5 ms·

My first thought: wow, the US is crazy, I’m glad they don’t have this in the UK! Then I remembered that I was at a famous boarding school for five years, the mo

by dash2 5y ago

My first thought: wow, the US is crazy, I’m glad they don’t have this in the UK! Then I remembered that I was at a famous boarding school for five years, the most miserable years of my life. Thirty years later I’m still coping with the aftereffects. I think of that place as a form of institutionalised child abuse, and frankly if someone pipebombed it, I would not shed a tear. One simple thing: it wasn’t authoritarian adults or teachers. If anything, they were AWOL. It was the students that really made each other’s life hell. Of course, we were teenagers. Much later, I stopped blaming the individuals and started blaming the institution. Here’s a tiny anecdote. One guy, who I think was genuinely evil, took psychology as a minor subject. As an experiment, he decided to drive another, younger, vulnerable pupil mad. Gaslighting him, messing with his head, that kind of stuff. And he succeeded!

Clewza313 5y ago
Brutal reform schools/camps can be found anywhere. Here's one in Japan whose headmaster was convicted of beating two students to death: https://www.csmonitor.com/1999/0218/p12s1.html https://www.csmonitor.com/1999/0218/p12s1.html
- kowlo 5y ago
  So many distractions https://ibb.co/Xby2rKC https://ibb.co/Xby2rKC
lordnacho 5y ago
Which school? Seems to me uk boarding schools have changed a lot recently, with a lot of emphasis on pastoral care.
- dash2 5y ago
  I hope so.
dang 5y ago
Your comment reminds me of Robyn Hitchcock's classic line about English boarding schools: "they fuck with your mind forever, then send you out to run the country".
- ChrisKnott 5y ago
  Reminded me of Orwell's account of his education (Such, Such Were The Joys) which contains one of my favourite quotes ("It was not only money that mattered: there were also strength, beauty, charm, athleticism and something called ‘guts’ or ‘character’, which in reality meant the power to impose your will on others."). https://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/joys/english/e_joys https://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/joys/english/e_joys
  - dang 5y ago
    Orwell famously had a nostalgic and even sentimental view of his days at Eton. This doesn't much fit with the rest of his character and his great capacity not to be sentimental, but he was complicated. Robyn Hitchcock's view of the school he was sent to (I think Winchester) is stark and miserable and it seems clear that it was a hard experience for him. He tells a story somewhere of not being allowed to leave the school to go to his grandmother's funeral, who was the one person he had really been close to. So he went to some kind of art happening organized by Brian Eno, of all people, and released a balloon with her name on it instead.
simonbarker87 5y ago
Sorry to hear you went through that. I went to a UK military boarding school (by choice) for A-levels and I agree with the above, in our case the issues were always caused by student on student. There was stories of what it used to be like “in the old days” and how the college was softer now and would produce weaker officers in the long run. I have no idea if it was true or just internal rumours but the leadership at the time was very focussed on pastoral care, academic excellence and ingraining the foundations of leadership and integrity with (looking back) not that much military-ness to it. I look back with very fond memories, it was tough but not in a nasty way, more just a “high expectations and packed schedule” way. I was the last year to be Army only, after that they opened it up to all three military services and civil service along with moving to a new purpose build facility - leaving behind the old abbey it had been based at for 50 years. I imagine that that cleared out any remaining vestiges of a less pleasant past.
Boomerchick 5y ago
> One guy, who I think was genuinely evil, took psychology as a minor subject. He is very determined.
captain_price7 5y ago
We have something called Cadet College here in Bangladesh (grade 7-12), and British public schools were I think the primary inspiration behind them (actually first few principals were all British). It was just as brutal as you say, if not more. But the attitude of "ex-cadets" here is that of extreme pride, many consider it to be the best 6 years of their life. And this feeling is almost universal. I have now several times come across criticism of British public schools by their own alumni, I wonder why there's so much difference in attitude.
- nyolfen 5y ago
  it reminds me of an episode of a podcast i was listening to recently about somebody who grew up in a tough area with other people who experienced violence and difficult circumstances, and while there he had no emotional issues and simply pushed everything down; but once he moved to a 'nice' (american middle class) college and people heard about what he had experienced and felt sorry for him, he suddenly developed symptoms of ptsd. i think our individual response to circumstances can largely be shaped by what is normal around us.
madaxe_again 5y ago
I absolutely empathise, as a fellow survivor of a ridiculously expensive prison. I boarded from six until seventeen, when I finally finished and got the hell out of dodge. My sister, who attended the same secondary school as me, and had previously been at a coddled US private day school, was almost ruined by her experiences. Over a decade of therapy later, and she’s beginning to live. Throughout, it was (often school-endorsed) tribal warfare and arbitrary justice at the hands of masters and prefects. Eat or be eaten. It churned out future politicians. We had literal knife-fights in the dormitories. It was normal to drag someone out of bed at 3am and beat the shit out of them with doorknobs. My dorm-mates, aged 14, kept a friend of mine cocooned in duct tape, upside down in a wardrobe, for an entire school day. I found him that evening during prep, and took a cricket bat to the ringleader. The poor bastard got detention and satisfecit for jocking classes. I was suspended. I once had septicaemia from an infected wound, and the matron’s response was to fling a mop at me as I lay on the kitchen floor in a puddle of pus and blood while telling me to “clean up your fucking mess”. I blacked out at that point, and the aforementioned friend saved my life by calling an ambulance - I awoke in hospital weeks later. She was actually, unbelievably, fired over the incident. So much of my behaviour, two decades on, is still driven by my experiences there, and the same applies to those few of my cohort I’m in touch with or aware of the fates of. Constant paranoia that you’re going to be double-crossed or arbitrarily beaten, a complete lack of faith in institutions of any variety, and bitterness and contempt for those who did this to me (my parents, the bastards that ran the schools (some of whom are now gratifyingly in prison)). They should be illegal.
- anchpop 5y ago
  that’s insane, what causes people to act like that I wonder? do they have no compassion?
  - madaxe_again 5y ago
    Institutionalisation. Everything is somebody else’s responsibility, and everything becomes about the metagame - working systems to your advantage, being the biggest asshole in the house and getting made prefect for it. Amongst students, it was all about social standing. Think prison gangs, but with posh British kids. Amongst staff, there were plenty who were good people, but also plenty who were there on a sinecure and were essentially untouchable.
cdstyh 5y ago
This video is incredibly hard to watch. I wonder what kind of abuse goes on today. https://youtube.com/watch?v=l-1Made2BVk https://youtube.com/watch?v=l-1Made2BVk It often gets taking down in the UK. You can search for Phoenix and aria abuse.
bjornsing 5y ago
> One guy, who I think was genuinely evil, took psychology as a minor subject. As an experiment, he decided to drive another, younger, vulnerable pupil mad. Gaslighting him, messing with his head, that kind of stuff. And he succeeded! I’ve seen grownups engage in this kind of abuse too. It’s incredibly disturbing, almost a legal (or very hard to prove) kind of homicide... But what can you do about it, other than try to encourage the victim to distance themselves from the abuser? There’s a lot of room for plausible deniability, and any attempt to prove it will look a lot like the ramblings of a mad man...
- ganzuul 5y ago
  You don't have to prove it but you do have to stand up for the victim. Otherwise you enable the abuse. You would be surprised how often people react positively when you stand up for someone.
  - bjornsing 5y ago
    Sure, I did, and do. But it’s a surprisingly difficult social balancing act: if you go into specifics and try to prove / point out the abuse it’s very easy for the abuser to make you too look like a rambling madman. I’m also chocked by how many do not stand up for the victim / truth, even when the abuser is clearly exposed as a lier many people (with social incentives to do so) will just say “well, I didn’t see that” or similar. A disturbing aspect of it is that I can’t tell if those people are consciously laying, or just in denial on a deeper psychological level... Scary shit.

