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I've noticed that as well and got a reply from the creator on reddit. And it's been a rather disappointing one... "Take the cancel culture mentaility and shove

I've noticed that as well and got a reply from the creator on reddit. And it's been a rather disappointing one... "Take the cancel culture mentaility and shove it up your ass." https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/o2ly6f/friday_facts_366_the_only_way_to_go_fast_is_to_go/h273tim/ https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/o2ly6f/friday_fac...

oauea 5y ago
He's completely right. The behavior of this Uncle Bob person on social media (or anywhere outside of the linked videos) has absolutely nothing to do with the linked videos. Please stop derailing these discussions by trying to insert drama where there is none.
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  Yeah, thinking that Uncle Bob’s extracurricular activities are off topic doesn’t excuse flaming your own fans about it. That will always make things worse, and lead a lot of people to reasonably believe that the real problem is that he agrees with Uncle Bob on these things. Especially when Kovarex ignored complaints about Uncle Bob’s programming advice to focus in on the culture war instead.
  - oauea 5y ago
    Not even close to what happened. Some dramaqueens came by and started whining about unrelated points about someone he referenced in his article. Understandably, he is annoyed that these people are now personally attacking both this person and Kovarex himself. American cancel culture is incredibly toxic.
Sr_developer 5y ago
Well, tbh you kinda of deserved it. Although uncle Bob's methodology can be highly suspect and not worth 1% of its hype the article you linked (https://techexplained.substack.com/p/tech-bullshit-explained-uncle-bob https://techexplained.substack.com/p/tech-bullshit-explained...) was not a technical criticism , it was something which at best seems written by a tumblerina.
- oauea 5y ago
  And now the fine folks at reddit are censoring the creator of Factorio on the game's own subreddit. This is absolutely ridiculous. Cancel culture is real, and Kovarex is right to worry about it.
  - istjohn 5y ago
    No one is allowed to use language like "shove it up your ass" here on Hackernews, either. For good reason. Respectful discourse is most important precisely when debate touches on hot button issues.
- danielatc 5y ago
  Fortunately a lot of people within the thread can defend my point better than I can. I prefer to listen rather than to speak up, but in this instance and context I felt it was the right thing to speak up for once to raise awareness in a circle that otherwise might be oblivious to the issue. And yes the article I linked was certainly not the best. It was simply one example out of many that makes a case of him being problematic as I couldn't find a more canonical piece on the spot.
  - oauea 5y ago
    If you can't even argue your own point, I'm not sure you should be making it...
    - danielatc 5y ago
      English is not my native language. And these kind of debates demand a very careful choice of words that are often not easy for me to find. That's why I'm rather reserved in these types of conversations, not because I doubt that my point is valid.
      - oauea 5y ago
        That's pretty weak, easy to make all kinds of claims like that, then just be like "whelp sorry not my language!" when people respond to your provocation. Good way to stir the pot pointlessly. English is not my native language either, by the way.
istjohn 5y ago
Wow. That's very dissapointing. Choosing to look the other way when someone uses sexist language is not a principled stand. We are all responsible for cultivating a culture in software development that is inclusive. That means holding prominent people within the field to a high standard of professionalism. Not because we want to be thought police, but because no one should feel unwelcome in this field because of their gender, sexual orientatien, or skin color.
- xdennis 5y ago
  Everybody makes mistakes, but mobbing every unrelated thread isn't the solution to sexism. Calling him racist because he's not for defunding the police is even worse.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- oauea 5y ago
  The US government actively kills many people in other countries. Should we start holding every American personally responsible? Am I sharing a forum with a bunch of horrible murderers? Or can we accept that just because a person, organization, or government that you support does horrible things, that does not make you yourself a horrible person by default?
  - birdyrooster 5y ago
    6 of one, half dozen of the other If we are all horrible by default then we have to hold each other accountable in relative terms. I think our association with murderers and shitty people makes us all horrible and we should accept that and try to become less so? It’s not that bad being bad, it’s just how it is.
  - carbonguy 5y ago
    Nuance does not seem to be your strong suit, based on this and other comments, but I nevertheless feel compelled to ask whether you see no actual difference between: a) pointing out that a particular developer has a habit of expressing reactionary views (which, to make it extra clear for you, is all that OP did), and b) whatever it is you think happened? And, to address your questions, because hey why not - > The US government actively kills many people in other countries. Should we start holding every American personally responsible? This depends on whether you believe America is a representative democracy or not. Since I do believe this is mostly true, then yes, the American voting-age population does bear some measure of the responsibility for the crimes committed in its name, and I personally feel sick at heart and actively motivated to foster political change for this specific reason among others. > Am I sharing a forum with a bunch of horrible murderers? Probably not "a bunch" as I would define it, but I suspect that HN is large enough that there might be a murderer or two here. > [C]an we accept that just because a person, organization, or government that you support does horrible things, that does not make you yourself a horrible person by default? No, I can't accept that. If I hear somebody praising, say, Ted Bundy or the CIA to the skies, my takeaway from that is "geez, I don't want to be associated with this person." But then, I guess you did throw "horrible" in there, and benefit of the doubt being what it is, I wouldn't necessarily assume that this hypothetical person was "horrible" - I just wouldn't have a shred of interest in finding out more about them.
thrwaeasddsaf 5y ago
Tbh I think a rule like "be nice" should also imply "don't spread dirt on people."
thrower123 5y ago
It's generally best to not give sealions the time of day
carbonguy 5y ago
For anyone like me trying to find the comment that kovarex made, apparently it was removed by the moderator of the r/factorio subreddit. EDIT to add link to mod comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/o2ly6f/friday_facts_366_the_only_way_to_go_fast_is_to_go/h27k1sf?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/o2ly6f/friday_fac...
- robocat 5y ago
  Also note that kovarex tries to engage with the critics (or fans the flames) in the reddit thread, although most of his comments have been downvoted hard (hard for me to say whether he is being cancelled/brigaded - I don’t do reddit).

