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As I get older, I do not understand how known scammers, especially the ones that raise millions over and over, get support time and time again. If not in jail,

As I get older, I do not understand how known scammers, especially the ones that raise millions over and over, get support time and time again. If not in jail, why do they still get jobs. I know some who just told me in my face that they were scammers of millions (or simply were happy screwing people even with viable ways out) and they raise money again, screw people again etc. People do use Google right? Due diligence?

Semaphor 5y ago
I can recommend checking out Reddit’s /r/cryptocurrency and branching out to smaller altcoint subreddits. Read the comments. There are thousands of people just looking for that one weird trick to get rich. As a sidenote, I almost always got out just before a crash by when I was playing with altcoins by waiting for people to get over the top enthusiastic in their subreddit and then selling everything. Might as well have been luck though, so don’t try it ;)
- ramesh31 5y ago
  >There are thousands of people just looking for that one weird trick to get rich. Increasingly I think they're the smart ones. I'm sitting here working my butt off for a few thousand dollars a month, while these guys raised hundreds of millions of dollars without even being able to grammar check a sentence. Who's the real sucker?
  - Semaphor 5y ago
    I was talking about the users giving them money, not the scammers/con artists.
  - tluyben2 5y ago
    Well, most these talks are marketcap for their coin or token. That is not actual value. Some of the biggest ICOs got only a fraction out of them or nothing at all. They still get a lot for free scamming others. Just do not think that a 100m$ ICO means they raised that. They cannot get anything close to that out.
  - kzrdude 5y ago
    Don't compare yourself to just the ones that got lucky, that's the big fallacy of trading.
- tluyben2 5y ago
  I was not even talking crypto but 'normal' CEOs. I mean a famous one was the guy (do not think he was the CEO but close to him?) from Groupon: he was a known scammer and yet, he gets bingo every time. And many many more. Edit: whoops I never knew what became of Groupon but I see it was a massive scam altogether. Seems the investors could have known that from the first time they met the founders by just typing some names into Google. How does that work?
  - 52-6F-62 5y ago
    Reminds me of Kevin O'Leary. Buddy toppled a software industry at the height of the first internet boom. That's either a special kind of incompetence or something worse. They almost always seem to get bingo; the companies and the people that rely on them take the hit. https://www.nationalobserver.com/2016/02/18/news/did-kevin-oleary-once-wipe-out-entire-industry https://www.nationalobserver.com/2016/02/18/news/did-kevin-o...
    - tluyben2 5y ago
      Ah yes, thank you, good one. It was a gold rush not unlike now with cryptocoins. Everyone shouted 'this time it is different' which I hear a lot now again. Things do not keep growing. Covid delayed the real crisis. I digress: yes people like this: how can you not do a basic amount of dd and at least ask some people about them?
ramesh31 5y ago
>As I get older, I do not understand how known scammers, especially the ones that raise millions over and over, get support time and time again. Con artists are good at what they do. People are a thousand times easier to hack than a database server. And there's no security patches for human emotion; we are full of 10,000 year old zero days.
- tluyben2 5y ago
  Agreed, but if you are a VC you do basic DD right? And if there is a reddit group calling your new star CEO a scammer, you might check a bit? But yes, full agree.
  - bombcar 5y ago
    I suspect that many VCs don’t do due diligence beyond “someone we trust is already in” and others assume they can get out before it collapses.
    - ramesh31 5y ago
      It's also a calculated risk. Every ICO in existence has its' detractors. But with so much free funny money floating around, the calculation is heavily outweighed towards FOMO.
  - rchaud 5y ago
    The basic DD that a crypto VC does is to figure out just how big the market for suckers is at this point in time.
opsecweather 5y ago
Our IronBank (lending), IronSwap (pegged assets-focused swap) have been developed already and will be live for testing soon. Iron stablecoin v2 will come later. https://ironfinance.medium.com/iron-finance-post-mortem-17-june-2021-6a4e9ccf23f5 https://ironfinance.medium.com/iron-finance-post-mortem-17-j...
nazgulnarsil 5y ago
The basic way a con works isn't by presenting itself as not-a-con but by presenting you as being in-on-the-con. Lots of overlap there with semi-legit (though taking advantage of stupidity) companies.
api 5y ago
They have charisma. Charisma is mind control. I'm pretty convinced that charisma can literally override the rational mind. I've seen some pretty amazing examples of charismatic people spewing absolute nonsense with the audience hanging on every word like they are a genius. Put far more interesting ideas in the mouth of someone with no charisma and they are ignored. Humans are merely clever. We are not truly intelligent.
- krapp 5y ago
  Do you consider yourself intelligent, or merely clever? Are you a slack-jawed puppet of the charismatics, or is it just everyone else?
  - api 5y ago
    Honestly? I think I'm occasionally intelligent but usually just clever. I was being a bit hyperbolic for effect.
  - perl4ever 5y ago
    >Are you a slack-jawed puppet of the charismatics, or is it just everyone else? To make this more than just a rhetorical question, one could take a poll - who took Adam Neumann seriously, because he seems to me like the epitome of a "charismatic" who walked away stupendously wealthy from a fiasco (WeWork) without serious penalties. I don't think I'm smarter than everyone else, but I also don't think Neumann and WeWork were anywhere near something that made sense to me.