by dash2 5y ago

Clewza313 5y ago

Brutal reform schools/camps can be found anywhere. Here's one in Japan whose headmaster was convicted of beating two students to death: https://www.csmonitor.com/1999/0218/p12s1.html https://www.csmonitor.com/1999/0218/p12s1.html

kowlo 5y ago
So many distractions https://ibb.co/Xby2rKC https://ibb.co/Xby2rKC

lordnacho 5y ago

Which school? Seems to me uk boarding schools have changed a lot recently, with a lot of emphasis on pastoral care.

dash2 5y ago
I hope so.

dang 5y ago

Your comment reminds me of Robyn Hitchcock's classic line about English boarding schools: "they fuck with your mind forever, then send you out to run the country".

ChrisKnott 5y ago
Reminded me of Orwell's account of his education (Such, Such Were The Joys) which contains one of my favourite quotes ("It was not only money that mattered: there were also strength, beauty, charm, athleticism and something called ‘guts’ or ‘character’, which in reality meant the power to impose your will on others."). https://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/joys/english/e_joys https://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/joys/english/e_joys
- dang 5y ago
  Orwell famously had a nostalgic and even sentimental view of his days at Eton. This doesn't much fit with the rest of his character and his great capacity not to be sentimental, but he was complicated. Robyn Hitchcock's view of the school he was sent to (I think Winchester) is stark and miserable and it seems clear that it was a hard experience for him. He tells a story somewhere of not being allowed to leave the school to go to his grandmother's funeral, who was the one person he had really been close to. So he went to some kind of art happening organized by Brian Eno, of all people, and released a balloon with her name on it instead.

simonbarker87 5y ago

Sorry to hear you went through that. I went to a UK military boarding school (by choice) for A-levels and I agree with the above, in our case the issues were always caused by student on student. There was stories of what it used to be like “in the old days” and how the college was softer now and would produce weaker officers in the long run. I have no idea if it was true or just internal rumours but the leadership at the time was very focussed on pastoral care, academic excellence and ingraining the foundations of leadership and integrity with (looking back) not that much military-ness to it. I look back with very fond memories, it was tough but not in a nasty way, more just a “high expectations and packed schedule” way. I was the last year to be Army only, after that they opened it up to all three military services and civil service along with moving to a new purpose build facility - leaving behind the old abbey it had been based at for 50 years. I imagine that that cleared out any remaining vestiges of a less pleasant past.

