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I actually really dislike this whole post. There’s a really condescending tone lurking just beneath the surface for most of it. It’s also extremely hand-wavy ab

by japhib 5y ago

I actually really dislike this whole post. There’s a really condescending tone lurking just beneath the surface for most of it. It’s also extremely hand-wavy about the problems, their causes, AND possible solutions. Also, so whiny. At this point I don’t care if he even has any good ideas because he’s made me so mad just by his writing style.

TimTheTinker 5y ago
Perhaps he's a generation or two older, and doesn't want to go into a lot of technical detail to back up his opinion. I think his perspective is valuable. He's seen a lot, and he's right that we could do to learn a few things from the past.
- stickfigure 5y ago
  I'm probably older than he is, and it seems whiny to me.
- bawolff 5y ago
  What value is an opinion if you can't back it up?
  - TimTheTinker 5y ago
    David Hilbert published a list of 23 open problems in mathematics near the turn of the 20th century, and they served to goad the mathematics community into action for the next 75 years at least (some are still unsolved, but most were solved). Saying "this is a problem that should be solved" might betray a lack of knowledge of an existing solution, but hand-waving such an assertion away and saying "he can't back up his opinion" isn't helpful. If he's wrong, anyone can show why by demonstrating a correct solution to the problem - and then we'll all learn something.
    - theamk 5y ago
      That person is no David Hilbert. As multiple comments says, many of the problems he talks about are already solved. And some of them were solved in the past and solutions abandoned. If you want to learn something, you will be much better off starting from a post which does not ignore existing state of the field.
      - TimTheTinker 5y ago
        I'm mostly interested in this post because the contrast he draws between AWS and z/OS deeply resonates with me. What if someone built an OS to deal with cloud-scale problems at the ground level - in the kernel? This isn't to say the likes of S3 or DynamoDB should be implemented in kernel space (far from it). But the mishmash of services AWS does offer seems to be more about solving cloud-scale problems without implementing an OS, while creating a lot of DevOps jobs and a ton of vendor lock-in. At this point, AWS reminds me a lot of Windows Server: lots of UI, object-heavy scripting, a huge suite of expensive vendor-specific products, and a sheer inelegance about how the whole thing is built. I also see a lot of personality similarities between Windows admins in corporate IT of the 2000s and today's AWS DevOps professionals. Linux finally took down Windows Server because it had superior qualities as a development OS and was cheaper to run on server hardware. It also had a long history of people just building cool stuff on it... I have no idea what innovation will finally take down AWS, but perhaps mainframe OS's are a promising trail to go down (if infrastructure-as-code could be applied).
        theamk 5y ago
        AWS does not have to be "lots of UI" and "Windows admins" -- Terraform, CloudFormation, and other infra-as-code solution are totally a thing, and bring modern, UI-less practices to to infrastructure services. If you are in the company which has corporate culture of "let's use AWS todaly like we used Windows 20 years ago" it may seem that the whole world is like that.. but it is not, there are plenty of other companies with different cultures! Re "OS to deal with cloud-scale problems at the ground level - in the kernel" -- I cannot make sense of that. Why on earth would it matter which OS do services use? For all that I care, Amazon could rewrite DynamoDB using AmigaOS and I would not even notice. It is all the same HTTP calls -- and this is one of the good things about the system. People can use AWS services from windows, linux, mac, mobile, even things like FreeRTOS, using any programming language they like. I guess you can create one more OS which is designed with AWS use in mind, but I doubt it will be a big game changer.
