8 ms·

I will never not talk about my depression

79 points by freefrag 5y ago

t0mbstone 5y ago
Wow, I wish I could just go on sick leave for 4 months because I was feeling depressed...
- gfody 5y ago
  depression eventually gets you to the point that you can't work no matter how critical that employment is to your well being you just stop showing up or quit in a mental breakdown. sick leave is a nice alternative and i agree it must be nice to have that option but when you say "feeling depressed" vs being depressed i think you have the wrong idea about it.
  - t0mbstone 5y ago
    What do you call it when your wife who you deeply love develops schizophrenia and bi-polar tendencies less than a year after you get married and then you sacrifice your 20's to take care of her only for her to end up killing herself, and then you feel sad and try to block the sad memories that make you feel depressed by working all the time and putting yourself to sleep every night for the next ten years by drinking alcohol? I consider myself to be a high-functioning, depressed alcoholic. Most people who know me have no clue I'm depressed. Keep in mind, I'm not suicidal. I just often find myself feeling sad and like life is ultimately pointless, and I try to find ways to self-medicate so I don't notice the sadness as much. I also feel severely burnt out, even though I enjoy my job which pays well (which is a very strange paradox that I can't explain even to myself).
    - gfody 5y ago
      depression is about what you can and can't do regardless the shit you've been through - I won't put a label on your life experience, but if you can function well and enjoy it you're probably not depressed
      - t0mbstone 5y ago
        > if you can function well and enjoy it you're probably not depressed “Depression affects all personalities and can look very different in various people,” says Jodi Aman, psychotherapist and author of “You 1, Anxiety 0: Win Your Life Back from Fear and Panic.” “A highly functioning person can be suffering invisibly too,” she says. https://www.healthline.com/health/depression/this-is-what-high-functioning-depression-looks-like#Depression-has-many-faces https://www.healthline.com/health/depression/this-is-what-hi...
        gfody 5y ago
        I stick to my point and tbh you should talk to a doctor or get a diagnosis from someone deeply familiar with the dsm and not self diagnose and self treat. fwiw I can appreciate you're carrying emotional pain and suffering and it's common we throw around the word "depression" casually to describe this stuff but I don't think you're clinically depressed until it starts overriding your executive function .. it's all a scale of course and you could be heading in a direction so either way talking to a doctor would be good for you
        t0mbstone 5y ago
        Thank you for the advice! I appreciate it
- barbazoo 5y ago
  I'm sure you didn't do it on purpose but the "because I was feeling depressed" part to me makes it sounds a little condescending. Depression for many isn't just something you "feel", it's what defines everything you can and can't do.
- uniqueuid 5y ago
  Depression is a major illness (ICD-10: https://icd.codes/icd10cm/F329 https://icd.codes/icd10cm/F329), there is nothing slight about it. Getting treatment and going on leave if you have the option is definitely the right thing.
  - t0mbstone 5y ago
    Long-term disability (LTD) insurers are generally reluctant to approve claims for benefits based on mental illnesses such as depression or bipolar disorder.
- newmnhn 5y ago
  Huge difference between "feeling depressed" and "being unable to function on a daily basis due to a medical condition called depression". Sick leave is appropriate if a person is sick. Depression can take over your life and make you unable to work. If sick leave does not exist for a depressed person they either become dependent on family or just get fired, risking homelessness, credit problems, increased chances of suicide etc. In some countries and jobs ... well, that's what happens. But some places treat sick leave differently and if a doctor says you are sick you can get a lot of paid leave in order to recover.
  - globular-toast 5y ago
    OK, I wish I could just go on sick leave for 4 months due to being unable to function on a daily basis due to a medical condition.
    - newmnhn 5y ago
      In a lot of places, _you can_ friend!
- csilverman 5y ago
  I deal with depression. If I could choose between a four-month vacation and not being depressed, I would take not being depressed. I wouldn't even have to think about it. It's like looking at someone who's sick with a debilitating illness and saying "Wow, I sure wish I could just lie around in bed all day." No, t0mbstone, you don't. All the things you're imagining you'd do with that time—you can't really do them when you're feeling sick all day long. This isn't just feeling blue. It's darkness, 24/7.
  - shkkmo 5y ago
    I think this is an uncharitable response. There is nothing in this comment that implies the person posting it is not depressed. I think there is a very fair point being made about the privilege of having the possibility of a four month vacation to deal with mental health issues. For many people, a four month break from one's responsibilities has a strong likihood of resulting in homelessness and/or permanent harm to employability.
    - csilverman 5y ago
      If I'd thought that's what they meant, I would have reacted differently. Perhaps I misinterpreted it—I'd agree 100% that most employers are not nearly as understanding or generous as they should be regarding disability leave. But I was not the only one here who felt that the tone of the comment came a little too close to the "wow, I sure wish I could have a nice vacation if I was feeling sad" business that most of us are very used to hearing from people who have no experience with depression, and think that those who do are just babies who need to stop being sad and go outside.
      - shkkmo 5y ago
        > ...felt that the tone of the comment came a little too close to... Making assumptions as to intent or meaning because of percieved tone isn't very charitable. You are correct in that you are far from the only one to do so. I do it sometimes too, but that doesn't make it productive. I am not saying you shouldn't acknowledge how the tone came accross and explain how frequently that sentiment is faced. I am saying you should do that while assuming the best possible intrepretion of the comment you are responding to. > ...think that those who do are just babies who need to stop being sad and go outside While I don't hear that sentiment from other people very often, my own brain frequently says it to me; It isn't very helpful.
- JKCalhoun 5y ago
  Do you suffer from depression and wish that your employer would recognize it as an illness?
  - t0mbstone 5y ago
    I suffer from depression and don't even want my employer to know. There is too much stigma against mental illness here in the USA.
- rspeele 5y ago
  It's objectively a privileged position to be able to do that and not become homeless, but I wouldn't wish for it. Have you ever had a day at work or during your schooling where, due to burnout, depression, anxiety, lack of direction, laziness, whatever... you just got nothing done? Maybe you wasted all your time reading/writing emails; browsing the web; etc? I have had some days like that. And if I worked in a factory or a fast food restaurant, I would look at that experience and say, "gee, sure would be nice to be able to sit around doing nothing all day". But those days weren't like a vacation, they sucked. I didn't get any enjoyment or relaxation out of it. I felt crappy all day and even worse at the end of the day for having accomplished nothing. Even days where there's a production emergency and I have to fix bugs under pressure from clients feel better than that. I've never taken 4 months off from work for mental health but I imagine it feels about like that...
  - t0mbstone 5y ago
    I have been working my whole life. I have been working professionally as a web developer and software engineer since I was 13 years old. I am 37 years old with 24 years of professional experience. During that entire time, there were only a couple of periods where I had more than a month off of work. Each of those times were when I was in between jobs and was trying to find new work, so I don't really count those periods as vacations. I'm just so tired of the grind. I just want a long break to do nothing. I want to do nothing until I'm literally sick of doing nothing. I imagine that when/if that happened, I would be able to find my passion again. I'm not sure if it would look anything like the type of work I've been doing for years, but I agree with you. I realize that long term happiness is usually tied to creativity.
- bigwavedave 5y ago
