6 ms·

I agree, but just a note: it doesn't do your career any good to hop a lot. I won't hire someone that looks flaky. If you find yourself at a bad job, sure, move

I agree, but just a note: it doesn't do your career any good to hop a lot. I won't hire someone that looks flaky. If you find yourself at a bad job, sure, move on. But work on sussing out the good from the bad so you don't put yourself in a bad situation repeatedly.

eyelidlessness 5y ago
Last I checked, nearly everyone in tech hops jobs frequently. In fact that’s common advice for comp advancement. In my personal experience that advice holds true, even though I change jobs much less frequently than most of my peers (which means my comp tends to lag behind theirs).
- smitty1e 5y ago
  What is "frequently"? I'd like to see a minimum of three years ahead of a transition, and a decent story why. Often the contract ends, the company is sold and the new policies are draconian, etc. Fine. Given the level of effort involved in bringing someone on, my outfit cannot afford to be staffed like a fast food joint.
  - eyelidlessness 5y ago
    From memory: last I heard the average is 18 months. I don’t know if that was accurate then or still is, nor how much it varies regionally or by any other criteria (I can look it up later but had a quick moment to reply and HN moves fast and might fill in the gap before I can take more time to look).
  - beckingz 5y ago
    What is an acceptable duration for someone to stay at your outfit?
    - smitty1e 5y ago
      Plenty of career people at this consultancy. Also transplants. I just passed 5 years.
      - hdhjebebeb 5y ago
        Consulting is a little unique in my experience - if there's a steady stream of work, you never really stick with the same client full time for the full 5 years. It's a lot easier to keep your skills fresh and move around to find interesting challenges
      - alchemism 5y ago
        Does your employer offer its people the 10-20% annual salary increase so they do not have to look elsewhere for what the market is willing to provide? I ask this seriously.
        smitty1e 5y ago
        No, that sounds a bit excessive. If you're growing the business at a healthy clip, maybe those sorts of raises are sustainable.
- barrkel 5y ago
  I've refused to hire people who job-hopped every year or two. With a record like that, there's zero reason to expect they're going to stick around. Why invest in bringing them up to speed if they're just going to leave?
  - eyelidlessness 5y ago
    Well, I think other people hire them because there’s high demand for talent and that kind of churn is expected. If you’re not having difficulty hiring while rejecting those candidates, that suggests you’re probably attracting people like me who stick around longer (for better or worse all around) or something about your offer is appealing to talent who have a knack for finding good long term opportunities.
  - inopinatus 5y ago
    Because maybe they’re just looking for the right environment, and maybe you’re it. Hiring is like dating, after all. This reads instead like an egregious case of the fundamental attribution error, and one that’d I’d view as quite the blunder by my management team, since the real consequence is limiting our access to the talent pool. Even aside from the FAE, this kind of attitude also systematically reinforces structural discrimination within an industry, since candidates from unusual or unprivileged backgrounds are less likely to have been offered major career opportunities, or been obliged to juggle many life priorities along the way, and thereby more likely to have taken whatever they could get, or could realistically manage. Yet these can be some of the most interesting hires, thanks to their diverse/alternative perspectives, and may also be top-tier outliers when it comes to resilience, self-management, and self-directed learning. It’s also a failure of values since there’s an underlying assumption that people are interchangeable widgets, which is both false and dehumanising. For my own account, I hopped a lot in my early career before finding places where I felt I could belong and stay for years, and this pattern has repeated. So you’d likely have taken a pass on me whilst I went on to become senior this and principal that elsewhere, en route to starting my own firm. Go figure.
    - WalterBright 5y ago
      > Hiring is like dating, after all. Past behavior is a pretty good predictor of future behavior. If you're dating someone whose previous 3 spouses died in mysterious kiln explosions, I'd stay away from the ceramics factory.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  In my experience, it is hard to tell the difference between someone who killed it at a job for 1 year and moved on from someone who couldn't hack it and moved on. Promotion at a company signifies that they were well received and able to adapt and meet milestones. Same job title in and out reads to me to believe that they couldn't hack it and were no goes development opportunity. IMHO, a promotion before you leave confer s legitamacy to your tenure.
  - HaNeThrowAway 5y ago
    What if there are no promotions to be had? My longest tenure at any one company was 8 years and I never got promoted because it was all remote and I was technically an independent contractor. No one got promoted.
    - s1artibartfast 5y ago
      I am not saying it is a perfect system, but that would a red flag for a full time employee.
mylons 5y ago
ok boomer. i’ve been on interview panels at several companies due to hopping. someone on the panel will mention it, someone else who wants to hire them will say it’s not a big deal and go from there.
ddelt 5y ago
I’m sorry but I very much disagree. Each hop netted me much better work-life balance and much higher pay, and actually broadened my horizons and whag I bring to the table because I have experienced a wide array of corporate cultures and team styles. What DOESN’T do wonders for your career is thinking/hoping/praying that sticking it out at a subpar company year after year will magically bring you those same benefits, if it’s not already happening and you’ve already asked politely for it to be resolved.

