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your comment is contradictory - if there is no political content, what propaganda is there to distribute? per your own comment wouldn't they just be distributin

your comment is contradictory - if there is no political content, what propaganda is there to distribute? per your own comment wouldn't they just be distributing the "catchy" content?

xvector 5y ago
There isn't propaganda. I guess people say there is, because conspiracy theories are more fun than fact. But strong statements like "TikTok is propaganda" need to be supported with evidence. I would say that the highly tailored experience of the TikTok algorithm would make a propaganda op quite easy to detect. The algorithm is so ridiculously good, that you would instantly spot a propaganda video, or notice when your feed begins to skew from what you like to see.
- karaterobot 5y ago
  Wasn't there something about how you couldn't find TikTok videos about the Hong Kong protests? Ahh, so the Guardian had some leaked moderation documents[1] implying there was an active moderation keeping them from being viewed. Buzzfeed said they did their own experiments and found no evidence that videos about Hong Kong were being removed[2]. I see no reason why both of those can't be true: if you control the algorithm, you don't need to delete anything, you can control with fine granularity how viral it's allowed to go. I guess that's a conspiracy theory, but for myself, I'm very skeptical that any media company operates in China with what most of us would call political neutrality and free speech. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/25/revealed-how-tiktok-censors-videos-that-do-not-please-beijing https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/25/revealed-... [2] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanhatesthis/tiktok-users-are-finally-posting-about-hong-kong-but-only https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanhatesthis/tiktok-us...
  - xvector 5y ago
    I think it's much more likely that such videos don't rise to the top because it's not what TikTok's audience cares to engage with. I honestly don't know anyone that actually wants to see political content on TikTok (though, if you seek it out, you will find it.) It's simply not what the platform is for.
    - pope_meat 5y ago
      That's a very naive perspective, in my opinion. I wouldn't put it past tech giants in democratic nations not to tweak their algorithms to push their own political agenda, much less tech giants in non democratic nations. It's too powerful a tool not to abuse, I know it, and you know it too.
- gruez 5y ago
  >The algorithm is so ridiculously good, that you would instantly spot a propaganda video, or notice when your feed begins to skew from what you like to see. Would you notice it if they slowly ramped it up? How would you know whether it's grassroots or planted by the CCP?
  - xvector 5y ago
    Yes, I think it would be absurdly easy to notice, because nothing in most people's feeds is remotely political. How exactly would you propagandize a stream of improv skits, or dance videos, or pet videos? Every user's feed is extremely specific and deviations, even small ones, are easy to notice.
- est 5y ago
  > There isn't propaganda There is. Tiktok China also got rid of all the political content because of the superior censorship algorithms.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- jollybean 5y ago
  Many months ago I saw some Toks which had 'Huge Red Flags' - basically Chinese Nationals trying to convince of some obvious CCP policy - though I couldn't tell for sure if it was propaganda, it seemed like it. But haven't seen that in months. But otherwise I don't think they promote propaganda actively. But the difference between FB/Twitter and TT is the kinds of suppression they do. TT will remove anything that might remotely offend the sensibilities of the CCP.
Spivak 5y ago
If you don't interact with political content you will never see it. But if you do you'll see a lot more of it. TikTok basically has auto-subreddits that are crazy specific because of its discovery algorithm.
belval 5y ago
There is no political content right now, my point is that in case of escalating conflict or proxy-conflict with China they could absolutely run disinformation through this channel in a way that is somewhat transparent to their users to spark anti-war counter-movements in the US.
- xvector 5y ago
  This is a far-fetched concern. Realistically speaking, the platform would just get permanently banned if it was being used to spread propaganda in a manner that harms a wartime effort. Otherwise, I just don't see China risking one of the most promising gems to have come out of its internet technology industry in a long time.
  - disgruntledphd2 5y ago
    The funny thing about TikTok/ByteDance is actually that the Chinese government didn't really care about them until Trump was against them. Like, by Chinese standards Douyin is smaller than the companies that the CCP do care about.
- poisonarena 5y ago
  there is definately political content, half of my feed became radicalized living in israel during the last conflict
Nullabillity 5y ago
Silencing political content is inherently propagating the status quo.
- rcpt 5y ago
  Yeah. My understanding of Chinese internet is that it's 99% fluff or celebrity news and other inconsequential things mixed with a bit of CCP approved nationalism

your comment is contradictory - if there is no political content, what propaganda is there to distribute? per your own comment wouldn't they just be distributing the "catchy" content?

