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I hate TikTok because it's so good. It's a frictionless content pump that we can open and doom-scroll for hours. I have never seen such a beautifully crafted us
by belval 5y ago
I hate TikTok because it's so good. It's a frictionless content pump that we can open and doom-scroll for hours. I have never seen such a beautifully crafted user experience, from the recommendation algorithm that is top-notch the content that is catchy and highlights trends without overdoing it and the absence of political content if you don't engage with it (or maybe there is none at all).
I don't have it on my phone, but I truly see it as the pinnacle of the stupidly addictive social media app and it scares me because it means that Chinese companies are just as capable as us to spin the next Facebook and distribute propaganda to the next generation.
- endisneigh 5y agoyour comment is contradictory - if there is no political content, what propaganda is there to distribute? per your own comment wouldn't they just be distributing the "catchy" content?
- xvector 5y agoThere isn't propaganda. I guess people say there is, because conspiracy theories are more fun than fact. But strong statements like "TikTok is propaganda" need to be supported with evidence. I would say that the highly tailored experience of the TikTok algorithm would make a propaganda op quite easy to detect. The algorithm is so ridiculously good, that you would instantly spot a propaganda video, or notice when your feed begins to skew from what you like to see.
- karaterobot 5y agoWasn't there something about how you couldn't find TikTok videos about the Hong Kong protests? Ahh, so the Guardian had some leaked moderation documents[1] implying there was an active moderation keeping them from being viewed. Buzzfeed said they did their own experiments and found no evidence that videos about Hong Kong were being removed[2]. I see no reason why both of those can't be true: if you control the algorithm, you don't need to delete anything, you can control with fine granularity how viral it's allowed to go. I guess that's a conspiracy theory, but for myself, I'm very skeptical that any media company operates in China with what most of us would call political neutrality and free speech. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/25/revealed-how-tiktok-censors-videos-that-do-not-please-beijing https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/25/revealed-... [2] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanhatesthis/tiktok-users-are-finally-posting-about-hong-kong-but-only https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanhatesthis/tiktok-us...
- xvector 5y agoI think it's much more likely that such videos don't rise to the top because it's not what TikTok's audience cares to engage with. I honestly don't know anyone that actually wants to see political content on TikTok (though, if you seek it out, you will find it.) It's simply not what the platform is for.
- pope_meat 5y agoThat's a very naive perspective, in my opinion. I wouldn't put it past tech giants in democratic nations not to tweak their algorithms to push their own political agenda, much less tech giants in non democratic nations. It's too powerful a tool not to abuse, I know it, and you know it too.
- gruez 5y ago>The algorithm is so ridiculously good, that you would instantly spot a propaganda video, or notice when your feed begins to skew from what you like to see. Would you notice it if they slowly ramped it up? How would you know whether it's grassroots or planted by the CCP?
- xvector 5y agoYes, I think it would be absurdly easy to notice, because nothing in most people's feeds is remotely political. How exactly would you propagandize a stream of improv skits, or dance videos, or pet videos? Every user's feed is extremely specific and deviations, even small ones, are easy to notice.
- est 5y ago> There isn't propaganda There is. Tiktok China also got rid of all the political content because of the superior censorship algorithms.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- jollybean 5y agoMany months ago I saw some Toks which had 'Huge Red Flags' - basically Chinese Nationals trying to convince of some obvious CCP policy - though I couldn't tell for sure if it was propaganda, it seemed like it. But haven't seen that in months. But otherwise I don't think they promote propaganda actively. But the difference between FB/Twitter and TT is the kinds of suppression they do. TT will remove anything that might remotely offend the sensibilities of the CCP.
- Spivak 5y agoIf you don't interact with political content you will never see it. But if you do you'll see a lot more of it. TikTok basically has auto-subreddits that are crazy specific because of its discovery algorithm.
- belval 5y agoThere is no political content right now, my point is that in case of escalating conflict or proxy-conflict with China they could absolutely run disinformation through this channel in a way that is somewhat transparent to their users to spark anti-war counter-movements in the US.
