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It seems like it would be trivial for a civilization to have a policy of no electromagnetic emissions so no signature at all. 10km/second is absurdly slow. Who

by aj7 5y ago

It seems like it would be trivial for a civilization to have a policy of no electromagnetic emissions so no signature at all. 10km/second is absurdly slow. Who would want to make the trip, and condemn thousands of generations of her progeny to bizarre ship life and culture?

signal11 5y ago
> Who Civilizations aware of imminent extinction-level events may choose to do that, similar to how shipwrecked sailors may fashion a raft and "risk it" in the off-chance they survive.
- edgyquant 5y ago
  But why would they go off to a different system instead of just colonizing around their sun or even other planets close to them? If it’s their star is gonna blow why would they go any further than the nearest star?
  - signal11 5y ago
    Depends on the ELE. There are several which can swallow entire solar systems, and the nearby stars may not be hospitable. Maybe the endgame is to find a habitable planet?
Aeolun 5y ago
> Who would want to make the trip, and condemn thousands of generations of her progeny Presumably the people that do this do not think ship life will be that bizarre. I’m frankly more concerned about the sustainability aspect than how daily life will work.
spywaregorilla 5y ago
Ship life would probably be better than the lives many people experience today, in first world countries. There's also probably some super advanced VR by that time.
keiferski 5y ago
Imagine that VR develops over the next few centuries. Millions of people engaged everyday, for 10-12-15 hours. At that point, what’s the difference between being on a ship or being on Earth?
- nicoburns 5y ago
  If life is like that, then why bother going?
  - keiferski 5y ago
    I didn’t say I was going to sign up :) But I don’t think it’s too far fetched. Imagine a VR system that doesn’t require wearing a helmet and can be displayed in physical space. And/or a Matrix-style direct jack into the brain. Any environment you can think of, easily accessible. Doesn’t seem that bad to me. Beyond that, A lot of people already spend 10+ hours staring at screens here on Earth...
    - nicoburns 5y ago
      Does it replicate smells, tastes and touch sensations as well as just sound and vision? I spend a lot of time staring at a screen, but it's the time I spend not staring at a screen and interacting with other beings that makes life worth living.
      - keiferski 5y ago
        Obviously we are speculating here, but projecting current tech 300-400 years into the future, it doesn’t seem that absurd to me. And don’t forget that you’d be in space with tons of other colonists too.
  - rho4 5y ago
    e.g. because your star is about to blow up.
  - spywaregorilla 5y ago
tomp 5y ago
All transmissions that are distinguishable from noise are energy loss. If the ships are big enough, living on them approximates living on a continent / planet…
douglaswlance 5y ago
You could load a ship up with frozen embryos and have an automated system that raises the first generation. Though, honestly, humans are terrible galactic conquerors. The artificial life that we create will be the ones taking over the galaxy.
- TOGoS 5y ago
  That's the premise of one of my favorite sci-fi stories, The Songs of Distant Earth by Arthur C Clarke. The stuff about what-do-people-do-when-the-apocalypse-is-coming-but-kind-of-a-ways-off was cool too. (in case anyone scrolling by is looking for additions to their to-read list)
  - weeblewobble 5y ago
    also a major plot in Elysium Fire by Alastair Reynolds
- hungryforcodes 5y ago
  To be fair, we'd need to have an actual galactic history as a race to know if that's true.
- Syzygies 5y ago
  > The artificial life that we create will be the ones taking over the galaxy. Exactly. A galactic version of "core wars". If we leave any trace at all it will be our machines. Future life will resemble 3D printers in search of raw materials, not GI tracts in search of food, spores that will survive billion year voyages with infinitesimal chances of success.
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
It wouldn't even be about colonization, because it would be infeasible to make a return trip or, unless communications technology changes (e.g. quantum entanglement magic), even phone home upon arrival. The only thing I can think of is survival of the species, survival and spread of life itself. It's not infeasible to believe that's how life on earth started - not as a spontaneous process, but a natural spread of life from elsewhere (panspermia) or a previous life form spreading the building blocks on purpose. But life on earth has been going on for hundreds of millions of years so I don't think we'd find any traces of it.
- edgyquant 5y ago
  Life on Earth is billions of years old. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_evolutionary_history_of_life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_evolutionary_h...
kingsuper20 5y ago
A machine intelligence. Just turn yourself off for the trip. Generally I'd say that the notion of a Von Neumann machine is so obvious and so effective that there's something really wrong in our guesses on how widespread intelligence is.
s1artibartfast 5y ago
Who is to say life on a colony ship is undesirable? It could offer the best lifestyle possible and be culturally glorified.

