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Your product is a joke: lessons from improv to build better product
- wombatmobile 5y agoThis advice might be more compelling if it began with an explanation of what improv is, how it works, what can kill it, and why.
- fastball 5y agoIt literally does start with a brief explanation of improv?
- wombatmobile 5y agoIt does. And if it just included the golden rule of improv, and an explanation of why it is so powerful, we'd be all set to take this advice on board.
- birdyrooster 5y agoNo, but that would ruin everything.
- thunderbong 5y agoIt's right there in the second paragraph. It would have taken you less time if you had read that instead of commenting here!
- wombatmobile 5y agoExcept it isn’t in the second paragraph of TFA. https://kicp-workshops.uchicago.edu/eo2014/pdf/Tina-Feys-rules-of-improv.pdf https://kicp-workshops.uchicago.edu/eo2014/pdf/Tina-Feys-rul...
- Flow 5y agoI'd love to see a video demo of Improv. Off-topic: This site is blocked at my work. Classified as "adult". :-/ Anyone know why? :-)
- shinycode 5y agoMaybe because the background color is pink ? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- rolleiflex 5y agoNo joke, there’s a nontrivial change that’s it, with an expensive instance of ‘Norton Corporate SecurityWorks DeepLearning Firewall 3.0’ prefetching the URL and running ‘hot dog or not’ classifier on it.
- jsemrau 5y agoYes, it's a joke, but a joke that makes me money.
- tofukid 5y agoImportant to building great products and improv is reading the audience, and being creative in satisfying them. Eesel looks great. I love simple, focused tools.
- ZephyrBlu 5y agoI can't help but think that all these frameworks are just post-hoc rationalizations of success.
- amoghs 5y agoI totally get where you're coming from. The framework shown in the blog isn't meant to be a "step by step" guide to building product. In fact, this framework isn't even always followed in improv. And to be honest, the improv analogy isn't essential to communicate the lessons either (to build with focus etc.) It's just a fun comparison, and I think you get a better appreciation of both crafts from it :)
- Grustaf 5y agoWorse: posts like this are just poorly disguised marketing. I miss the days when ads were just a bit of text describing the product and asking you to consider buying it.
- WA 5y agoAds != marketing. You can still have your ads. The days you're describing never existed. Everything is marketing.
- Grustaf 5y agoThere was a time when companies only used plain text ads for marketing. No brand consultants, no content marketing, no tracking. It lasted until WW1 or so.
- marcus_holmes 5y agoI always loved Australia's "shouty bloke" ads, which only really died in the 90's. Typically, they consisted of a beer-bellied "true blue" Aussie, nominally the owner/founder of the company, yelling at the camera about whatever product that his company sold. Fast cut to lots of pictures of stuff for sale. End. Genius
- andi999 5y agoThe guy is called Eric Ries not Eric Reis.
- amoghs 5y agoAh yeah good catch! Thanks.
- lleims 5y agoGood read! Eesel looks great :)
- hadrien01 5y agoI'd like to try Eesel, is Firefox compatibility on the roadmap?
- julienzmiro 5y agoThat's definitely on the roadmap (as well as a Safari version) but we can't really commit on a date yet.
- noduerme 5y agoI kinda think a product in search of a market (or worldview, or monetization strategy) is a much more beautiful thing, and a more disruptive and interesting thing, and more likely to lead to an interesting culture, than a product that has nailed down every aspect of its target audience and marketing strategy before launching. "Base Reality" as defined here is a post-facto attempt to create a "thesis" around things like Airbnb or Coinbase that evolved from startups and are still grappling with their base reality in situ as it evolves. What these companies may have is an ability to switch from one "base reality" to another, depending on what's successful. This article leaves that out of the picture. Surprising, for someone who's an acolyte of improv. Really, the most beautiful pieces are the ones where even the performers have no idea where it's going to end up. NOT surprising for someone who misunderstands both comedy and business.
- amoghs 5y agoIt's definitely not some strict linear flow. Sometimes you just have a cool idea that you want to explore. You can then work backwards to find your base reality. You do need to inevitably find a base reality to really build a business. You also don't need some 'perfect' base reality before you find some game. An improv show would be pretty boring if the characters were going into unnecessary detail about themselves, before finally finding something funny. In fact, you want to be establishing your base reality as fast as you can, with only the needed details, to leave more time for the game. I think you're spot on that the most beautiful pieces are unexpected. I think that's a key thing that makes improv so beautiful. This is what you get by 'exploring' and 'heightening' the game, and I touched on that in the post. By building on each other's ideas with some kind of focus, you're able to go places no one expects.
- lbriner 5y agoI think it depends on the product/idea. If you have gone straight to "renting out spare rooms" then you are also going straight to the sale rather than the marketing. If you are instead thinking like "I'd love to do something with electric cars", you are more likely to pitch expertise and possibly something less specific to try and feel for where the real value might be. Plenty of people already know a gap in the market and plenty of others think that just because they like their idea, a market will magically appear. I have worked for both.
- tudorw 5y agohttps://www.learnimprov.com/ https://www.learnimprov.com/ is a fantastic resource for anyone wanting to learn improv, must have taken them ages to come up with that domain name.
- habosa 5y agoThis seems like a good place to recommend one of the best books I've ever read: "Impro" by Keith Johnstone https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/306940.Impro https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/306940.Impro It's a book about improv but it's also the most insightful thing I've ever read about human social behavior. Even if you have no interest in acting, it will help you understand yourself and others.
