6 ms·

If you really want to understand what made Miles unique I would skip the rest and jump straight to the Fusion period. Notably missing in the write-up are two in

by lowkey 5y ago

If you really want to understand what made Miles unique I would skip the rest and jump straight to the Fusion period. Notably missing in the write-up are two incredible live performances: Dark Magus and Live Evil.

khazhoux 5y ago
My first reaction was to strongly disagree on advising a newbie to start with that period, but you are right to say that period will be the most "unique", even to modern ears. His 50's-60's work was genius, but is still an easily accessible language, even to non-jazz folks. His later output, by contrast, is a language that was never quite-this or quite-that. It never popularized, and will seem rather bizarre to most people even today.
- Mediterraneo10 5y ago
  Strange to say that Miles' fusion never popularized, because Bitches Brew sold well and sparked imitators (Herbie Hancock's fusion era, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Weather Report, Jaco Pastorious) that also sold well and sold out conventional concert venues. As the Wikipedia article for Bitches Brew notes, the album “was viewed by some writers in the 1970s as what spurred jazz's renewed popularity with mainstream audiences that decade.”
  - khazhoux 5y ago
    I mean that the musical language of BB (perfect example) won't be familiar to people today (same as it was unfamiliar back then). By contrast, any of his quintet performances is easily recognized as "jazz", even to people who don't listen to jazz. BB will be more like "what am I listening to??" Do you disagree?
    - SubGenius 5y ago
      That does make sense to an extent. The average listener today is more likely to think of cheesy 80s synthy jazz fusion when they hear of the term, rather than something like Bitches Brew.
  - SubGenius 5y ago
    They all sound like imitators(not really) because most of them played on the Bitches Brew record. At least Herbie Hancock, Joe Zawinul, Wayne Shorter, John McLaughlin. :)
    - Mediterraneo10 5y ago
      "Imitators" might not be the best word, but judging from these musicians’ recordings as leader or sideman to others up to about 1970, which are generally in a much more traditional postbop vein, they might not have made the leap to fusion had it not been for Miles’ late 1960s albums already opening up a new genre gradually and then IASW and Bitches Brew throwing the doors wide open.
  - dharma1 5y ago
    I don’t know if you can call those guys imitators - Herbie, McLaughlin and Zawinul all played on Bitches Brew. It was a seminal “fusion” record for sure and the school of Miles without a doubt left a lasting impression on all of them, but all those groups sound pretty different to me. I love hearing John McLaughlin tell Miles stories - he has so much respect and gratitude for him. BB, In a Silent Way and Kind of Blue are probably my favourite Miles records, he really managed to reinvent the art form more times than many other people I can think of
    - singingfish 5y ago
      Agreed, none of them are imitators. Proteges, yes. Zawinul got his start with Cannonball Alderly, and one of his early compositions (Mercy Mercy Mercy) has big fusion vibes to it. Hancock is just a Miles level genius. My piano teacher told me something like "I can play at Herbie's standard for a 5 minute stretch, but watching him keep at it for 90 minutes solid ..." McLachlin is a hippie who cut his teeth on the late 60s modal/fusion scene. In a Silent Way is my favourite jazz album ever. I think the history was they did Bitches Brew, then after that straightened that approach out a bit to make something more accessible.
      - dharma1 5y ago
        Protégés - absolutely! I think they all saw it that way too. Miles was the teacher Timeline on those albums - I think it happened the other way around actually - In A Silent Way was Miles’ first foray into electric jazz in 1969 - Bitches Brew came soon after in 1970 and was pushing the boundaries further. Both great albums, every single player on those albums is great. Miles sure could pick the best for his bands and make it gel together. Herbie is without a doubt one of the giants. Listened to the Headhunters era albums probably more than any other records in my life. Killer. Love his earlier jazz stuff too, and the acoustic albums he put out later (Joni covers etc)
quickthrowman 5y ago
Also notably missing: A Tribute to Jack Johnson. Any guide to Miles Davis missing Jack Johnson along with Live Evil and Dark Magus is … incomplete. Miles’ fusion period is by far his most interesting work.
- yoctonaut 5y ago
  The Jack Johnson outtakes with Sonny Sharrock were a revelation to me. Well worth seeking those out.
- pfarrell 5y ago
  Searched to find a reference to Jack Johnson because I, too, was surprised it was missing. I think JJ, Kind of Blue, and Sketches of Spain are the best entry points to start listening to Miles.
- hindsightbias 5y ago
  I think of it as pre-fusion. It’s a very experimental, somewhat tentative - there is so much music from 70, 71 that I love and then it just goes way too electric for my taste.
Slow_Hand 5y ago
Huge fan of both records. As a massive Miles fan they're probably the two that I can come back to again and again when I'm looking to get kicked in the pants, musically. I suspect a lot of people are going to be alienated by 'Dark Magus' in particular, but the energy of his bands in this era is astounding. Really wild stuff. A personal favorite of mine is 'What I Say (Live)' off of 'Live Evil. That bass line is the foundation for a lot of my own playing and Keith Jarrett is on FIRE in this performance. It's a shame that his Miles performances are the only ones where we got to hear him in this idiom. I'm also a huge fan of 'In a Silent Way' and 'On the Corner'. I suppose my fav Mile's records are the ones where he was really pushing the boundaries of music. It reminds me of the tag that started appearing on his record around the era of 'In a Silent Way': "Directions in music by Miles Davis." Edit: Wow. The reviewer really just skipped right over these two records. I guess they're probably niche for most people. That's too bad, cause they're the most bombastic records in his catalog and really highlight his range and the depths of his innovations. Oh well.
- SubGenius 5y ago
  You're right about that bassline! I love the full, round but tight tone. You might like Richard Bona and Linley Marthe, both of whom played with Joe Zawinul's Syndicate project. They both have that similar kind of solid tone. - https://youtu.be/c4zNb01nA_A https://youtu.be/c4zNb01nA_A - https://youtu.be/ppNFJbMrOHw https://youtu.be/ppNFJbMrOHw
  - Slow_Hand 5y ago
    Yeah. Michael Henderson on bass. He was only 19-20 at the time of that record. One aspect I love about Miles is his eye for talent, and his openness to switching it up and bringing in new players of diverse background. I forget who, but one of the 'Dark Magus' era players is on record describing how Miles would just throw in some wildcard players to keep everyone fresh and on their toes. I believe 'Dark Magus' itself features two players who had not played with Miles prior that gig and didn't know each other. Imagine that! Your first time (ever) playing with Miles is on stage at Carnegie Hall with a band who's never played with you. Talk about trial by fire.
bsenftner 5y ago
Your recommend got me to listen to Live Evil yesterday. I'm blown away and very intrigued by how many hip hop artists have samples from this this in their hits. I was continually encountering familiar riffs and moments as I listened.