    - bawolff 5y ago
      David hilbert's list is like the opposite of this list. It was a list of pretty fundamental problems with huge implications. The author of this list specificly states that they are problems that should be easy to work on. That's very different. Most of the ideas are ideas that have been done in the past. Some are just bad ideas, others just didn't catch on, perhaps due to chance or fashion. None of them really have compelling stories behind them. There's millions of things in the world that could be solved. A list of some subset is boring. The "Why" is the interesting part.
nixpulvis 5y ago
I don't find it whiney at all. I do agree it's a little condescending, and that it's got a bit of a rambling flow; from semi-technical to straight bitching, all the way around to political.
- jtsiskin 5y ago
  And randomly insults Lauren Sánchez’s appearance; seems like a weird thing to throw into an article about software..
approxim8ion 5y ago
Author belongs to the special class of people who think sounding like a dick makes them more authoritative. All their posts are like that.
- StandardFuture 5y ago
  > class of people who think sounding like a dick makes them more authoritative It's a writing style. Like it or hate it. Nonetheless, criticisms of writing style are far too cheap and shallow for HN. Be better.
  - coopsmoss 5y ago
    I disagree, I think it's a perfectly reasonable to critique someone's writing, and by extension the author. You can't be rude and justify it by saying "it's just my management style" or "it's just my personality".
    - StandardFuture 5y ago
      You did not actually prove how exactly launching criticisms of the writing style over the content is not cheap. You can hate and critique the writing style all you want, but focusing on that in your HN comments is in fact the very notion of cheap commentary. So, would you like to try again? Are you intellectually capable of providing a proper retort?
    - StandardFuture 5y ago
      > and by extension the author. I love how idiots on HN are justifying blatant ad hominem attacks in their commentary as being perfectly valid. WTF is HN becoming? Are people really getting this stupid?
  - rishav_sharan 5y ago
    If the "writing style" consists of calling a random woman, one who has no connection to the topic at hand, cheap and nasty names - then it's better that such drivel is not even submitted on HN. We are better than this.
na85 5y ago
Contrarily I love this post. The first point I don't care about because I avoid C whenever possible but I agree with all the rest. Electron is awful. So are phones. These things don't have to be so.
Aeolun 5y ago
I actually tried doing the native GUI thing, but I gave up when I found out I couldn’t do that without having to reimplement something as simple as an autocomplete dropdown. Yes, the native select has something like it, but it only reacts to typing the first characters, and you can’t style the results. I guess some would call this a feature, but the customizability of HTML makes for a lot of good things as well.
- superdisk 5y ago
  > You can't style the results Good.
rishav_sharan 5y ago
I started with some interest in this post but stopped reading when the author started saying nasty stuff about Bezos's wife. How is she remotely connected to this post? Why try to shame her for her looks or cosmetic choices? The author is trying to hard to be edgy without being humourous or having the depth of idea that could have saved this.