- mesaframe 5y agoI felt it was more of an advertisment book than anything else. Author kept on praising his technique after every other paragraph or so.
- lkrubner 5y agoThis book is fantastic. Keith Johnstone was at the heart of the London improv scene in the 1960s when groups like Monty Python's Flying Circus were emerging. I used to attend a lot of improv workshops and the professional actors I knew all recommended this book to me.
- bravura 5y agoIs there no kindle version of it? I can't find it.
- sweetdreamerit 5y agohttps://www.amazon.com/Impro-Improvisation-Theatre-Performance-Books-ebook-dp-B01L92DOJQ/dp/B01L92DOJQ/ https://www.amazon.com/Impro-Improvisation-Theatre-Performan...
- melvinroest 5y agoThere's one concept in that book about redirecting responsibility. I think it was a tangential remark, but the idea that one could redirect responsibility by simply claiming that someone else was doing xyz as opposed to you was illuminating. I think it had to do with making people at ease.
- limmeau 5y agoSo what about the other improv principles... "Is my partner having a good time": Make your partners look good. That is usually a good idea in any team. "Find the earliest end". That would mean don't ever maintain an old product because there's nothing interesting in it... "Yes and" principle: you accept the ideas that your fellow players introduced and build on top of them. For example, "Backend moved their data store to a novel distributed document store they read about on Twitter -- Yes, And we'll let the frontend run in a JS-emulated Browser-in-a-Browser!". I see that being applied, but I'm not sure it's good advice.
- testudovictoria 5y agoAnalogies work until they don't. They're a tool break down concepts or to help re-frame a way of thinking. When analogies stop being useful, stop using them. With that being said, I feel like there's some nuance being missed. "Find the earliest end" is about keeping ideas flowing for creativity's sake. There is only so much mileage out of an idea before it becomes stale (exceptions withstanding [skip to about the 1 minute mark])[0]. The earliest end isn't permanent either. Troupes and groups revisit ideas all of the time. "Yes and..." doesn't mean that every idea needs to run its course at the detriment of the group. It means to explore the idea to see if it leads anywhere fruitful. If it doesn't, bail. The Office[1] showcases this where Michael pretends to have a gun during an improv group. It ruins the flow of everyone else's idea, because his idea has a clear, expected ending. It's OK to see where a fresh-faced dev's idea might take the project. That doesn't mean they have creative control. [0]: https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/segments/161754-repeat https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/segments/16175... [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6wY9OwqJ2A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6wY9OwqJ2A
- marcus_holmes 5y agoI see the "yes and" principle being about customer interaction. You never tell your customer they're wrong, you always agree with them and build on what they told you they wanted.
- Kiro 5y agoI don't understand the "unusual insight" for Eesel, which also happens to be the blog's product. Canva: Design tools are made for designers -> Non designers have design needs too. Makes sense. Coinbase: Some people say crypto is the future -> Everyday people will want to buy crypto. Also makes sense. Eesel: It's hard to find docs -> People often just refer back to docs. What? Looks like a nice product though!
- amoghs 5y agoA tad late but I missed this before. You're spot on, we (ironically) didn't do a good job at explaining our own game haha. I think it's roughly: "It's hard to find docs -> A filter on your browser history helps a lot"
- kevando 5y agowow what a great post! i think you totally nailed it. the KEY to a funny imorov scene is the normal base reality. there’s like one joke before matt foley comes out of the basement. you nailed this with your observation, yeah finding my docs is a pain. and it’s super important not to derail from your game. key and peele are the masters of this. substitute teacher is literally one joke over and over and it’s hilarious. they’re also masters of the unusual thing. that’s where i might challenge you with eesl. a search bar in browser extension is not unusual.
- EB-Barrington 5y agoThis is an advertisement, ask me how I know.
- shash7 5y agoIf this was an ad then I'm sold! Using it right now - definitely gonna tell my project manage about this next week. I'll be very curious to know how are you guys going to monetize.
- amoghs 5y agoHaha thanks! If you're curious, we're keen to monetise with a 'Team' plan eventually. We intend to keep everything that's there today free.
- lbriner 5y agoImprov is an interesting take but it sounds maybe like an over-specific take on telling a compelling story. Most pitches I have seen (maybe 50-100) fail in a number of common areas: (edit: I mean the ones that did fail, not that all of these failed!) 1) Too long 2) Mentioning specifics that are irrelevant at this stage 3) Not targetting the pitch at the audience (e.g. investors, potential customers) 4) Complicated or attention grabbing slides (unless that is specifically what you are doing for your pitch) I also think there are generally easy solutions to these that most people can use. 1) Video your pitch and watch it back. You will spot things that you can't see in the 1st-person 2) Get someone you trust to pretend to be a certain persona to match your target audience (the closer to that job they are, the more likely they will understand) and ask them for feedback 3) Remember that not everyone is interested in what you are selling so if you can, politely/briefly ask your audience if the pitch made sense 4) Watch other good pitches and ask yourself what it was that made it work e.g. charisma, slide design, making the point clear, contrasting with competitors etc.
- psyklic 5y agoNot sure why there's so much hate in the comments. Having done a lot of improv myself, imo these are very insightful, non-typical parallels that I hadn't considered before. Also really enjoyed the overview of Ries vs. Rabois and references. Sure it's on a company blog, but the content seems like a valuable contribution to me.
- amoghs 5y agoThanks! Glad you enjoyed the read.