- xvector 5y agoThis is a far-fetched concern. Realistically speaking, the platform would just get permanently banned if it was being used to spread propaganda in a manner that harms a wartime effort. Otherwise, I just don't see China risking one of the most promising gems to have come out of its internet technology industry in a long time.
- disgruntledphd2 5y agoThe funny thing about TikTok/ByteDance is actually that the Chinese government didn't really care about them until Trump was against them. Like, by Chinese standards Douyin is smaller than the companies that the CCP do care about.
- poisonarena 5y agothere is definately political content, half of my feed became radicalized living in israel during the last conflict
- Nullabillity 5y agoSilencing political content is inherently propagating the status quo.
- rcpt 5y agoYeah. My understanding of Chinese internet is that it's 99% fluff or celebrity news and other inconsequential things mixed with a bit of CCP approved nationalism
- curiousllama 5y agoI've decided to outsource dopamine production to The Chinese Algorithm and honestly it's going great
- xvector 5y agoI love how positive and fun the content on TikTok is. It really is a breath of fresh air, never fails to bring a smile to my face.
- dnh44 5y agoStar Trek TNG basically predicted this in 1991 in the episode The Game. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_%28Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_%28Star_Trek:_The_Nex...
- artificial 5y agoThey collect biometric data now, faceprints and voiceprints. [0] [0] https://techcrunch.com/2021/06/03/tiktok-just-gave-itself-permission-to-collect-biometric-data-on-u-s-users-including-faceprints-and-voiceprints/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/06/03/tiktok-just-gave-itself-pe...
- pope_meat 5y agoBut the fun app made me look like a kitten, and all it cost me was privacy for the rest of time. Can you say WORTH IT? Heh. Anxiety attack
- weird-eye-issue 5y agoYeah I had to delete it. Something about the fullscreen autoplaying videos is really addicting. And then of course the recommendations are good too and are seamless.
- rvz 5y agoYeah. We said this about Facebook 11 years ago didn't we? Now another one ascends to the throne of the most popular and widely 'used'. So how long until the users get screwed (again)?
- xnx 5y agoI've never found Facebook or Instagram fun, but Tiktok is an absolute delight. The serendipity they put into the recommendations is key.
- rvz 5y agoGiven that there are those calling these social networks highly addictive, catchy and delightful I guess it's safe to say that the drugs are still in effect. Especially when the content and algorithms itself is or can be easily manipulated or gamed. So how long until the users get screwed (once again)?
- xvector 5y agoWho cares? If the platform goes to shit, people will stop using it. In the meantime, it's a breath of fresh air in a stagnant space.
- rvz 5y ago> In the meantime, it's a breath of fresh air in a stagnant space. Exactly. We've been here before haven't we? How many more social networks do you need to join just to say the exact same thing? Of course. You're the one shilling it everywhere on this whole thread, when the news is for early 'investors' preparing for a gigantic IPO for massive returns. That's the news they want to hear. As for the users; well who cares about them, they (Bytedance) don't care about you. As long as you keep generating great shareholder value for them it is another social network with a different internal flavour. Nothing has changed. So I will ask again: How long until the users get screwed (once again)?
- 5y ago
- the-dude 5y agoAnd why is that bad?
- LightG 5y agoI think "doom scroll" is the wrong phrase. I was recommended lighthearted content. But yes, had to delete the thing a year ago to avoid addiction ... a back-handed compliment, I know. Fun, but a complete time-sink ...
- madeofpalk 5y agoTiktok, at least for me, is the complete opposite of doom scrolling.
- MasterScrat 5y agoIt's super interesting to compare it with Facebook's attempt at the same mechanisms with Instagram Reels: - terribly redundant content (as in, I see multiple times the exact same content from different accounts) - content ripped off and reposted from original creators by spam accounts - complete destruction of the original Instagram app to try to force-feed Reels down your throat TikTok looks so simple when you use it because everything just works. Using Reels makes you realise all the ways there are to fuck it up!