by lowkey 5y ago

khazhoux 5y ago

My first reaction was to strongly disagree on advising a newbie to start with that period, but you are right to say that period will be the most "unique", even to modern ears. His 50's-60's work was genius, but is still an easily accessible language, even to non-jazz folks. His later output, by contrast, is a language that was never quite-this or quite-that. It never popularized, and will seem rather bizarre to most people even today.

Mediterraneo10 5y ago
Strange to say that Miles' fusion never popularized, because Bitches Brew sold well and sparked imitators (Herbie Hancock's fusion era, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Weather Report, Jaco Pastorious) that also sold well and sold out conventional concert venues. As the Wikipedia article for Bitches Brew notes, the album “was viewed by some writers in the 1970s as what spurred jazz's renewed popularity with mainstream audiences that decade.”
- khazhoux 5y ago
  I mean that the musical language of BB (perfect example) won't be familiar to people today (same as it was unfamiliar back then). By contrast, any of his quintet performances is easily recognized as "jazz", even to people who don't listen to jazz. BB will be more like "what am I listening to??" Do you disagree?
  - SubGenius 5y ago
    That does make sense to an extent. The average listener today is more likely to think of cheesy 80s synthy jazz fusion when they hear of the term, rather than something like Bitches Brew.
- SubGenius 5y ago
  They all sound like imitators(not really) because most of them played on the Bitches Brew record. At least Herbie Hancock, Joe Zawinul, Wayne Shorter, John McLaughlin. :)
  - Mediterraneo10 5y ago
    "Imitators" might not be the best word, but judging from these musicians’ recordings as leader or sideman to others up to about 1970, which are generally in a much more traditional postbop vein, they might not have made the leap to fusion had it not been for Miles’ late 1960s albums already opening up a new genre gradually and then IASW and Bitches Brew throwing the doors wide open.
- dharma1 5y ago
  I don’t know if you can call those guys imitators - Herbie, McLaughlin and Zawinul all played on Bitches Brew. It was a seminal “fusion” record for sure and the school of Miles without a doubt left a lasting impression on all of them, but all those groups sound pretty different to me. I love hearing John McLaughlin tell Miles stories - he has so much respect and gratitude for him. BB, In a Silent Way and Kind of Blue are probably my favourite Miles records, he really managed to reinvent the art form more times than many other people I can think of
  - singingfish 5y ago
    Agreed, none of them are imitators. Proteges, yes. Zawinul got his start with Cannonball Alderly, and one of his early compositions (Mercy Mercy Mercy) has big fusion vibes to it. Hancock is just a Miles level genius. My piano teacher told me something like "I can play at Herbie's standard for a 5 minute stretch, but watching him keep at it for 90 minutes solid ..." McLachlin is a hippie who cut his teeth on the late 60s modal/fusion scene. In a Silent Way is my favourite jazz album ever. I think the history was they did Bitches Brew, then after that straightened that approach out a bit to make something more accessible.
    - dharma1 5y ago
      Protégés - absolutely! I think they all saw it that way too. Miles was the teacher Timeline on those albums - I think it happened the other way around actually - In A Silent Way was Miles’ first foray into electric jazz in 1969 - Bitches Brew came soon after in 1970 and was pushing the boundaries further. Both great albums, every single player on those albums is great. Miles sure could pick the best for his bands and make it gel together. Herbie is without a doubt one of the giants. Listened to the Headhunters era albums probably more than any other records in my life. Killer. Love his earlier jazz stuff too, and the acoustic albums he put out later (Joni covers etc)

