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Can we also offer tax credits to encourage making the next hardware innovation hub somewhere other than Phoenix, Arizona? I thought the southwest is being ravag

Can we also offer tax credits to encourage making the next hardware innovation hub somewhere other than Phoenix, Arizona? I thought the southwest is being ravaged by the effects of climate change (120+ degree weather, massive droughts)

bgorman 5y ago
The water used by a chip factory is almost 100% recycled
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- KingMachiavelli 5y ago
  So they would be OK paying a 10x price premium? at least that would be the easiest way to determine if the claim is true. At least in Taiwan earlier this spring was facing a drought which came close to impacting semiconductor production.
- farco12 5y ago
  Do you mind providing a source for that claim? I've seen several articles[1] mentioning that the current Taiwanese semiconductor shortage has a lot to do with water rationing due to drought. Do semiconductor manufacturers in Taiwan not recycle water like semiconductor manufacturers in Phoenix? [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-chip-shortage-is-bad-taiwans-drought-threatens-to-make-it-worse-11618565400 https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-chip-shortage-is-bad-taiwan...
  - BlueTankEngine 5y ago
    Pretty sure the OP is right, not sure about Taiwan Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/04/why-intel-tsmc-are https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/04/why-intel-tsmc-are -building-water-dependent-chip-plants-in-arizona.html
    - pretendscholar 5y ago
      It says page not found.
      - bellyfullofbac 5y ago
        You should notice that the text after the URL still looks like a URL, so there must've been an extra space in the middle of it... Feel free to burn this comment to the ground, but is this really the level of HN reader nowadays? Can't even notice a spurious space...
  - franknine 5y ago
    Semiconductor manufacturers in Taiwan are mostly around the Hsinchu area. They paid a premium to truck water from other areas and the government limited agricultural activities in Hsinchu as well. They almost got affected, but then there was a heavy rain in late May and the water rationing was lifted for Hsinchu. Currently COVID poses a larger threat to semiconductor production as multiple COVID clusters are detected in packaging/testing plants.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
bpodgursky 5y ago
That requires individual states to be tax and business friendly. The Northeast and Pacific rim no longer make any attempt at this. The rust belt tries sometimes, but flip politically too often for companies to make big investments. There's nothing meaningful congress can do to order states to be friendly to business.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  That depends on your definition of tax and business friendly. Note that the Northeast and Pacific Rim have produced far more success and wealth in business than other places, probably more than any places in the history of the world, without exaggeration. Taxes are the front end transaction of investment, in education, infrastructure, courts, support for workers and families, etc. Those things are very business friendly. Low tax areas, which lack this investment, don't have a great history with businesses.
GoOnThenDoTell 5y ago
Seismic stability is apparently a big plus for the area
andrewmcwatters 5y ago
We might be on fire, but doing business here is excellent. I'm fine being quoted on that. It's just about a joke anywhere else I've seen. Such as annual fees just to maintain an LLC. As if you're not already paying a high effective tax rate. The cost of living and cost of doing business doesn't make much sense in other major metros. Unfortunately, so many people are coming here that it's raising our COL, too.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  > It's just about a joke anywhere else I've seen. Wow, you encompass a lot of very successful communities and businesses with that statement. > Such as annual fees just to maintain an LLC. I don't know what you mean exactly, but I've never heard a businessperson complain about such fees.
  - andrewmcwatters 5y ago
    Well, hello then. Here I am, complaining. Operating costs for a business to simply exist should be nothing. Free. Nada. It should cost 0 for some database entry to exist in a corporation directory. Oh, and if you're interested in that, welcome to Arizona. You're already paying taxes. You're already paying insurance. You're already taking on risk. There should be absolutely no friction to take on risk and start an enterprise. Leave that friction to all the other places that make sense like taking out a loan, building your brand, establishing a network. And yet, if you wanted to expand to other countries, you have to pay sometimes thousands of dollars annually just to exist as a foreign corporate entity. It's nonsense. It's just a money grab for certain regions. As if you paying those contractors or employees isn't directly injecting capital into those economies.
    - CameronNemo 5y ago
      If you can't scrounge up a few hundred to register an LLC ($140 in Washington from what I read), how the hell are you going to order any kind of computer hardware? Prototypes can cost thousands.
gremloni 5y ago
What’s wrong with 120+ degree weather? It’s fantastic in my opinion.

