5 ms·

Most Americans are grossly underpaid. The subject of pay has no bearing on this article, or the parent comment, though. Edit: Reading comprehension issue on my

Most Americans are grossly underpaid. The subject of pay has no bearing on this article, or the parent comment, though. Edit: Reading comprehension issue on my part...I wrote this comment before my first cup of coffee. As others have pointed out, the parent comment does mention pay, and I was wrong about the parent comment. I stand by the core message in my comment about pay in general, but clearly I missed the mark here.

willcipriano 5y ago
The parent comment says they are well paid, the BLS has police officers and detectives grouped together at 67k per year. For contrast the often cited as underpaid high school teacher is listed at 62k. The average across all occupations is 41k.
- sjg007 5y ago
  Base pay vs overtime. Cops work a lot of overtime.
- LanceH 5y ago
  Police often have benefits packages that few would try to negotiate with a straight face. They typically have an excellent pension and full medical. They also typically rack up a lot of overtime. $67k/year isn't bad when your savings and medical is already taken care of and you still have the prospect of overtime or privately hired side gigs.
  - willcipriano 5y ago
    The same is true about teachers with the exception of the side gigs and overtime, however summers off allow for similar casual employment opportunities.
    - cmendel 5y ago
      A large number of teachers need second jobs, that hardly strikes me as highly-paid especially as many(most?) teachers have master's degrees. Further, "summers off" is not really correct given curriculum development, PD, grading and the like which often extend far past the end of the semester.
      - willcipriano 5y ago
        Most teachers only have a bachelor's degree according to BLS, the same level of education required to be a detective. Most of my high school teachers used the same curriculum year after year, even including the USSR on maps they would hand out with instructions to ignore it handwritten on the top of the page. None did any grading over the summer as school was out and no work is being produced by students.
        sudosysgen 5y ago
        Most teachers have a bachelors, most cops are not detectives. I don't know about you but the curriculum absolutely wasn't the same each year with my teachers, it couldn't be. Beyond that, overtime is paid for cops and unpaid for teachers. It's true that they don't do much work over the summer, though they have to come in 2-3 weeks in the summer more than the students.
        willcipriano 5y ago
        My point here is that groups in the US often say either teachers are underpaid and cops are overpaid or the other way around but a simple Google search shows they make about the same. I've never found someone making this claim that could tell me how much either made, just that it was either too much or too little. If you feel teachers are undervalued, fine but teachers being underpaid and cops overpaid simply isn't logically consistent.
        kenjackson 5y ago
        > If you feel teachers are undervalued, fine but teachers being underpaid and cops overpaid simply isn't logically consistent. I'm not making this claim. But this statement has no logical problems, at least not as stated. Just because they might be paid a similar amount (or even if teachers are paid more) doesn't mean that the statement isn't logically consistent. For example, Lebron James gets X and Nico Mannion gets paid Y (which is much less than X). Many still argue that Lebron is underpaid and Nico maybe overpaid. They deliver different value, and there's the notion of scarcity to provide the level service they provide. If you think the average teacher (or some percentage of teachers) provides more value then the average cop, then you could make that statement and it not be logically inconsistent. Unfortunately both have civil servant types of roles, which are hard to valuate in terms of financial impact.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  Becoming a teacher requires significantly more education than a police officer. In addition, teachers work long, unpaid hours often to create classes and to correct assignments.
- kenjackson 5y ago
  Yes, they are well paid. At least in Seattle where this event occurred. The entry level salary for a police officer is $84k/year (http://www.seattle.gov/police/police-jobs/salary-and-benefits#income http://www.seattle.gov/police/police-jobs/salary-and-benefit...). I also think teacher's need to be held to a higher bar. Not that they do a bad job on average, but when they do there appears to be little accountability. But that's completely irrelevant to the article.
Glavnokoman 5y ago
Can you read?
- dang 5y ago
  Please stop posting flamebait and/or unsubstantive comments to HN. We ban that sort of account because we're trying for at least a bit of a different internet discussion here. Personal attacks are particularly not allowed, so please don't do that again—regardless of how wrong anyone else is or you feel they are. You may not feel you owe them better but you definitely owe this community better if you're participating in it. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
torstenvl 5y ago
>>> They are well paid and in a position of great authority. >> I would argue that they are absolutely nowhere near paid enough > The subject of pay has no bearing on . . . the parent comment
- haswell 5y ago
  No ill intent, and my comment completely missed the mark. I edited my comment.