- rapsey 5y agoThey are missing the core TikTok feature, content moderation.
- nith3n 5y agoYou should also see the pathetic copycat feature YouTube has created called the shorts. Facebook's attempt with short videos and reels is not much better either. Why does every company feel the urge to copy this and also fail so badly at this
- 1915cb1f 5y agoAre youtube shorts a failure? They seem to be immensely popular in terms of views/engagement. Reminds me of how people would deride Instagram for copying Snapchat stories, yet far more people probably use Instagram stories than snapchat and are perfectly satisfied with the UX despite it being a blatant copycat.
- iotku 5y ago>Are youtube shorts a failure? They seem to be immensely popular in terms of views/engagement. I just think that's only because "the algorithm" prioritizes shorts at the moment to try and push them and make folks even bother making them. Once YouTube starts acting neutral towards them I don't think they'll hold up. I've never come across a short intentionally and after seeing quite a few I haven't tried to find further ones (and outside of mobile it's quite difficult to do so). That said of course, I'm probably not in the demographic shorts plays to either.
- dunningkruger27 5y agoThis is spot on.
- anthony_romeo 5y agoIMO I find the platform to be mentally abusive for me. It's a whirlwind of stirring emotions, shocking content, and 'earworms' everywhere, where memes iteratively compound into their own nonsensical language at a faster rate than on other networks. I'm afraid of observing, say, misconceptions and false math tricks passively on the platform, and accidentally letting them burrow into my brain. There isn't enough time for proper critical thinking on TikTok.
- stevofolife 5y agoYou got it all wrong. You don't use TikTok for critical thinking. This product was never designed to be a critical thinking tool.
- 1_player 5y agoCritical thinking is a muscle. It can get weak and wither away really fast if addictive apps keep you on the dopamine hamster wheel. It doesn't actively make you dumber, you make yourself dumber abusing it, and it's designed specifically for you to abuse it.
- RGamma 5y agoI honestly think TikTok might be a ploy to dumb down/analyze the western population. I find it fantastically stupid. Once I saw the aggressive marketing for it in the play store I knew this was something we now have to deal with. And so we do.
- quenix 5y agoWhy do you find it “fantastically stupid”?
- RGamma 5y agoBecause it feeds mainly endless insubstantialities to its users and encourages others to produce the same. Even if not, its programmers or their bosses determine what millions of users will see (and by extension think), which may change arbitrarily. I know this may be old-school thinking but why can't we reserve the internet to utilities and non-algorithmic spoon-feeding?
- hcarvalhoalves 5y agoHaving people spend their attention span w/ "fun" content – as opposed to political / critical – seems perfect for a dystopian state.
- codetrotter 5y agoMost so called political content is not useful anyways I don’t think. All I see for the most part is people convinced that their view is the right view, and almost no one seems to be trying to find common ground and work out solutions that everyone can be satisfied with. Instead it’s like they think that any inch you “give” is a loss.
- lucasverra 5y agohttps://polemix.io https://polemix.io is a mobile platform that try to find common grounds by allowing "respect" votes that show that you disagree, but still find the idea/content/opinion relevant. Social networks isolate people by only showing them content they agree with. It’s like french kissing yourself in the mirror. We are 9 weeks online and growing with 2k+ users. Would appreciate your intake (invite code LV005). Cheers
- codetrotter 5y agoThanks I will check it out
- belval 5y agoIt's highly debatable that the current twitter mobs are doing anything but alienating the wider population to their cause. Liking or retweeting some police abuse video has about the same impact as liking a picture about famine in Somalia, the dopamine hit is just stronger.
- gerash 5y agoA friend of mine was targeted by a fringe group. They were doxxed along with some stolen private family photos and their real PII circulating around in Twitter with lots of threats from the dumpster fire that are Twitter accounts. It was a traumatizing experience if you're a normal person and not used to this kind of negative attention attached to your real identity. FB takes a lot of heat here vs Twitter perhaps because Zuck seems creepy but Jack Dorsey detoxes for one week in Africa but Instagram were quick to take down those threatening posts with PII but I was told Twitter asked for all sorts of government ID and then auto closed all the cases saying it's all within their terms and conditions. If any social media needs to disappear I think Twitter should be first in line.
