exactly carbon neutral.

Scoundreller 5y ago
Cars get recycled though, maybe not to automotive steel grade, but autos are more like metal storage than metal destruction.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  Metals can be recycled perfectly to space/medical/marine/any grade, they do not degrade like plasics. You can get a collection of metal scraps and produce pure elemental iron if you want

ClumsyPilot 5y ago

"over 50% of a car's lifetime emissions happen before it leaves the factory." Totally wrong, it's only 20% Think about it - if most of emission wad in production, electric cars would make no sence, they have higher production footprint and lower running footprint https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/society/20190313STO31218/co2-emissions-from-cars-facts-and-figures-infographics https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/society/201...