  > Wow, I wish I could just go on sick leave for 4 months because I was feeling depressed... Well... If you're indeed depressed, I wish for that too. However, if you're actually healthy and just making a snarky comment, then I hope you never experience depression- it's hell. No amount of descriptive imagery or keen adjectives can ever convey what it actually feels like, so I understand how people who've never been in its jaws can be so dismissive. After all, just like it's hard to tell that stuffed inside a ballerina's blood-filled shoes are cramped, broken, _aching_ feet, it's hard to wrap your head around pain that isn't readily seen, much less try to empathize with the person feeling it. The only way I can think of to describe depression is to describe suicidal ideation: when you have a moment, go to your garage, get a hammer, and smash your thumb with it. Not a pleasant thought, right? I'd be willing to bet that if you were to legitimately try, you'd find it almost impossible; the instinct for self preservation is one of the most basic, powerful instincts. Now, imagine a situation where you're in so much pain that this instinct is completely overwhelmed and you actively try to kill yourself to stop it, a situation where you cannot believe you'll ever be able to be happy again, a situation that feels truly hopeless. That's depression. While suicidal ideation is one of the extremes, depression is something that drives a person to that point. In all honesty, I sincerely hope neither you nor your loved ones ever have to face such despair. "That they experienced loss is not a gain, and that they experienced pain is not a victory." But hey, I'm just some guy on the internet- YMMV.
  - t0mbstone 5y ago
    I'm actually depressed, and have been for years. Working remotely in a room by myself for the last year hasn't helped. I haven't had a real vacation (more than a week or so of time off) in years. I have less than 2 weeks worth of PTO sick time accrued. I genuinely wish I had the option of taking 4 months of paid sick leave for mental health reasons. I'm pretty sure that would help me reset my mental state.
fossuser 5y ago
I wonder how much making being depressed part of your identity prevents you from getting better. I'm not dismissing the reality of it, but reinforcing it to yourself and others around you on a constant basis probably isn't helpful? Constantly ruminating on your depressed state probably isn't good either. Pretending everything is great probably isn't a good idea or likely even possible (or desirable?), but I'm not persuaded constantly talking about it is a healthy option either.
- threwway 5y ago
  I know some people who can talk about their psychological struggles and remain likeable (it's some kind of charisma superpower), but other people where it's just a massive bummer (myself included). Step number one of getting along with people has been masking my internal state where possible. That lets me get by. The endless pit of despair and hopelessness that long-term depression can present, as with many chronic illnesses, it can just be a massive downer (especially when there's literally nothing the other person can do - why burden them with knowledge of my pain more than necessary?). And I can be likeable and fun to be around, and I appreciate it when I know other people who are struggling internally manage to play along also in their own way [ I know it takes them a lot of effort and I appreciate it deeply ]. This is how making it work works for me. Though I guess I can appreciate the principled approach of the person writing the article, that would be a disaster for me given how I am (and I don't think it reflects badly on my social circles). I have to struggle to not be a happiness vampire, and this would tip the scales. >I’ve been in therapy on and off and I’m taking meds (and no, yoga, essential oils and exercise are not sufficient to treat mental illness) Often neither is medication.
  - fossuser 5y ago
    > I know some people who can talk about their psychological struggles and remain likeable I'd argue this is the basis for all good standup comedy.
    - jstarfish 5y ago
      What's the one question you never want to ask a Munchhausen candidate? "How are you doing?"
draw_down 5y ago
Well, I hope this person tries to do something about their depression besides just talking about it. For their sake as well as the sake of everyone around them who is probably tired of hearing about it.
odyssey7 5y ago
I've seen very promising people lose their dreams to depression. Often times, I think back to one profoundly talented programmer who I met in Miami years ago, who is no longer with us. (When I met her and saw what she was working on, I was intimidated to see what a high schooler these days could do, and to be honest I breathed a sigh of relief when I found out she was an outlier.) What a tragedy, and what a loss that was for her community. In other cases, I've seen passionate, curious people fail out of school or work and never recover personally or professionally from it.
- ganzuul 5y ago
  Chances are there was nothing wrong with her. When you have the ability to see from miles away the odds stacked against you, sticking around takes a bit of insanity.
  - ganzuul 5y ago
    This comment went from +3 votes to -4. How depressing.
wizzwizz4 5y ago
There're a lot of people in the comments here who don't seem to know what depression is. Depression isn't just “I'm sad all the time”. Functionally, depression is a reduction in the set of actions that one can take. For some, it can be bad enough that “fill out this form, make this phone call, write the reference number on the form then post it” is too much. No, there's no reason they shouldn't be able to do that. That's why it's called a mental illness. Sure, they could “just try harder” except oops, that's not on the list either. (See http://www.depressionquest.com/dqfinal.html http://www.depressionquest.com/dqfinal.html for a good analogy.) Many depressed people come up with psychological tricks to move necessary tasks from the “unavailable actions” category to the “available actions” category. Possibly the best one I've heard is the “shower heist”: it's not “taking a shower”, it's grand theft of the clean. If you think depression is “just laziness”, why would someone go to all the effort of reframing basic actions in this way? So please, none of that.
- gverrilla 5y ago
  I agree except for: >No, there's no reason they shouldn't be able to do that. That's why it's called a mental illness. That's not the reason it's called a mental illness. It's called an illness because it's a source of suffering. Also, of course there's a reason - otherwise it wouldn't happen.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  I think the larger sentiment (and you're welcome to correct me if I'm wrong) is that dealing with depressed people is tiring. I have a few friends who deal with chronic depression, and getting their input on things or checking up on them is always a production. I still greatly appreciate their position in my life, but my sanity (and patience) is finite. More often than not, I'm equally (if not more) helpless, which makes it extremely difficult to disengage or move the discussion forwards. I welcome an honest dialogue around mental health, but a dialogue requires two people to be dynamic. If the two become mutually incompatible, then there's effectively no way for me to contribute.
- abnry 5y ago
  > There're a lot of people in the comments here who don't seem to know what depression is. There is a lot of people who don't seem to know what depression is because no one really knows what is depression. It is complex, it is multi-faceted, it can be subtle, it can be overt. It varies from person to person. It varies in causes.
andreyk 5y ago
I am also in academia (a PhD student), and this resonates with me a lot. I got into major depressive episode by the end of last year (having had a few before that) , and was pretty unproductive until the end of March, which is then I took a month long vacation and moved back in with my parents to get back on my feet. Which I was able to do because I spoke openly about my mental health with my advisor and collaborators. And like this person, I shared my experience in a public blog post (https://www.andreykurenkov.com/writing/life/covid_depression/ https://www.andreykurenkov.com/writing/life/covid_depression...). I tend to agree that normalising being honest and open about depression is good - even just saying you were less productive and went on vacation due to it is good, because then others might see that as the healthy thing to do instead of as something that they can't consider. Granted, 'never not talk about depression' seems like it's overstating things, but on balance I think this blog post makes a good point.
obvthrowaway32 5y ago