xvector 5y ago

There isn't propaganda. I guess people say there is, because conspiracy theories are more fun than fact. But strong statements like "TikTok is propaganda" need to be supported with evidence. I would say that the highly tailored experience of the TikTok algorithm would make a propaganda op quite easy to detect. The algorithm is so ridiculously good, that you would instantly spot a propaganda video, or notice when your feed begins to skew from what you like to see.

karaterobot 5y ago
Wasn't there something about how you couldn't find TikTok videos about the Hong Kong protests? Ahh, so the Guardian had some leaked moderation documents[1] implying there was an active moderation keeping them from being viewed. Buzzfeed said they did their own experiments and found no evidence that videos about Hong Kong were being removed[2]. I see no reason why both of those can't be true: if you control the algorithm, you don't need to delete anything, you can control with fine granularity how viral it's allowed to go. I guess that's a conspiracy theory, but for myself, I'm very skeptical that any media company operates in China with what most of us would call political neutrality and free speech. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/25/revealed-how-tiktok-censors-videos-that-do-not-please-beijing https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/25/revealed-... [2] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanhatesthis/tiktok-users-are-finally-posting-about-hong-kong-but-only https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanhatesthis/tiktok-us...
- xvector 5y ago
  I think it's much more likely that such videos don't rise to the top because it's not what TikTok's audience cares to engage with. I honestly don't know anyone that actually wants to see political content on TikTok (though, if you seek it out, you will find it.) It's simply not what the platform is for.
  - pope_meat 5y ago
    That's a very naive perspective, in my opinion. I wouldn't put it past tech giants in democratic nations not to tweak their algorithms to push their own political agenda, much less tech giants in non democratic nations. It's too powerful a tool not to abuse, I know it, and you know it too.
gruez 5y ago
>The algorithm is so ridiculously good, that you would instantly spot a propaganda video, or notice when your feed begins to skew from what you like to see. Would you notice it if they slowly ramped it up? How would you know whether it's grassroots or planted by the CCP?
- xvector 5y ago
  Yes, I think it would be absurdly easy to notice, because nothing in most people's feeds is remotely political. How exactly would you propagandize a stream of improv skits, or dance videos, or pet videos? Every user's feed is extremely specific and deviations, even small ones, are easy to notice.
est 5y ago
> There isn't propaganda There is. Tiktok China also got rid of all the political content because of the superior censorship algorithms.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
jollybean 5y ago
Many months ago I saw some Toks which had 'Huge Red Flags' - basically Chinese Nationals trying to convince of some obvious CCP policy - though I couldn't tell for sure if it was propaganda, it seemed like it. But haven't seen that in months. But otherwise I don't think they promote propaganda actively. But the difference between FB/Twitter and TT is the kinds of suppression they do. TT will remove anything that might remotely offend the sensibilities of the CCP.

Spivak 5y ago

If you don't interact with political content you will never see it. But if you do you'll see a lot more of it. TikTok basically has auto-subreddits that are crazy specific because of its discovery algorithm.

belval 5y ago

There is no political content right now, my point is that in case of escalating conflict or proxy-conflict with China they could absolutely run disinformation through this channel in a way that is somewhat transparent to their users to spark anti-war counter-movements in the US.

xvector 5y ago
This is a far-fetched concern. Realistically speaking, the platform would just get permanently banned if it was being used to spread propaganda in a manner that harms a wartime effort. Otherwise, I just don't see China risking one of the most promising gems to have come out of its internet technology industry in a long time.
- disgruntledphd2 5y ago
  The funny thing about TikTok/ByteDance is actually that the Chinese government didn't really care about them until Trump was against them. Like, by Chinese standards Douyin is smaller than the companies that the CCP do care about.
poisonarena 5y ago
there is definately political content, half of my feed became radicalized living in israel during the last conflict

Nullabillity 5y ago

Silencing political content is inherently propagating the status quo.

rcpt 5y ago
Yeah. My understanding of Chinese internet is that it's 99% fluff or celebrity news and other inconsequential things mixed with a bit of CCP approved nationalism