eyelidlessness 5y ago

Last I checked, nearly everyone in tech hops jobs frequently. In fact that’s common advice for comp advancement. In my personal experience that advice holds true, even though I change jobs much less frequently than most of my peers (which means my comp tends to lag behind theirs).

smitty1e 5y ago
What is "frequently"? I'd like to see a minimum of three years ahead of a transition, and a decent story why. Often the contract ends, the company is sold and the new policies are draconian, etc. Fine. Given the level of effort involved in bringing someone on, my outfit cannot afford to be staffed like a fast food joint.
- eyelidlessness 5y ago
  From memory: last I heard the average is 18 months. I don’t know if that was accurate then or still is, nor how much it varies regionally or by any other criteria (I can look it up later but had a quick moment to reply and HN moves fast and might fill in the gap before I can take more time to look).
- beckingz 5y ago
  What is an acceptable duration for someone to stay at your outfit?
  - smitty1e 5y ago
    Plenty of career people at this consultancy. Also transplants. I just passed 5 years.
    - hdhjebebeb 5y ago
      Consulting is a little unique in my experience - if there's a steady stream of work, you never really stick with the same client full time for the full 5 years. It's a lot easier to keep your skills fresh and move around to find interesting challenges
    - alchemism 5y ago
      Does your employer offer its people the 10-20% annual salary increase so they do not have to look elsewhere for what the market is willing to provide? I ask this seriously.
      - smitty1e 5y ago
        No, that sounds a bit excessive. If you're growing the business at a healthy clip, maybe those sorts of raises are sustainable.
barrkel 5y ago
I've refused to hire people who job-hopped every year or two. With a record like that, there's zero reason to expect they're going to stick around. Why invest in bringing them up to speed if they're just going to leave?
- eyelidlessness 5y ago
  Well, I think other people hire them because there’s high demand for talent and that kind of churn is expected. If you’re not having difficulty hiring while rejecting those candidates, that suggests you’re probably attracting people like me who stick around longer (for better or worse all around) or something about your offer is appealing to talent who have a knack for finding good long term opportunities.
- inopinatus 5y ago
  Because maybe they’re just looking for the right environment, and maybe you’re it. Hiring is like dating, after all. This reads instead like an egregious case of the fundamental attribution error, and one that’d I’d view as quite the blunder by my management team, since the real consequence is limiting our access to the talent pool. Even aside from the FAE, this kind of attitude also systematically reinforces structural discrimination within an industry, since candidates from unusual or unprivileged backgrounds are less likely to have been offered major career opportunities, or been obliged to juggle many life priorities along the way, and thereby more likely to have taken whatever they could get, or could realistically manage. Yet these can be some of the most interesting hires, thanks to their diverse/alternative perspectives, and may also be top-tier outliers when it comes to resilience, self-management, and self-directed learning. It’s also a failure of values since there’s an underlying assumption that people are interchangeable widgets, which is both false and dehumanising. For my own account, I hopped a lot in my early career before finding places where I felt I could belong and stay for years, and this pattern has repeated. So you’d likely have taken a pass on me whilst I went on to become senior this and principal that elsewhere, en route to starting my own firm. Go figure.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    > Hiring is like dating, after all. Past behavior is a pretty good predictor of future behavior. If you're dating someone whose previous 3 spouses died in mysterious kiln explosions, I'd stay away from the ceramics factory.
s1artibartfast 5y ago
In my experience, it is hard to tell the difference between someone who killed it at a job for 1 year and moved on from someone who couldn't hack it and moved on. Promotion at a company signifies that they were well received and able to adapt and meet milestones. Same job title in and out reads to me to believe that they couldn't hack it and were no goes development opportunity. IMHO, a promotion before you leave confer s legitamacy to your tenure.
- HaNeThrowAway 5y ago
  What if there are no promotions to be had? My longest tenure at any one company was 8 years and I never got promoted because it was all remote and I was technically an independent contractor. No one got promoted.
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    I am not saying it is a perfect system, but that would a red flag for a full time employee.

mylons 5y ago

ok boomer. i’ve been on interview panels at several companies due to hopping. someone on the panel will mention it, someone else who wants to hire them will say it’s not a big deal and go from there.

ddelt 5y ago

I’m sorry but I very much disagree. Each hop netted me much better work-life balance and much higher pay, and actually broadened my horizons and whag I bring to the table because I have experienced a wide array of corporate cultures and team styles. What DOESN’T do wonders for your career is thinking/hoping/praying that sticking it out at a subpar company year after year will magically bring you those same benefits, if it’s not already happening and you’ve already asked politely for it to be resolved.