I used to have depression from early to mid adulthood that I could not shake off. Many times, it felt like it would never go away, almost like it was an integral part of me. When I was deep in my hole, I thought thoughts like "don't kid yourself, you're always depressed, this is how it is", and I certainly did not have any reason hoping I would some day suddenly not be depressed. But while it was not sudden at all, I am happy to say that I am now, by all means of assessment, not a person suffering of depression anymore. I think in my case I was "lucky" that I did not want to take medication against it, any at all, and that my causes of depression did not require it. With a very big warning: It was lucky for my situation, and my apparent causes of depression. I do not want to assert that medication cannot help. My reasons for not taking medication were partly misguided, partly right (again, for my specific case). For example, I had the fear that medication would change my "personality" beyond removing depression, and I did not want to change my personality, because I liked the "good" part of my life, in the intervals where I was not suffering from depression too much (I say "too much" because I'm not sure I was ever really happy during that time). I don't think that's how the medication works, though. So that left talk therapy, a lot of it. Years of it, sometimes interesting, often difficult. And through all of that, I discovered that I had reasons to be depressed, but I was very far away from seeing and understanding those reasons just on my own. They manifested as "generic" depression instead. Getting to those reasons and talking about them straight cured me. Part of it might have just been understanding my emotions at all. I am probably very lucky in that regard, going from "almost always depressed, sometimes too much to properly function" to "basically cured" by finding out what actually bothered me. Not everything is rosy now, life does not work that way. Sometimes life situations make me sad, overwhelmed, even desperate, and may still send me into a depressive hole for some time. But when that happens nowadays, I can always attribute a specific reasons to it. I am then depressed because depressing things are happening, and it is an "appropriate" reaction. To go back to the beginning, understanding the obvious reason why you are currently depressed entirely removes the "this is a part of me" aspect. Nobody thinks a person mourning for a loved one suffers from "depression" as a condition, for example. I think I learned a new skill. Second disclaimer: I can only speak for what I went through, and I am not a professional. It is entirely possible that your depression has other causes, and cannot be fixed by talk therapy. For some, knowing that it worked for me might instill hope, though.
gverrilla 5y ago
I've noticed it's very common to swap 'sadness' and 'depression' in american english. In brazilian portuguese we have an abreviation for "depressão" which is "deprê". Depression is the illness and "deprê" is slang for "sad" and they do not mix. It seems to me by equating both the american english is making it harder for people to realize the difference (which is tremendous).
- smegcicle 5y ago
  I wonder if the pt-br words being so similar makes the difference more explicit, that perhaps the english words being so obviously different, makes it easier to forget? if the topic would ever come up seriously, most everyone would agree that depression is different than regular sadness- but in casual conversation it sometimes seems to warp into depression being a kind of adult form of sadness, almost as if sadness is just for children...
- Zababa 5y ago
  The hard part for me is trying to figure out if "I was depressed" means "I had depression" or "I was experiencing sadness".
overgard 5y ago
I've quit a job because I was going through bad depression before and I didn't think I could do a good job. I even asked for part time work, so I understand where she's coming from, but.. In my opinion, this attitude she's portraying is a dangerous attitude to have. This victimhood seems core to her identity. I'm not trying to shame the condition, I'm trying to say that the condition shouldn't become some core part of your identity. Real phenomenon: Have you ever heard of cancer patients becoming depressed after they've gone into remission, because being a "cancer patient" essentially became a core of their identity, and once they no longer had it they became lost? You don't want your identity to be "depressed person", because the last thing you want is to start feeling like a fraud when the fog starts to lift. Also, I'm just going to say, it's ok to want your employer to have empathy for you, but you also have to have empathy for them. If you're consistently telling them "well, so, I'm a good employee, but I might drop off the face of the earth for 4 months at a time".. what are they supposed to do?
- TheAdamAndChe 5y ago
  You see this a lot nowadays. A lot of social media sites are biased towards positivity and reaffirmation, but what happens is that people get lots of positive feedback for identities and mentalities that are counter productive to a good life.
- vergessenmir 5y ago
  I agree wholeheartedly while being empathetic with what she's going through. The identification is, as you say, dangerous. Most people have depressive episodes at least once in their lifetime, and it can leave just as suddenly as it comes. It makes me wonder if this intense identification slows her recovery or even worse blinds her from seeing its cause; if in this case it has to do with how she is living her life in terms of family, work and social life. I hope she gets better.
- shkkmo 5y ago
  I didn't see anything in the article about seeing herself as a victim or it being ”core to her identity." I think you might be projecting here. In fact, I see her desire and efforts to normalize depression as an attempt to move away from victimhood. > You don't want your identity to be "depressed person", because the last thing you want is to start feeling like a fraud when the fog starts to lift. You also don't want to assume because the fog lifted, you should completely disassemble the support mechanisms you have built. Like with cancer remission, there is a signifant chance of relapse that can be somewhat mitigated by good monitoring amd timely interventions.
mahathu 5y ago
> although the Covid-19 pandemic definitely hasn’t helped If anything, people who have experienced depression before would be more capable and resilient when dealing with the pandemic restrictions. Because they're used to dealing with negativity. I know at least that was the case with me and some friends of mine who are also affected.
- fastasucan 5y ago
  Also, there can be some peace in knowing the whole world is shit down, and everyone is sitting at home surfing the web, for those who struggle with lonelyness.
  - norvvryo 5y ago
    For a while, yeah. After a few months of seclusion, I felt completely trapped with no way out. Knowing you're not alone in your situation doesn't make being alone in your life feel any better. I had started working on my social skills at the end of 2019. I began going out again in January or February of this year and I still haven't made back the progress I lost during the lockdown.
underseacables 5y ago
When I had depression I found it very therapeutic to talk about it, to put it out in the open, but I also ran into a lot of people who couldn’t stop talking about their depression. at some point talking about your depression is just as depressing to others as the depression itself
- opheliate 5y ago
  For me, when I'm capable of doing so, being around others in person is one of the best ways to cope with my depression. The pandemic has been massively destructive for my mental health because of this.
DoreenMichele 5y ago
From what I gather, there are some studies that show that dietary intervention helps and that piece of it seems to boil down to "some foods promote brain inflammation and this makes depression worse." My personal opinion is that a lot of what gets currently classified as mental illness would be best seen as a somatopsychic side effects of actual physical illness. I have a really serious and incurable medical condition. Somatopsychic side effects are a big part of my life. In many cases, I have figured out "This specific mental or emotional thing indicates this specific nutrient deficiency." And the treatment ends up being "Eat foods high in that nutrient." Having said that, I think a large part of mental illness is really "you are a product of your social environment and the world can sometimes be amazingly talented at driving you crazy." But to whatever degree mental illness has roots in actual biology, I really think it should be viewed as illness not mental illness.
- dexwiz 5y ago
  Agreed. Recently I have found probiotics to be a correlated with my mood. Stormy thoughts seem to links to my stormy gut.
beforeolives 5y ago
> I talk about my mental health to anyone who will listen, and also try to those who won’t. I don’t launch into the story of my life and whole disease history but I need everyone to understand that depression is something that affects every aspect of my life. I can't relate to this at all. Maybe it's a big difference in personality, culture or place in life, but the last thing I want to do is to openly share things that are very personal with people that I barely know.
- schroeding 5y ago