by aj7 5y ago

signal11 5y ago

> Who Civilizations aware of imminent extinction-level events may choose to do that, similar to how shipwrecked sailors may fashion a raft and "risk it" in the off-chance they survive.

edgyquant 5y ago
But why would they go off to a different system instead of just colonizing around their sun or even other planets close to them? If it’s their star is gonna blow why would they go any further than the nearest star?
- signal11 5y ago
  Depends on the ELE. There are several which can swallow entire solar systems, and the nearby stars may not be hospitable. Maybe the endgame is to find a habitable planet?

Aeolun 5y ago

> Who would want to make the trip, and condemn thousands of generations of her progeny Presumably the people that do this do not think ship life will be that bizarre. I’m frankly more concerned about the sustainability aspect than how daily life will work.

spywaregorilla 5y ago

Ship life would probably be better than the lives many people experience today, in first world countries. There's also probably some super advanced VR by that time.

keiferski 5y ago

Imagine that VR develops over the next few centuries. Millions of people engaged everyday, for 10-12-15 hours. At that point, what’s the difference between being on a ship or being on Earth?

nicoburns 5y ago
If life is like that, then why bother going?
- keiferski 5y ago
  I didn’t say I was going to sign up :) But I don’t think it’s too far fetched. Imagine a VR system that doesn’t require wearing a helmet and can be displayed in physical space. And/or a Matrix-style direct jack into the brain. Any environment you can think of, easily accessible. Doesn’t seem that bad to me. Beyond that, A lot of people already spend 10+ hours staring at screens here on Earth...
  - nicoburns 5y ago
    Does it replicate smells, tastes and touch sensations as well as just sound and vision? I spend a lot of time staring at a screen, but it's the time I spend not staring at a screen and interacting with other beings that makes life worth living.
    - keiferski 5y ago
      Obviously we are speculating here, but projecting current tech 300-400 years into the future, it doesn’t seem that absurd to me. And don’t forget that you’d be in space with tons of other colonists too.
- rho4 5y ago
  e.g. because your star is about to blow up.
- spywaregorilla 5y ago

tomp 5y ago

All transmissions that are distinguishable from noise are energy loss. If the ships are big enough, living on them approximates living on a continent / planet…

douglaswlance 5y ago

You could load a ship up with frozen embryos and have an automated system that raises the first generation. Though, honestly, humans are terrible galactic conquerors. The artificial life that we create will be the ones taking over the galaxy.

TOGoS 5y ago
That's the premise of one of my favorite sci-fi stories, The Songs of Distant Earth by Arthur C Clarke. The stuff about what-do-people-do-when-the-apocalypse-is-coming-but-kind-of-a-ways-off was cool too. (in case anyone scrolling by is looking for additions to their to-read list)
- weeblewobble 5y ago
  also a major plot in Elysium Fire by Alastair Reynolds
hungryforcodes 5y ago
To be fair, we'd need to have an actual galactic history as a race to know if that's true.
Syzygies 5y ago
> The artificial life that we create will be the ones taking over the galaxy. Exactly. A galactic version of "core wars". If we leave any trace at all it will be our machines. Future life will resemble 3D printers in search of raw materials, not GI tracts in search of food, spores that will survive billion year voyages with infinitesimal chances of success.

Cthulhu_ 5y ago

It wouldn't even be about colonization, because it would be infeasible to make a return trip or, unless communications technology changes (e.g. quantum entanglement magic), even phone home upon arrival. The only thing I can think of is survival of the species, survival and spread of life itself. It's not infeasible to believe that's how life on earth started - not as a spontaneous process, but a natural spread of life from elsewhere (panspermia) or a previous life form spreading the building blocks on purpose. But life on earth has been going on for hundreds of millions of years so I don't think we'd find any traces of it.

edgyquant 5y ago
Life on Earth is billions of years old. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_evolutionary_history_of_life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_evolutionary_h...

kingsuper20 5y ago

A machine intelligence. Just turn yourself off for the trip. Generally I'd say that the notion of a Von Neumann machine is so obvious and so effective that there's something really wrong in our guesses on how widespread intelligence is.

s1artibartfast 5y ago

Who is to say life on a colony ship is undesirable? It could offer the best lifestyle possible and be culturally glorified.