- mcintyre1994 5y agoI actually find it less addictive than other feeds - I think it's because I feel less attached to the content (it's either people I don't know or famous people I like) and don't really engage with it beyond sometimes liking things.
- newhotelowner 5y agoIts basically shows similar content to the people that you follow. I started following people from India and it will only show me content from India. I unfollowed everyone, and started following indian people in USA, and it started showing me content from that. I started following people in America, and it started showing me similar content. It wouldn't show any new trends or new/different content.
- justicezyx 5y agoYou are misled by the title... ByteDance's overwhelming revenue is from non-TikTok sources, i.e., all JinRiTouTIao, DouYin, and other minor properties. The title wants you to think it related to TikTok as it was one of the most controversial news pieces in 2020. TikTok's financial success is still very uncertain. ByteDance is facing a weak BIDU (note Alibaba do not have much Ads business, and Tencent has a different walled garden), while here they are facing FB & Google in US.
- hn_throwaway_99 5y ago> TikTok's financial success is still very uncertain. I would take that bet any day of the week and twice on Fridays. TikTok has a massive, growing user base with engaging content on a platform that people generally like. I find it hard to believe they would succeed so massively in their app design and recommendation algorithms and then fail at monetization, which at this point is the trivial part. I don't know what BIDU means.
- justicezyx 5y agoBIDU is baidu's stock tick For any spectacularly failed startup, there have been ardent supporters who uttered words no less enthusiasm than yours. When I say their future are uncertain, I mean that it's more uncertain than one might expect, based on DouYin's success in China. One evidence I raised, is that competitors here are much stronger. Plus, you might not believe it, CCP is more friendly to big tech than US government...
- mongol 5y agoTinder is the same. I.e beautifully crafted for addiction.
- dominotw 5y agoi uninstalled it and avoid it all cost because i ended up spending around 14 hrs in the app for the 5 days i had it installed on my phone. Unfortunately now the copy cats like youtube shorts have me hooked and i cannot uninstall youtube because i use it for so many more things.
- passivate 5y ago> it scares me because it means that Chinese companies are just as capable as us to spin the next Facebook and distribute propaganda to the next generation. Is there any good reason to focus on the misuse of a technology?
- JoshTko 5y agothe feed algo is very good. I can assure you that there is loads of political content if you want to see it.
- jozvolskyef 5y agoOne feature that amazes me about the algorithm is that it reacts to scrolling habits in what seems to be the minimum possible number of observations. Suppose half of your feed are talking head videos. Stop interacting with them abruptly by scrolling over within 2 seconds and observe how the algorithm gradually reduces their frequency.
- hiidrew 5y agoI do not use the product (mainly because I'm too hooked on others...sadly) but one of my biggest gripes on the UX is the lack of video player controlls. It really grinds my gears to have to watch 90% of a 60 sec video to be able to replay text at the end of something else. Other social apps fail with this as well, e.g. Snapchat, Instagram. I'm curious how intentional the design decision is, perhaps trying to maximize time spent on the app? Interesting though how FB and Twitter do not follow the design pattern.
- schoolornot 5y agoI never understood the Chinese propaganda angle but I agree the app is wonderful. It's the only app that has found a way to touch every one of my emotions.
- jollybean 5y ago"Just as Capable?" Facebook removes what they deem 'hate speech' and some controversial things during emergencies, like minsinformation about vaccines. TikTok actively suppresses all sorts of information. Go ahead and put up Toks of Hong Kong protests, Tienanmen square or Uyghurs incarceration. Mostly - this suppression is just the natural business language of Chinese owners, but it's also direct and indirect pressure from the CCP. That's not very comparable to what Facebook is doing. That said, it's a decent app.