  I can kinda relate to it, but I also understand you. I don't know what the author experienced before being so outgoing with it, but I assume there was a phase of "putting up a happy facade and just carry on". And thats really bad, probably worse than "over-correcting" and being very open about it, atleast for yourself, IMO. :-/ I would never open myself to co-workers like this. I can't even tell most of my friends, because I don't want to burden them with it. But a part of me would still like to, just wants to shout it out and let them know (but can't). Because having nobody to support you with this but yourself and some medication is... not ideal. A "facade" like this, where you don't let people know that you're not fine, is pretty exhausting in the long run. It's like you're a robot, mechanically trying to keep everybody from worrying. I don't know if the other extreme is any better, but if it works for her and her environment, good for her. ^^
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bufordtwain 5y ago
I can relate to this. She is bravely talking about a condition that is still somewhat taboo (mental health) in order to 1) help others understand her problem and 2) make it less taboo. This potentially helps her and others in a similar position. I do the same thing when talking about my son who is struggling with addiction, though I am very selective about who I discuss it with. It's surprising how many people have someone they know in the same position or are in a similar position themselves. But you have to talk about it before you find this out. Talking about it helps you (assuming the person you are talking to has some empathy) and gradually makes it more acceptable for the issue to be discussed in public. Good for her.
jokoon 5y ago
The thing is, I'm pretty sure 15 to 30% of the population experience depression. Severity varies, but it's difficult for psychiatry to draw a line between melancholy and depression. I'm pretty certain there are depressed people who are somehow functional and have unhealthy ways to cope and are able to go through it. But it doesn't mean that people who are functional can give lessons to those who are not. Talking about depression is okay, and medicating is good, but in my view there are way more people with depression than we like to admit. So talking about it it'sy okay, but it's more about being able to admit weakness. We don't like to show vulnerability and weakness, but we should.
- Zababa 5y ago
  That's pretty much me. I have a few friends that have severe depression, some with suicide attempts, some that ruminate a lot at night and have their minds go to scary places. For me I just keep putting on pounds and sometimes I don't sleep at all for a night, but I can usually function "normally". I've had a few bad experiences with psychologist when I was younger which makes me a bit sceptict of them and I don't like opening up to other people. I should probably try some medication but I don't know if I have it in me.
cupcake-unicorn 5y ago
Ok, there's a lot to unpack here. The thing that people are saying about clinging to an identity has truth to it and it can hold you back. However this is the way I look at it and interpret it. Depression is often an invisible illness. There are physical invisible illness too. Depression is a disability just like any other. It is very possible to a form of chronic treatment resistant depression that lasts your whole life. There is nothing dangerous about "normalizing" the fact that you can have a mental illness that will never go away. My 20s were awful because people who didn't know me were constantly trying to tell me this was a phase or I would "get over it". I didn't. Once I learned to embrace that and not listen to those people I started recovering further. However it still never went away, but I never expect it to go away. It is what it is, it's a pain sometimes, just like having a physical disability is, there are more steps to take, and more things you have to watch for but if you have some support and educate yourself you find ways to navigate it just the way someone with a physical disability does. As you get older you find more areas in life that are not for you, or you need more help in, and so on, and it gets better with age to some extent because of having more of these experiences to draw from and being secure about what your needs are and sticking up for them. It can be lonely as a lot of people try to tell you something else but if you know certain environments lead to hospitalization for you, you shut that out and stop engaging with that crap anymore. So as someone with chronic TRD I look at what she's saying like this. When you're in "recovery" (I kind of hate that term with mental illness but it is what it is) your environment is very, very important to you. Let's forget the psych part of it now. Is someone with a physical mobility disability going to thrive if they're in a 6th floor apartment with no elevator that's not ADA compliant? No. No question. The disability is relevant to that situation because it's not a good fit for them and will contribute to worsening symptoms. If someone is physically in a wheelchair or physically has a cane or whatever someone may step in and be like, hey, yeah this apartment isn't ADA compliant, let's find you something else, whatever. But with invisible disabilities you don't have anything to go off of. Now let's go back to that same analogy with someone with depression. People you surround yourself with, again, your environment, can heavily influence how this disorder plays out. Just because someone is "nice" and well meaning, it doesn't mean they are safe. Let me say that again. Someone can be the nicest person in the world, but not safe for you and your symptoms. This is not a value judgement, just like the apartment example is not a value judgement. It's not a good fit and it's better for everyone as someone with a disability that you have a good fit and environment for your disability as things are hard enough already. But depression is an invisible disability. And depression is stigmatized. And now we can throw gender or other things into the mix. Maybe we don't want to tell someone about this, or people at our job, or whatever. There are different reasons for this. But at the end of the day you will run into disability related issues and people won't be able to contextualize them as disability related issues, and they will snowball, and you most likely will suffer as a result. By being upfront and honest about your disability it's the same thing as having a wheelchair or a cane, although it's more stigmatized and less well understood in this case. In society we are at the point where we look down on people making fun of those that are physically disabled or not assisting them but it still happens to a crazy extent. A lot of the work is already done in that case. Even if people don't understand physical disability they are pressured at least to not be an asshole and pressured via ADA to help people out. The reality is that this does get a lot trickier and people who are really just surface level pressured by society and legal issues to help someone out in the workplace, well, you're going to run into a wall at some point with a physical disability too. By talking about your disability it's a litmus test to gauge what people are "safe" for you. It will help you get further in your personal and professional life if you have a feeling for who will be helping you because they either have a better understanding (usually people personally impacted by going through it themselves or having a loved one) or someone who has an open enough mind to want to learn about it. The reality is that a lot of people don't fit into those categories. And in many many personal relationships and environments you will fail if you try to get people to understand who don't. I'm guessing some of the people who are having a reaction to this article are people who just are in the camp of not being "safe" people and need to think about it more or spend time with a loved one who is affected by these things to understand this stuff further. Use the physical disability analogy I used to challenge your views on this subject. People who don't understand this often think I'm passing value judgements on "perfectly nice" people. I'm not. I just need to cultivate the people around me in the same way that I need to cultivate a space that's physically accessible to me if I had a physical disability. The people you surround yourself can effect your emotions and depression is an emotional disability. If my health suffers when I'm around someone it's not going to do us any good for me to force it for their benefit or for appearances, especially when the risk for me is that I could end up hospitalized. You need to keep very strict boundaries as someone with a disability like this and since people don't contextualize it in the same way that they do a physical disability people are often berated and misunderstood for it, a bit like I see in the comments here. She needs to keep herself safe. It can be that you get wrapped up into the identity thing and I can't speak for her but being able bodied/disabled is just as relevant to your outward way of interacting to the world as is your gender expression or so on and you can't leave it off the table, nor should you really if you want to be healthy.
rufus_foreman 5y ago
>> I talk about my mental health to anyone who will listen, and also try to those who won’t. Sorry, that's just plain rude.