by japhib 5y ago

TimTheTinker 5y ago

Perhaps he's a generation or two older, and doesn't want to go into a lot of technical detail to back up his opinion. I think his perspective is valuable. He's seen a lot, and he's right that we could do to learn a few things from the past.

stickfigure 5y ago
I'm probably older than he is, and it seems whiny to me.
bawolff 5y ago
What value is an opinion if you can't back it up?
- TimTheTinker 5y ago
  David Hilbert published a list of 23 open problems in mathematics near the turn of the 20th century, and they served to goad the mathematics community into action for the next 75 years at least (some are still unsolved, but most were solved). Saying "this is a problem that should be solved" might betray a lack of knowledge of an existing solution, but hand-waving such an assertion away and saying "he can't back up his opinion" isn't helpful. If he's wrong, anyone can show why by demonstrating a correct solution to the problem - and then we'll all learn something.
  - theamk 5y ago
    That person is no David Hilbert. As multiple comments says, many of the problems he talks about are already solved. And some of them were solved in the past and solutions abandoned. If you want to learn something, you will be much better off starting from a post which does not ignore existing state of the field.
    - TimTheTinker 5y ago
      I'm mostly interested in this post because the contrast he draws between AWS and z/OS deeply resonates with me. What if someone built an OS to deal with cloud-scale problems at the ground level - in the kernel? This isn't to say the likes of S3 or DynamoDB should be implemented in kernel space (far from it). But the mishmash of services AWS does offer seems to be more about solving cloud-scale problems without implementing an OS, while creating a lot of DevOps jobs and a ton of vendor lock-in. At this point, AWS reminds me a lot of Windows Server: lots of UI, object-heavy scripting, a huge suite of expensive vendor-specific products, and a sheer inelegance about how the whole thing is built. I also see a lot of personality similarities between Windows admins in corporate IT of the 2000s and today's AWS DevOps professionals. Linux finally took down Windows Server because it had superior qualities as a development OS and was cheaper to run on server hardware. It also had a long history of people just building cool stuff on it... I have no idea what innovation will finally take down AWS, but perhaps mainframe OS's are a promising trail to go down (if infrastructure-as-code could be applied).
      - theamk 5y ago
        AWS does not have to be "lots of UI" and "Windows admins" -- Terraform, CloudFormation, and other infra-as-code solution are totally a thing, and bring modern, UI-less practices to to infrastructure services. If you are in the company which has corporate culture of "let's use AWS todaly like we used Windows 20 years ago" it may seem that the whole world is like that.. but it is not, there are plenty of other companies with different cultures! Re "OS to deal with cloud-scale problems at the ground level - in the kernel" -- I cannot make sense of that. Why on earth would it matter which OS do services use? For all that I care, Amazon could rewrite DynamoDB using AmigaOS and I would not even notice. It is all the same HTTP calls -- and this is one of the good things about the system. People can use AWS services from windows, linux, mac, mobile, even things like FreeRTOS, using any programming language they like. I guess you can create one more OS which is designed with AWS use in mind, but I doubt it will be a big game changer.
  - bawolff 5y ago
    David hilbert's list is like the opposite of this list. It was a list of pretty fundamental problems with huge implications. The author of this list specificly states that they are problems that should be easy to work on. That's very different. Most of the ideas are ideas that have been done in the past. Some are just bad ideas, others just didn't catch on, perhaps due to chance or fashion. None of them really have compelling stories behind them. There's millions of things in the world that could be solved. A list of some subset is boring. The "Why" is the interesting part.

nixpulvis 5y ago

I don't find it whiney at all. I do agree it's a little condescending, and that it's got a bit of a rambling flow; from semi-technical to straight bitching, all the way around to political.

jtsiskin 5y ago
And randomly insults Lauren Sánchez’s appearance; seems like a weird thing to throw into an article about software..

approxim8ion 5y ago

Author belongs to the special class of people who think sounding like a dick makes them more authoritative. All their posts are like that.

StandardFuture 5y ago
> class of people who think sounding like a dick makes them more authoritative It's a writing style. Like it or hate it. Nonetheless, criticisms of writing style are far too cheap and shallow for HN. Be better.
- coopsmoss 5y ago
  I disagree, I think it's a perfectly reasonable to critique someone's writing, and by extension the author. You can't be rude and justify it by saying "it's just my management style" or "it's just my personality".
  - StandardFuture 5y ago
    You did not actually prove how exactly launching criticisms of the writing style over the content is not cheap. You can hate and critique the writing style all you want, but focusing on that in your HN comments is in fact the very notion of cheap commentary. So, would you like to try again? Are you intellectually capable of providing a proper retort?
  - StandardFuture 5y ago
    > and by extension the author. I love how idiots on HN are justifying blatant ad hominem attacks in their commentary as being perfectly valid. WTF is HN becoming? Are people really getting this stupid?
- rishav_sharan 5y ago
  If the "writing style" consists of calling a random woman, one who has no connection to the topic at hand, cheap and nasty names - then it's better that such drivel is not even submitted on HN. We are better than this.

na85 5y ago

Contrarily I love this post. The first point I don't care about because I avoid C whenever possible but I agree with all the rest. Electron is awful. So are phones. These things don't have to be so.

Aeolun 5y ago

I actually tried doing the native GUI thing, but I gave up when I found out I couldn’t do that without having to reimplement something as simple as an autocomplete dropdown. Yes, the native select has something like it, but it only reacts to typing the first characters, and you can’t style the results. I guess some would call this a feature, but the customizability of HTML makes for a lot of good things as well.

superdisk 5y ago
> You can't style the results Good.

rishav_sharan 5y ago

I started with some interest in this post but stopped reading when the author started saying nasty stuff about Bezos's wife. How is she remotely connected to this post? Why try to shame her for her looks or cosmetic choices? The author is trying to hard to be edgy without being humourous or having the depth of idea that could have saved this.