quickthrowman 5y ago

Also notably missing: A Tribute to Jack Johnson. Any guide to Miles Davis missing Jack Johnson along with Live Evil and Dark Magus is … incomplete. Miles’ fusion period is by far his most interesting work.

yoctonaut 5y ago
The Jack Johnson outtakes with Sonny Sharrock were a revelation to me. Well worth seeking those out.
pfarrell 5y ago
Searched to find a reference to Jack Johnson because I, too, was surprised it was missing. I think JJ, Kind of Blue, and Sketches of Spain are the best entry points to start listening to Miles.
hindsightbias 5y ago
I think of it as pre-fusion. It’s a very experimental, somewhat tentative - there is so much music from 70, 71 that I love and then it just goes way too electric for my taste.

Slow_Hand 5y ago

Huge fan of both records. As a massive Miles fan they're probably the two that I can come back to again and again when I'm looking to get kicked in the pants, musically. I suspect a lot of people are going to be alienated by 'Dark Magus' in particular, but the energy of his bands in this era is astounding. Really wild stuff. A personal favorite of mine is 'What I Say (Live)' off of 'Live Evil. That bass line is the foundation for a lot of my own playing and Keith Jarrett is on FIRE in this performance. It's a shame that his Miles performances are the only ones where we got to hear him in this idiom. I'm also a huge fan of 'In a Silent Way' and 'On the Corner'. I suppose my fav Mile's records are the ones where he was really pushing the boundaries of music. It reminds me of the tag that started appearing on his record around the era of 'In a Silent Way': "Directions in music by Miles Davis." Edit: Wow. The reviewer really just skipped right over these two records. I guess they're probably niche for most people. That's too bad, cause they're the most bombastic records in his catalog and really highlight his range and the depths of his innovations. Oh well.

SubGenius 5y ago
You're right about that bassline! I love the full, round but tight tone. You might like Richard Bona and Linley Marthe, both of whom played with Joe Zawinul's Syndicate project. They both have that similar kind of solid tone. - https://youtu.be/c4zNb01nA_A https://youtu.be/c4zNb01nA_A - https://youtu.be/ppNFJbMrOHw https://youtu.be/ppNFJbMrOHw
- Slow_Hand 5y ago
  Yeah. Michael Henderson on bass. He was only 19-20 at the time of that record. One aspect I love about Miles is his eye for talent, and his openness to switching it up and bringing in new players of diverse background. I forget who, but one of the 'Dark Magus' era players is on record describing how Miles would just throw in some wildcard players to keep everyone fresh and on their toes. I believe 'Dark Magus' itself features two players who had not played with Miles prior that gig and didn't know each other. Imagine that! Your first time (ever) playing with Miles is on stage at Carnegie Hall with a band who's never played with you. Talk about trial by fire.

bsenftner 5y ago

Your recommend got me to listen to Live Evil yesterday. I'm blown away and very intrigued by how many hip hop artists have samples from this this in their hits. I was continually encountering familiar riffs and moments as I listened.