79 points by freefrag 5y ago

t0mbstone 5y ago

Wow, I wish I could just go on sick leave for 4 months because I was feeling depressed...

gfody 5y ago
depression eventually gets you to the point that you can't work no matter how critical that employment is to your well being you just stop showing up or quit in a mental breakdown. sick leave is a nice alternative and i agree it must be nice to have that option but when you say "feeling depressed" vs being depressed i think you have the wrong idea about it.
- t0mbstone 5y ago
  What do you call it when your wife who you deeply love develops schizophrenia and bi-polar tendencies less than a year after you get married and then you sacrifice your 20's to take care of her only for her to end up killing herself, and then you feel sad and try to block the sad memories that make you feel depressed by working all the time and putting yourself to sleep every night for the next ten years by drinking alcohol? I consider myself to be a high-functioning, depressed alcoholic. Most people who know me have no clue I'm depressed. Keep in mind, I'm not suicidal. I just often find myself feeling sad and like life is ultimately pointless, and I try to find ways to self-medicate so I don't notice the sadness as much. I also feel severely burnt out, even though I enjoy my job which pays well (which is a very strange paradox that I can't explain even to myself).
  - gfody 5y ago
    depression is about what you can and can't do regardless the shit you've been through - I won't put a label on your life experience, but if you can function well and enjoy it you're probably not depressed
    - t0mbstone 5y ago
      > if you can function well and enjoy it you're probably not depressed “Depression affects all personalities and can look very different in various people,” says Jodi Aman, psychotherapist and author of “You 1, Anxiety 0: Win Your Life Back from Fear and Panic.” “A highly functioning person can be suffering invisibly too,” she says. https://www.healthline.com/health/depression/this-is-what-high-functioning-depression-looks-like#Depression-has-many-faces https://www.healthline.com/health/depression/this-is-what-hi...
      - gfody 5y ago
        I stick to my point and tbh you should talk to a doctor or get a diagnosis from someone deeply familiar with the dsm and not self diagnose and self treat. fwiw I can appreciate you're carrying emotional pain and suffering and it's common we throw around the word "depression" casually to describe this stuff but I don't think you're clinically depressed until it starts overriding your executive function .. it's all a scale of course and you could be heading in a direction so either way talking to a doctor would be good for you
        t0mbstone 5y ago
        Thank you for the advice! I appreciate it
barbazoo 5y ago
I'm sure you didn't do it on purpose but the "because I was feeling depressed" part to me makes it sounds a little condescending. Depression for many isn't just something you "feel", it's what defines everything you can and can't do.
uniqueuid 5y ago
Depression is a major illness (ICD-10: https://icd.codes/icd10cm/F329 https://icd.codes/icd10cm/F329), there is nothing slight about it. Getting treatment and going on leave if you have the option is definitely the right thing.
- t0mbstone 5y ago
  Long-term disability (LTD) insurers are generally reluctant to approve claims for benefits based on mental illnesses such as depression or bipolar disorder.
newmnhn 5y ago
Huge difference between "feeling depressed" and "being unable to function on a daily basis due to a medical condition called depression". Sick leave is appropriate if a person is sick. Depression can take over your life and make you unable to work. If sick leave does not exist for a depressed person they either become dependent on family or just get fired, risking homelessness, credit problems, increased chances of suicide etc. In some countries and jobs ... well, that's what happens. But some places treat sick leave differently and if a doctor says you are sick you can get a lot of paid leave in order to recover.
- globular-toast 5y ago
  OK, I wish I could just go on sick leave for 4 months due to being unable to function on a daily basis due to a medical condition.
  - newmnhn 5y ago
    In a lot of places, _you can_ friend!
csilverman 5y ago
I deal with depression. If I could choose between a four-month vacation and not being depressed, I would take not being depressed. I wouldn't even have to think about it. It's like looking at someone who's sick with a debilitating illness and saying "Wow, I sure wish I could just lie around in bed all day." No, t0mbstone, you don't. All the things you're imagining you'd do with that time—you can't really do them when you're feeling sick all day long. This isn't just feeling blue. It's darkness, 24/7.
- shkkmo 5y ago
  I think this is an uncharitable response. There is nothing in this comment that implies the person posting it is not depressed. I think there is a very fair point being made about the privilege of having the possibility of a four month vacation to deal with mental health issues. For many people, a four month break from one's responsibilities has a strong likihood of resulting in homelessness and/or permanent harm to employability.
  - csilverman 5y ago
    If I'd thought that's what they meant, I would have reacted differently. Perhaps I misinterpreted it—I'd agree 100% that most employers are not nearly as understanding or generous as they should be regarding disability leave. But I was not the only one here who felt that the tone of the comment came a little too close to the "wow, I sure wish I could have a nice vacation if I was feeling sad" business that most of us are very used to hearing from people who have no experience with depression, and think that those who do are just babies who need to stop being sad and go outside.
    - shkkmo 5y ago
      > ...felt that the tone of the comment came a little too close to... Making assumptions as to intent or meaning because of percieved tone isn't very charitable. You are correct in that you are far from the only one to do so. I do it sometimes too, but that doesn't make it productive. I am not saying you shouldn't acknowledge how the tone came accross and explain how frequently that sentiment is faced. I am saying you should do that while assuming the best possible intrepretion of the comment you are responding to. > ...think that those who do are just babies who need to stop being sad and go outside While I don't hear that sentiment from other people very often, my own brain frequently says it to me; It isn't very helpful.
JKCalhoun 5y ago
Do you suffer from depression and wish that your employer would recognize it as an illness?
- t0mbstone 5y ago
  I suffer from depression and don't even want my employer to know. There is too much stigma against mental illness here in the USA.
rspeele 5y ago
It's objectively a privileged position to be able to do that and not become homeless, but I wouldn't wish for it. Have you ever had a day at work or during your schooling where, due to burnout, depression, anxiety, lack of direction, laziness, whatever... you just got nothing done? Maybe you wasted all your time reading/writing emails; browsing the web; etc? I have had some days like that. And if I worked in a factory or a fast food restaurant, I would look at that experience and say, "gee, sure would be nice to be able to sit around doing nothing all day". But those days weren't like a vacation, they sucked. I didn't get any enjoyment or relaxation out of it. I felt crappy all day and even worse at the end of the day for having accomplished nothing. Even days where there's a production emergency and I have to fix bugs under pressure from clients feel better than that. I've never taken 4 months off from work for mental health but I imagine it feels about like that...
- t0mbstone 5y ago
  I have been working my whole life. I have been working professionally as a web developer and software engineer since I was 13 years old. I am 37 years old with 24 years of professional experience. During that entire time, there were only a couple of periods where I had more than a month off of work. Each of those times were when I was in between jobs and was trying to find new work, so I don't really count those periods as vacations. I'm just so tired of the grind. I just want a long break to do nothing. I want to do nothing until I'm literally sick of doing nothing. I imagine that when/if that happened, I would be able to find my passion again. I'm not sure if it would look anything like the type of work I've been doing for years, but I agree with you. I realize that long term happiness is usually tied to creativity.
bigwavedave 5y ago
> Wow, I wish I could just go on sick leave for 4 months because I was feeling depressed... Well... If you're indeed depressed, I wish for that too. However, if you're actually healthy and just making a snarky comment, then I hope you never experience depression- it's hell. No amount of descriptive imagery or keen adjectives can ever convey what it actually feels like, so I understand how people who've never been in its jaws can be so dismissive. After all, just like it's hard to tell that stuffed inside a ballerina's blood-filled shoes are cramped, broken, _aching_ feet, it's hard to wrap your head around pain that isn't readily seen, much less try to empathize with the person feeling it. The only way I can think of to describe depression is to describe suicidal ideation: when you have a moment, go to your garage, get a hammer, and smash your thumb with it. Not a pleasant thought, right? I'd be willing to bet that if you were to legitimately try, you'd find it almost impossible; the instinct for self preservation is one of the most basic, powerful instincts. Now, imagine a situation where you're in so much pain that this instinct is completely overwhelmed and you actively try to kill yourself to stop it, a situation where you cannot believe you'll ever be able to be happy again, a situation that feels truly hopeless. That's depression. While suicidal ideation is one of the extremes, depression is something that drives a person to that point. In all honesty, I sincerely hope neither you nor your loved ones ever have to face such despair. "That they experienced loss is not a gain, and that they experienced pain is not a victory." But hey, I'm just some guy on the internet- YMMV.
- t0mbstone 5y ago
  I'm actually depressed, and have been for years. Working remotely in a room by myself for the last year hasn't helped. I haven't had a real vacation (more than a week or so of time off) in years. I have less than 2 weeks worth of PTO sick time accrued. I genuinely wish I had the option of taking 4 months of paid sick leave for mental health reasons. I'm pretty sure that would help me reset my mental state.