Semaphor 5y ago

I can recommend checking out Reddit’s /r/cryptocurrency and branching out to smaller altcoint subreddits. Read the comments. There are thousands of people just looking for that one weird trick to get rich. As a sidenote, I almost always got out just before a crash by when I was playing with altcoins by waiting for people to get over the top enthusiastic in their subreddit and then selling everything. Might as well have been luck though, so don’t try it ;)

ramesh31 5y ago
>There are thousands of people just looking for that one weird trick to get rich. Increasingly I think they're the smart ones. I'm sitting here working my butt off for a few thousand dollars a month, while these guys raised hundreds of millions of dollars without even being able to grammar check a sentence. Who's the real sucker?
- Semaphor 5y ago
  I was talking about the users giving them money, not the scammers/con artists.
- tluyben2 5y ago
  Well, most these talks are marketcap for their coin or token. That is not actual value. Some of the biggest ICOs got only a fraction out of them or nothing at all. They still get a lot for free scamming others. Just do not think that a 100m$ ICO means they raised that. They cannot get anything close to that out.
- kzrdude 5y ago
  Don't compare yourself to just the ones that got lucky, that's the big fallacy of trading.
tluyben2 5y ago
I was not even talking crypto but 'normal' CEOs. I mean a famous one was the guy (do not think he was the CEO but close to him?) from Groupon: he was a known scammer and yet, he gets bingo every time. And many many more. Edit: whoops I never knew what became of Groupon but I see it was a massive scam altogether. Seems the investors could have known that from the first time they met the founders by just typing some names into Google. How does that work?
- 52-6F-62 5y ago
  Reminds me of Kevin O'Leary. Buddy toppled a software industry at the height of the first internet boom. That's either a special kind of incompetence or something worse. They almost always seem to get bingo; the companies and the people that rely on them take the hit. https://www.nationalobserver.com/2016/02/18/news/did-kevin-oleary-once-wipe-out-entire-industry https://www.nationalobserver.com/2016/02/18/news/did-kevin-o...
  - tluyben2 5y ago
    Ah yes, thank you, good one. It was a gold rush not unlike now with cryptocoins. Everyone shouted 'this time it is different' which I hear a lot now again. Things do not keep growing. Covid delayed the real crisis. I digress: yes people like this: how can you not do a basic amount of dd and at least ask some people about them?

ramesh31 5y ago

>As I get older, I do not understand how known scammers, especially the ones that raise millions over and over, get support time and time again. Con artists are good at what they do. People are a thousand times easier to hack than a database server. And there's no security patches for human emotion; we are full of 10,000 year old zero days.

tluyben2 5y ago
Agreed, but if you are a VC you do basic DD right? And if there is a reddit group calling your new star CEO a scammer, you might check a bit? But yes, full agree.
- bombcar 5y ago
  I suspect that many VCs don’t do due diligence beyond “someone we trust is already in” and others assume they can get out before it collapses.
  - ramesh31 5y ago
    It's also a calculated risk. Every ICO in existence has its' detractors. But with so much free funny money floating around, the calculation is heavily outweighed towards FOMO.
- rchaud 5y ago
  The basic DD that a crypto VC does is to figure out just how big the market for suckers is at this point in time.

opsecweather 5y ago

Our IronBank (lending), IronSwap (pegged assets-focused swap) have been developed already and will be live for testing soon. Iron stablecoin v2 will come later. https://ironfinance.medium.com/iron-finance-post-mortem-17-june-2021-6a4e9ccf23f5 https://ironfinance.medium.com/iron-finance-post-mortem-17-j...

nazgulnarsil 5y ago

The basic way a con works isn't by presenting itself as not-a-con but by presenting you as being in-on-the-con. Lots of overlap there with semi-legit (though taking advantage of stupidity) companies.

api 5y ago

They have charisma. Charisma is mind control. I'm pretty convinced that charisma can literally override the rational mind. I've seen some pretty amazing examples of charismatic people spewing absolute nonsense with the audience hanging on every word like they are a genius. Put far more interesting ideas in the mouth of someone with no charisma and they are ignored. Humans are merely clever. We are not truly intelligent.

krapp 5y ago
Do you consider yourself intelligent, or merely clever? Are you a slack-jawed puppet of the charismatics, or is it just everyone else?
- api 5y ago
  Honestly? I think I'm occasionally intelligent but usually just clever. I was being a bit hyperbolic for effect.
- perl4ever 5y ago
  >Are you a slack-jawed puppet of the charismatics, or is it just everyone else? To make this more than just a rhetorical question, one could take a poll - who took Adam Neumann seriously, because he seems to me like the epitome of a "charismatic" who walked away stupendously wealthy from a fiasco (WeWork) without serious penalties. I don't think I'm smarter than everyone else, but I also don't think Neumann and WeWork were anywhere near something that made sense to me.