willcipriano 5y ago

The parent comment says they are well paid, the BLS has police officers and detectives grouped together at 67k per year. For contrast the often cited as underpaid high school teacher is listed at 62k. The average across all occupations is 41k.

sjg007 5y ago
Base pay vs overtime. Cops work a lot of overtime.
LanceH 5y ago
Police often have benefits packages that few would try to negotiate with a straight face. They typically have an excellent pension and full medical. They also typically rack up a lot of overtime. $67k/year isn't bad when your savings and medical is already taken care of and you still have the prospect of overtime or privately hired side gigs.
- willcipriano 5y ago
  The same is true about teachers with the exception of the side gigs and overtime, however summers off allow for similar casual employment opportunities.
  - cmendel 5y ago
    A large number of teachers need second jobs, that hardly strikes me as highly-paid especially as many(most?) teachers have master's degrees. Further, "summers off" is not really correct given curriculum development, PD, grading and the like which often extend far past the end of the semester.
    - willcipriano 5y ago
      Most teachers only have a bachelor's degree according to BLS, the same level of education required to be a detective. Most of my high school teachers used the same curriculum year after year, even including the USSR on maps they would hand out with instructions to ignore it handwritten on the top of the page. None did any grading over the summer as school was out and no work is being produced by students.
      - sudosysgen 5y ago
        Most teachers have a bachelors, most cops are not detectives. I don't know about you but the curriculum absolutely wasn't the same each year with my teachers, it couldn't be. Beyond that, overtime is paid for cops and unpaid for teachers. It's true that they don't do much work over the summer, though they have to come in 2-3 weeks in the summer more than the students.
        willcipriano 5y ago
        My point here is that groups in the US often say either teachers are underpaid and cops are overpaid or the other way around but a simple Google search shows they make about the same. I've never found someone making this claim that could tell me how much either made, just that it was either too much or too little. If you feel teachers are undervalued, fine but teachers being underpaid and cops overpaid simply isn't logically consistent.
        kenjackson 5y ago
        > If you feel teachers are undervalued, fine but teachers being underpaid and cops overpaid simply isn't logically consistent. I'm not making this claim. But this statement has no logical problems, at least not as stated. Just because they might be paid a similar amount (or even if teachers are paid more) doesn't mean that the statement isn't logically consistent. For example, Lebron James gets X and Nico Mannion gets paid Y (which is much less than X). Many still argue that Lebron is underpaid and Nico maybe overpaid. They deliver different value, and there's the notion of scarcity to provide the level service they provide. If you think the average teacher (or some percentage of teachers) provides more value then the average cop, then you could make that statement and it not be logically inconsistent. Unfortunately both have civil servant types of roles, which are hard to valuate in terms of financial impact.
sudosysgen 5y ago
Becoming a teacher requires significantly more education than a police officer. In addition, teachers work long, unpaid hours often to create classes and to correct assignments.
kenjackson 5y ago
Yes, they are well paid. At least in Seattle where this event occurred. The entry level salary for a police officer is $84k/year (http://www.seattle.gov/police/police-jobs/salary-and-benefits#income http://www.seattle.gov/police/police-jobs/salary-and-benefit...). I also think teacher's need to be held to a higher bar. Not that they do a bad job on average, but when they do there appears to be little accountability. But that's completely irrelevant to the article.

Glavnokoman 5y ago

Can you read?

dang 5y ago
Please stop posting flamebait and/or unsubstantive comments to HN. We ban that sort of account because we're trying for at least a bit of a different internet discussion here. Personal attacks are particularly not allowed, so please don't do that again—regardless of how wrong anyone else is or you feel they are. You may not feel you owe them better but you definitely owe this community better if you're participating in it. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

torstenvl 5y ago

>>> They are well paid and in a position of great authority. >> I would argue that they are absolutely nowhere near paid enough > The subject of pay has no bearing on . . . the parent comment

haswell 5y ago
No ill intent, and my comment completely missed the mark. I edited my comment.