fossuser 5y ago

I wonder how much making being depressed part of your identity prevents you from getting better. I'm not dismissing the reality of it, but reinforcing it to yourself and others around you on a constant basis probably isn't helpful? Constantly ruminating on your depressed state probably isn't good either. Pretending everything is great probably isn't a good idea or likely even possible (or desirable?), but I'm not persuaded constantly talking about it is a healthy option either.

threwway 5y ago
I know some people who can talk about their psychological struggles and remain likeable (it's some kind of charisma superpower), but other people where it's just a massive bummer (myself included). Step number one of getting along with people has been masking my internal state where possible. That lets me get by. The endless pit of despair and hopelessness that long-term depression can present, as with many chronic illnesses, it can just be a massive downer (especially when there's literally nothing the other person can do - why burden them with knowledge of my pain more than necessary?). And I can be likeable and fun to be around, and I appreciate it when I know other people who are struggling internally manage to play along also in their own way [ I know it takes them a lot of effort and I appreciate it deeply ]. This is how making it work works for me. Though I guess I can appreciate the principled approach of the person writing the article, that would be a disaster for me given how I am (and I don't think it reflects badly on my social circles). I have to struggle to not be a happiness vampire, and this would tip the scales. >I’ve been in therapy on and off and I’m taking meds (and no, yoga, essential oils and exercise are not sufficient to treat mental illness) Often neither is medication.
- fossuser 5y ago
  > I know some people who can talk about their psychological struggles and remain likeable I'd argue this is the basis for all good standup comedy.
  - jstarfish 5y ago
    What's the one question you never want to ask a Munchhausen candidate? "How are you doing?"

draw_down 5y ago

Well, I hope this person tries to do something about their depression besides just talking about it. For their sake as well as the sake of everyone around them who is probably tired of hearing about it.

odyssey7 5y ago

I've seen very promising people lose their dreams to depression. Often times, I think back to one profoundly talented programmer who I met in Miami years ago, who is no longer with us. (When I met her and saw what she was working on, I was intimidated to see what a high schooler these days could do, and to be honest I breathed a sigh of relief when I found out she was an outlier.) What a tragedy, and what a loss that was for her community. In other cases, I've seen passionate, curious people fail out of school or work and never recover personally or professionally from it.

ganzuul 5y ago
Chances are there was nothing wrong with her. When you have the ability to see from miles away the odds stacked against you, sticking around takes a bit of insanity.
- ganzuul 5y ago
  This comment went from +3 votes to -4. How depressing.

wizzwizz4 5y ago

There're a lot of people in the comments here who don't seem to know what depression is. Depression isn't just “I'm sad all the time”. Functionally, depression is a reduction in the set of actions that one can take. For some, it can be bad enough that “fill out this form, make this phone call, write the reference number on the form then post it” is too much. No, there's no reason they shouldn't be able to do that. That's why it's called a mental illness. Sure, they could “just try harder” except oops, that's not on the list either. (See http://www.depressionquest.com/dqfinal.html http://www.depressionquest.com/dqfinal.html for a good analogy.) Many depressed people come up with psychological tricks to move necessary tasks from the “unavailable actions” category to the “available actions” category. Possibly the best one I've heard is the “shower heist”: it's not “taking a shower”, it's grand theft of the clean. If you think depression is “just laziness”, why would someone go to all the effort of reframing basic actions in this way? So please, none of that.

gverrilla 5y ago
I agree except for: >No, there's no reason they shouldn't be able to do that. That's why it's called a mental illness. That's not the reason it's called a mental illness. It's called an illness because it's a source of suffering. Also, of course there's a reason - otherwise it wouldn't happen.
smoldesu 5y ago
I think the larger sentiment (and you're welcome to correct me if I'm wrong) is that dealing with depressed people is tiring. I have a few friends who deal with chronic depression, and getting their input on things or checking up on them is always a production. I still greatly appreciate their position in my life, but my sanity (and patience) is finite. More often than not, I'm equally (if not more) helpless, which makes it extremely difficult to disengage or move the discussion forwards. I welcome an honest dialogue around mental health, but a dialogue requires two people to be dynamic. If the two become mutually incompatible, then there's effectively no way for me to contribute.
abnry 5y ago
> There're a lot of people in the comments here who don't seem to know what depression is. There is a lot of people who don't seem to know what depression is because no one really knows what is depression. It is complex, it is multi-faceted, it can be subtle, it can be overt. It varies from person to person. It varies in causes.

andreyk 5y ago

I am also in academia (a PhD student), and this resonates with me a lot. I got into major depressive episode by the end of last year (having had a few before that) , and was pretty unproductive until the end of March, which is then I took a month long vacation and moved back in with my parents to get back on my feet. Which I was able to do because I spoke openly about my mental health with my advisor and collaborators. And like this person, I shared my experience in a public blog post (https://www.andreykurenkov.com/writing/life/covid_depression/ https://www.andreykurenkov.com/writing/life/covid_depression...). I tend to agree that normalising being honest and open about depression is good - even just saying you were less productive and went on vacation due to it is good, because then others might see that as the healthy thing to do instead of as something that they can't consider. Granted, 'never not talk about depression' seems like it's overstating things, but on balance I think this blog post makes a good point.