bgorman 5y ago

The water used by a chip factory is almost 100% recycled

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
KingMachiavelli 5y ago
So they would be OK paying a 10x price premium? at least that would be the easiest way to determine if the claim is true. At least in Taiwan earlier this spring was facing a drought which came close to impacting semiconductor production.
farco12 5y ago
Do you mind providing a source for that claim? I've seen several articles[1] mentioning that the current Taiwanese semiconductor shortage has a lot to do with water rationing due to drought. Do semiconductor manufacturers in Taiwan not recycle water like semiconductor manufacturers in Phoenix? [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-chip-shortage-is-bad-taiwans-drought-threatens-to-make-it-worse-11618565400 https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-chip-shortage-is-bad-taiwan...
- BlueTankEngine 5y ago
  Pretty sure the OP is right, not sure about Taiwan Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/04/why-intel-tsmc-are https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/04/why-intel-tsmc-are -building-water-dependent-chip-plants-in-arizona.html
  - pretendscholar 5y ago
    It says page not found.
    - bellyfullofbac 5y ago
      You should notice that the text after the URL still looks like a URL, so there must've been an extra space in the middle of it... Feel free to burn this comment to the ground, but is this really the level of HN reader nowadays? Can't even notice a spurious space...
- franknine 5y ago
  Semiconductor manufacturers in Taiwan are mostly around the Hsinchu area. They paid a premium to truck water from other areas and the government limited agricultural activities in Hsinchu as well. They almost got affected, but then there was a heavy rain in late May and the water rationing was lifted for Hsinchu. Currently COVID poses a larger threat to semiconductor production as multiple COVID clusters are detected in packaging/testing plants.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

bpodgursky 5y ago

That requires individual states to be tax and business friendly. The Northeast and Pacific rim no longer make any attempt at this. The rust belt tries sometimes, but flip politically too often for companies to make big investments. There's nothing meaningful congress can do to order states to be friendly to business.

wolverine876 5y ago
That depends on your definition of tax and business friendly. Note that the Northeast and Pacific Rim have produced far more success and wealth in business than other places, probably more than any places in the history of the world, without exaggeration. Taxes are the front end transaction of investment, in education, infrastructure, courts, support for workers and families, etc. Those things are very business friendly. Low tax areas, which lack this investment, don't have a great history with businesses.

GoOnThenDoTell 5y ago

Seismic stability is apparently a big plus for the area

andrewmcwatters 5y ago

We might be on fire, but doing business here is excellent. I'm fine being quoted on that. It's just about a joke anywhere else I've seen. Such as annual fees just to maintain an LLC. As if you're not already paying a high effective tax rate. The cost of living and cost of doing business doesn't make much sense in other major metros. Unfortunately, so many people are coming here that it's raising our COL, too.

wolverine876 5y ago
> It's just about a joke anywhere else I've seen. Wow, you encompass a lot of very successful communities and businesses with that statement. > Such as annual fees just to maintain an LLC. I don't know what you mean exactly, but I've never heard a businessperson complain about such fees.
- andrewmcwatters 5y ago
  Well, hello then. Here I am, complaining. Operating costs for a business to simply exist should be nothing. Free. Nada. It should cost 0 for some database entry to exist in a corporation directory. Oh, and if you're interested in that, welcome to Arizona. You're already paying taxes. You're already paying insurance. You're already taking on risk. There should be absolutely no friction to take on risk and start an enterprise. Leave that friction to all the other places that make sense like taking out a loan, building your brand, establishing a network. And yet, if you wanted to expand to other countries, you have to pay sometimes thousands of dollars annually just to exist as a foreign corporate entity. It's nonsense. It's just a money grab for certain regions. As if you paying those contractors or employees isn't directly injecting capital into those economies.
  - CameronNemo 5y ago
    If you can't scrounge up a few hundred to register an LLC ($140 in Washington from what I read), how the hell are you going to order any kind of computer hardware? Prototypes can cost thousands.

gremloni 5y ago

What’s wrong with 120+ degree weather? It’s fantastic in my opinion.