Boomerchick 5y ago

> One guy, who I think was genuinely evil, took psychology as a minor subject. He is very determined.

captain_price7 5y ago

We have something called Cadet College here in Bangladesh (grade 7-12), and British public schools were I think the primary inspiration behind them (actually first few principals were all British). It was just as brutal as you say, if not more. But the attitude of "ex-cadets" here is that of extreme pride, many consider it to be the best 6 years of their life. And this feeling is almost universal. I have now several times come across criticism of British public schools by their own alumni, I wonder why there's so much difference in attitude.

nyolfen 5y ago
it reminds me of an episode of a podcast i was listening to recently about somebody who grew up in a tough area with other people who experienced violence and difficult circumstances, and while there he had no emotional issues and simply pushed everything down; but once he moved to a 'nice' (american middle class) college and people heard about what he had experienced and felt sorry for him, he suddenly developed symptoms of ptsd. i think our individual response to circumstances can largely be shaped by what is normal around us.

madaxe_again 5y ago

I absolutely empathise, as a fellow survivor of a ridiculously expensive prison. I boarded from six until seventeen, when I finally finished and got the hell out of dodge. My sister, who attended the same secondary school as me, and had previously been at a coddled US private day school, was almost ruined by her experiences. Over a decade of therapy later, and she’s beginning to live. Throughout, it was (often school-endorsed) tribal warfare and arbitrary justice at the hands of masters and prefects. Eat or be eaten. It churned out future politicians. We had literal knife-fights in the dormitories. It was normal to drag someone out of bed at 3am and beat the shit out of them with doorknobs. My dorm-mates, aged 14, kept a friend of mine cocooned in duct tape, upside down in a wardrobe, for an entire school day. I found him that evening during prep, and took a cricket bat to the ringleader. The poor bastard got detention and satisfecit for jocking classes. I was suspended. I once had septicaemia from an infected wound, and the matron’s response was to fling a mop at me as I lay on the kitchen floor in a puddle of pus and blood while telling me to “clean up your fucking mess”. I blacked out at that point, and the aforementioned friend saved my life by calling an ambulance - I awoke in hospital weeks later. She was actually, unbelievably, fired over the incident. So much of my behaviour, two decades on, is still driven by my experiences there, and the same applies to those few of my cohort I’m in touch with or aware of the fates of. Constant paranoia that you’re going to be double-crossed or arbitrarily beaten, a complete lack of faith in institutions of any variety, and bitterness and contempt for those who did this to me (my parents, the bastards that ran the schools (some of whom are now gratifyingly in prison)). They should be illegal.

anchpop 5y ago
that’s insane, what causes people to act like that I wonder? do they have no compassion?
- madaxe_again 5y ago
  Institutionalisation. Everything is somebody else’s responsibility, and everything becomes about the metagame - working systems to your advantage, being the biggest asshole in the house and getting made prefect for it. Amongst students, it was all about social standing. Think prison gangs, but with posh British kids. Amongst staff, there were plenty who were good people, but also plenty who were there on a sinecure and were essentially untouchable.

cdstyh 5y ago

This video is incredibly hard to watch. I wonder what kind of abuse goes on today. https://youtube.com/watch?v=l-1Made2BVk https://youtube.com/watch?v=l-1Made2BVk It often gets taking down in the UK. You can search for Phoenix and aria abuse.

bjornsing 5y ago

> One guy, who I think was genuinely evil, took psychology as a minor subject. As an experiment, he decided to drive another, younger, vulnerable pupil mad. Gaslighting him, messing with his head, that kind of stuff. And he succeeded! I’ve seen grownups engage in this kind of abuse too. It’s incredibly disturbing, almost a legal (or very hard to prove) kind of homicide... But what can you do about it, other than try to encourage the victim to distance themselves from the abuser? There’s a lot of room for plausible deniability, and any attempt to prove it will look a lot like the ramblings of a mad man...

ganzuul 5y ago
You don't have to prove it but you do have to stand up for the victim. Otherwise you enable the abuse. You would be surprised how often people react positively when you stand up for someone.
- bjornsing 5y ago
  Sure, I did, and do. But it’s a surprisingly difficult social balancing act: if you go into specifics and try to prove / point out the abuse it’s very easy for the abuser to make you too look like a rambling madman. I’m also chocked by how many do not stand up for the victim / truth, even when the abuser is clearly exposed as a lier many people (with social incentives to do so) will just say “well, I didn’t see that” or similar. A disturbing aspect of it is that I can’t tell if those people are consciously laying, or just in denial on a deeper psychological level... Scary shit.