obvthrowaway32 5y ago

I used to have depression from early to mid adulthood that I could not shake off. Many times, it felt like it would never go away, almost like it was an integral part of me. When I was deep in my hole, I thought thoughts like "don't kid yourself, you're always depressed, this is how it is", and I certainly did not have any reason hoping I would some day suddenly not be depressed. But while it was not sudden at all, I am happy to say that I am now, by all means of assessment, not a person suffering of depression anymore. I think in my case I was "lucky" that I did not want to take medication against it, any at all, and that my causes of depression did not require it. With a very big warning: It was lucky for my situation, and my apparent causes of depression. I do not want to assert that medication cannot help. My reasons for not taking medication were partly misguided, partly right (again, for my specific case). For example, I had the fear that medication would change my "personality" beyond removing depression, and I did not want to change my personality, because I liked the "good" part of my life, in the intervals where I was not suffering from depression too much (I say "too much" because I'm not sure I was ever really happy during that time). I don't think that's how the medication works, though. So that left talk therapy, a lot of it. Years of it, sometimes interesting, often difficult. And through all of that, I discovered that I had reasons to be depressed, but I was very far away from seeing and understanding those reasons just on my own. They manifested as "generic" depression instead. Getting to those reasons and talking about them straight cured me. Part of it might have just been understanding my emotions at all. I am probably very lucky in that regard, going from "almost always depressed, sometimes too much to properly function" to "basically cured" by finding out what actually bothered me. Not everything is rosy now, life does not work that way. Sometimes life situations make me sad, overwhelmed, even desperate, and may still send me into a depressive hole for some time. But when that happens nowadays, I can always attribute a specific reasons to it. I am then depressed because depressing things are happening, and it is an "appropriate" reaction. To go back to the beginning, understanding the obvious reason why you are currently depressed entirely removes the "this is a part of me" aspect. Nobody thinks a person mourning for a loved one suffers from "depression" as a condition, for example. I think I learned a new skill. Second disclaimer: I can only speak for what I went through, and I am not a professional. It is entirely possible that your depression has other causes, and cannot be fixed by talk therapy. For some, knowing that it worked for me might instill hope, though.

gverrilla 5y ago

I've noticed it's very common to swap 'sadness' and 'depression' in american english. In brazilian portuguese we have an abreviation for "depressão" which is "deprê". Depression is the illness and "deprê" is slang for "sad" and they do not mix. It seems to me by equating both the american english is making it harder for people to realize the difference (which is tremendous).

smegcicle 5y ago
I wonder if the pt-br words being so similar makes the difference more explicit, that perhaps the english words being so obviously different, makes it easier to forget? if the topic would ever come up seriously, most everyone would agree that depression is different than regular sadness- but in casual conversation it sometimes seems to warp into depression being a kind of adult form of sadness, almost as if sadness is just for children...
Zababa 5y ago
The hard part for me is trying to figure out if "I was depressed" means "I had depression" or "I was experiencing sadness".

overgard 5y ago

I've quit a job because I was going through bad depression before and I didn't think I could do a good job. I even asked for part time work, so I understand where she's coming from, but.. In my opinion, this attitude she's portraying is a dangerous attitude to have. This victimhood seems core to her identity. I'm not trying to shame the condition, I'm trying to say that the condition shouldn't become some core part of your identity. Real phenomenon: Have you ever heard of cancer patients becoming depressed after they've gone into remission, because being a "cancer patient" essentially became a core of their identity, and once they no longer had it they became lost? You don't want your identity to be "depressed person", because the last thing you want is to start feeling like a fraud when the fog starts to lift. Also, I'm just going to say, it's ok to want your employer to have empathy for you, but you also have to have empathy for them. If you're consistently telling them "well, so, I'm a good employee, but I might drop off the face of the earth for 4 months at a time".. what are they supposed to do?

TheAdamAndChe 5y ago
You see this a lot nowadays. A lot of social media sites are biased towards positivity and reaffirmation, but what happens is that people get lots of positive feedback for identities and mentalities that are counter productive to a good life.
vergessenmir 5y ago
I agree wholeheartedly while being empathetic with what she's going through. The identification is, as you say, dangerous. Most people have depressive episodes at least once in their lifetime, and it can leave just as suddenly as it comes. It makes me wonder if this intense identification slows her recovery or even worse blinds her from seeing its cause; if in this case it has to do with how she is living her life in terms of family, work and social life. I hope she gets better.
shkkmo 5y ago
I didn't see anything in the article about seeing herself as a victim or it being ”core to her identity." I think you might be projecting here. In fact, I see her desire and efforts to normalize depression as an attempt to move away from victimhood. > You don't want your identity to be "depressed person", because the last thing you want is to start feeling like a fraud when the fog starts to lift. You also don't want to assume because the fog lifted, you should completely disassemble the support mechanisms you have built. Like with cancer remission, there is a signifant chance of relapse that can be somewhat mitigated by good monitoring amd timely interventions.

mahathu 5y ago

> although the Covid-19 pandemic definitely hasn’t helped If anything, people who have experienced depression before would be more capable and resilient when dealing with the pandemic restrictions. Because they're used to dealing with negativity. I know at least that was the case with me and some friends of mine who are also affected.

fastasucan 5y ago
Also, there can be some peace in knowing the whole world is shit down, and everyone is sitting at home surfing the web, for those who struggle with lonelyness.
- norvvryo 5y ago
  For a while, yeah. After a few months of seclusion, I felt completely trapped with no way out. Knowing you're not alone in your situation doesn't make being alone in your life feel any better. I had started working on my social skills at the end of 2019. I began going out again in January or February of this year and I still haven't made back the progress I lost during the lockdown.

underseacables 5y ago

When I had depression I found it very therapeutic to talk about it, to put it out in the open, but I also ran into a lot of people who couldn’t stop talking about their depression. at some point talking about your depression is just as depressing to others as the depression itself

opheliate 5y ago
For me, when I'm capable of doing so, being around others in person is one of the best ways to cope with my depression. The pandemic has been massively destructive for my mental health because of this.

DoreenMichele 5y ago

From what I gather, there are some studies that show that dietary intervention helps and that piece of it seems to boil down to "some foods promote brain inflammation and this makes depression worse." My personal opinion is that a lot of what gets currently classified as mental illness would be best seen as a somatopsychic side effects of actual physical illness. I have a really serious and incurable medical condition. Somatopsychic side effects are a big part of my life. In many cases, I have figured out "This specific mental or emotional thing indicates this specific nutrient deficiency." And the treatment ends up being "Eat foods high in that nutrient." Having said that, I think a large part of mental illness is really "you are a product of your social environment and the world can sometimes be amazingly talented at driving you crazy." But to whatever degree mental illness has roots in actual biology, I really think it should be viewed as illness not mental illness.

dexwiz 5y ago
Agreed. Recently I have found probiotics to be a correlated with my mood. Stormy thoughts seem to links to my stormy gut.