oauea 5y ago

He's completely right. The behavior of this Uncle Bob person on social media (or anywhere outside of the linked videos) has absolutely nothing to do with the linked videos. Please stop derailing these discussions by trying to insert drama where there is none.

ashtonkem 5y ago
Yeah, thinking that Uncle Bob’s extracurricular activities are off topic doesn’t excuse flaming your own fans about it. That will always make things worse, and lead a lot of people to reasonably believe that the real problem is that he agrees with Uncle Bob on these things. Especially when Kovarex ignored complaints about Uncle Bob’s programming advice to focus in on the culture war instead.
- oauea 5y ago
  Not even close to what happened. Some dramaqueens came by and started whining about unrelated points about someone he referenced in his article. Understandably, he is annoyed that these people are now personally attacking both this person and Kovarex himself. American cancel culture is incredibly toxic.

Sr_developer 5y ago

Well, tbh you kinda of deserved it. Although uncle Bob's methodology can be highly suspect and not worth 1% of its hype the article you linked (https://techexplained.substack.com/p/tech-bullshit-explained-uncle-bob https://techexplained.substack.com/p/tech-bullshit-explained...) was not a technical criticism , it was something which at best seems written by a tumblerina.

oauea 5y ago
And now the fine folks at reddit are censoring the creator of Factorio on the game's own subreddit. This is absolutely ridiculous. Cancel culture is real, and Kovarex is right to worry about it.
- istjohn 5y ago
  No one is allowed to use language like "shove it up your ass" here on Hackernews, either. For good reason. Respectful discourse is most important precisely when debate touches on hot button issues.
danielatc 5y ago
Fortunately a lot of people within the thread can defend my point better than I can. I prefer to listen rather than to speak up, but in this instance and context I felt it was the right thing to speak up for once to raise awareness in a circle that otherwise might be oblivious to the issue. And yes the article I linked was certainly not the best. It was simply one example out of many that makes a case of him being problematic as I couldn't find a more canonical piece on the spot.
- oauea 5y ago
  If you can't even argue your own point, I'm not sure you should be making it...
  - danielatc 5y ago
    English is not my native language. And these kind of debates demand a very careful choice of words that are often not easy for me to find. That's why I'm rather reserved in these types of conversations, not because I doubt that my point is valid.
    - oauea 5y ago
      That's pretty weak, easy to make all kinds of claims like that, then just be like "whelp sorry not my language!" when people respond to your provocation. Good way to stir the pot pointlessly. English is not my native language either, by the way.

istjohn 5y ago

Wow. That's very dissapointing. Choosing to look the other way when someone uses sexist language is not a principled stand. We are all responsible for cultivating a culture in software development that is inclusive. That means holding prominent people within the field to a high standard of professionalism. Not because we want to be thought police, but because no one should feel unwelcome in this field because of their gender, sexual orientatien, or skin color.

xdennis 5y ago
Everybody makes mistakes, but mobbing every unrelated thread isn't the solution to sexism. Calling him racist because he's not for defunding the police is even worse.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
oauea 5y ago
The US government actively kills many people in other countries. Should we start holding every American personally responsible? Am I sharing a forum with a bunch of horrible murderers? Or can we accept that just because a person, organization, or government that you support does horrible things, that does not make you yourself a horrible person by default?
- birdyrooster 5y ago
  6 of one, half dozen of the other If we are all horrible by default then we have to hold each other accountable in relative terms. I think our association with murderers and shitty people makes us all horrible and we should accept that and try to become less so? It’s not that bad being bad, it’s just how it is.
- carbonguy 5y ago
  Nuance does not seem to be your strong suit, based on this and other comments, but I nevertheless feel compelled to ask whether you see no actual difference between: a) pointing out that a particular developer has a habit of expressing reactionary views (which, to make it extra clear for you, is all that OP did), and b) whatever it is you think happened? And, to address your questions, because hey why not - > The US government actively kills many people in other countries. Should we start holding every American personally responsible? This depends on whether you believe America is a representative democracy or not. Since I do believe this is mostly true, then yes, the American voting-age population does bear some measure of the responsibility for the crimes committed in its name, and I personally feel sick at heart and actively motivated to foster political change for this specific reason among others. > Am I sharing a forum with a bunch of horrible murderers? Probably not "a bunch" as I would define it, but I suspect that HN is large enough that there might be a murderer or two here. > [C]an we accept that just because a person, organization, or government that you support does horrible things, that does not make you yourself a horrible person by default? No, I can't accept that. If I hear somebody praising, say, Ted Bundy or the CIA to the skies, my takeaway from that is "geez, I don't want to be associated with this person." But then, I guess you did throw "horrible" in there, and benefit of the doubt being what it is, I wouldn't necessarily assume that this hypothetical person was "horrible" - I just wouldn't have a shred of interest in finding out more about them.

thrwaeasddsaf 5y ago

Tbh I think a rule like "be nice" should also imply "don't spread dirt on people."

thrower123 5y ago

It's generally best to not give sealions the time of day

carbonguy 5y ago

For anyone like me trying to find the comment that kovarex made, apparently it was removed by the moderator of the r/factorio subreddit. EDIT to add link to mod comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/o2ly6f/friday_facts_366_the_only_way_to_go_fast_is_to_go/h27k1sf?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/o2ly6f/friday_fac...

robocat 5y ago
Also note that kovarex tries to engage with the critics (or fans the flames) in the reddit thread, although most of his comments have been downvoted hard (hard for me to say whether he is being cancelled/brigaded - I don’t do reddit).