beforeolives 5y ago

> I talk about my mental health to anyone who will listen, and also try to those who won’t. I don’t launch into the story of my life and whole disease history but I need everyone to understand that depression is something that affects every aspect of my life. I can't relate to this at all. Maybe it's a big difference in personality, culture or place in life, but the last thing I want to do is to openly share things that are very personal with people that I barely know.

schroeding 5y ago
I can kinda relate to it, but I also understand you. I don't know what the author experienced before being so outgoing with it, but I assume there was a phase of "putting up a happy facade and just carry on". And thats really bad, probably worse than "over-correcting" and being very open about it, atleast for yourself, IMO. :-/ I would never open myself to co-workers like this. I can't even tell most of my friends, because I don't want to burden them with it. But a part of me would still like to, just wants to shout it out and let them know (but can't). Because having nobody to support you with this but yourself and some medication is... not ideal. A "facade" like this, where you don't let people know that you're not fine, is pretty exhausting in the long run. It's like you're a robot, mechanically trying to keep everybody from worrying. I don't know if the other extreme is any better, but if it works for her and her environment, good for her. ^^

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bufordtwain 5y ago

I can relate to this. She is bravely talking about a condition that is still somewhat taboo (mental health) in order to 1) help others understand her problem and 2) make it less taboo. This potentially helps her and others in a similar position. I do the same thing when talking about my son who is struggling with addiction, though I am very selective about who I discuss it with. It's surprising how many people have someone they know in the same position or are in a similar position themselves. But you have to talk about it before you find this out. Talking about it helps you (assuming the person you are talking to has some empathy) and gradually makes it more acceptable for the issue to be discussed in public. Good for her.

jokoon 5y ago

The thing is, I'm pretty sure 15 to 30% of the population experience depression. Severity varies, but it's difficult for psychiatry to draw a line between melancholy and depression. I'm pretty certain there are depressed people who are somehow functional and have unhealthy ways to cope and are able to go through it. But it doesn't mean that people who are functional can give lessons to those who are not. Talking about depression is okay, and medicating is good, but in my view there are way more people with depression than we like to admit. So talking about it it'sy okay, but it's more about being able to admit weakness. We don't like to show vulnerability and weakness, but we should.

Zababa 5y ago
That's pretty much me. I have a few friends that have severe depression, some with suicide attempts, some that ruminate a lot at night and have their minds go to scary places. For me I just keep putting on pounds and sometimes I don't sleep at all for a night, but I can usually function "normally". I've had a few bad experiences with psychologist when I was younger which makes me a bit sceptict of them and I don't like opening up to other people. I should probably try some medication but I don't know if I have it in me.

cupcake-unicorn 5y ago

Ok, there's a lot to unpack here. The thing that people are saying about clinging to an identity has truth to it and it can hold you back. However this is the way I look at it and interpret it. Depression is often an invisible illness. There are physical invisible illness too. Depression is a disability just like any other. It is very possible to a form of chronic treatment resistant depression that lasts your whole life. There is nothing dangerous about "normalizing" the fact that you can have a mental illness that will never go away. My 20s were awful because people who didn't know me were constantly trying to tell me this was a phase or I would "get over it". I didn't. Once I learned to embrace that and not listen to those people I started recovering further. However it still never went away, but I never expect it to go away. It is what it is, it's a pain sometimes, just like having a physical disability is, there are more steps to take, and more things you have to watch for but if you have some support and educate yourself you find ways to navigate it just the way someone with a physical disability does. As you get older you find more areas in life that are not for you, or you need more help in, and so on, and it gets better with age to some extent because of having more of these experiences to draw from and being secure about what your needs are and sticking up for them. It can be lonely as a lot of people try to tell you something else but if you know certain environments lead to hospitalization for you, you shut that out and stop engaging with that crap anymore. So as someone with chronic TRD I look at what she's saying like this. When you're in "recovery" (I kind of hate that term with mental illness but it is what it is) your environment is very, very important to you. Let's forget the psych part of it now. Is someone with a physical mobility disability going to thrive if they're in a 6th floor apartment with no elevator that's not ADA compliant? No. No question. The disability is relevant to that situation because it's not a good fit for them and will contribute to worsening symptoms. If someone is physically in a wheelchair or physically has a cane or whatever someone may step in and be like, hey, yeah this apartment isn't ADA compliant, let's find you something else, whatever. But with invisible disabilities you don't have anything to go off of. Now let's go back to that same analogy with someone with depression. People you surround yourself with, again, your environment, can heavily influence how this disorder plays out. Just because someone is "nice" and well meaning, it doesn't mean they are safe. Let me say that again. Someone can be the nicest person in the world, but not safe for you and your symptoms. This is not a value judgement, just like the apartment example is not a value judgement. It's not a good fit and it's better for everyone as someone with a disability that you have a good fit and environment for your disability as things are hard enough already. But depression is an invisible disability. And depression is stigmatized. And now we can throw gender or other things into the mix. Maybe we don't want to tell someone about this, or people at our job, or whatever. There are different reasons for this. But at the end of the day you will run into disability related issues and people won't be able to contextualize them as disability related issues, and they will snowball, and you most likely will suffer as a result. By being upfront and honest about your disability it's the same thing as having a wheelchair or a cane, although it's more stigmatized and less well understood in this case. In society we are at the point where we look down on people making fun of those that are physically disabled or not assisting them but it still happens to a crazy extent. A lot of the work is already done in that case. Even if people don't understand physical disability they are pressured at least to not be an asshole and pressured via ADA to help people out. The reality is that this does get a lot trickier and people who are really just surface level pressured by society and legal issues to help someone out in the workplace, well, you're going to run into a wall at some point with a physical disability too. By talking about your disability it's a litmus test to gauge what people are "safe" for you. It will help you get further in your personal and professional life if you have a feeling for who will be helping you because they either have a better understanding (usually people personally impacted by going through it themselves or having a loved one) or someone who has an open enough mind to want to learn about it. The reality is that a lot of people don't fit into those categories. And in many many personal relationships and environments you will fail if you try to get people to understand who don't. I'm guessing some of the people who are having a reaction to this article are people who just are in the camp of not being "safe" people and need to think about it more or spend time with a loved one who is affected by these things to understand this stuff further. Use the physical disability analogy I used to challenge your views on this subject. People who don't understand this often think I'm passing value judgements on "perfectly nice" people. I'm not. I just need to cultivate the people around me in the same way that I need to cultivate a space that's physically accessible to me if I had a physical disability. The people you surround yourself can effect your emotions and depression is an emotional disability. If my health suffers when I'm around someone it's not going to do us any good for me to force it for their benefit or for appearances, especially when the risk for me is that I could end up hospitalized. You need to keep very strict boundaries as someone with a disability like this and since people don't contextualize it in the same way that they do a physical disability people are often berated and misunderstood for it, a bit like I see in the comments here. She needs to keep herself safe. It can be that you get wrapped up into the identity thing and I can't speak for her but being able bodied/disabled is just as relevant to your outward way of interacting to the world as is your gender expression or so on and you can't leave it off the table, nor should you really if you want to be healthy.

rufus_foreman 5y ago

>> I talk about my mental health to anyone who will listen, and also try to those who won’t. Sorry, that's just plain rude.