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Not going to comment on anything else since "flexible working laws" and "less relaxing lifestyle" can mean anything, but "light a fire under their ass until the

by qsort 5y ago

Not going to comment on anything else since "flexible working laws" and "less relaxing lifestyle" can mean anything, but "light a fire under their ass until they are forced to innovate" is unironically and unapologetically good. If there's one thing that consistently fosters innovation and progress it's competition. That's something that holds true everywhere. Software, industry, education, games, sports, you name it.

deleted 5y ago
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jk3921 5y ago
Its weird really. Europeans do pretty well in sports so its not like they lack drive. Speaking having just watched Djokovic, Nadal et al battling it out.
- kaba0 5y ago
  It’s just blatant overgeneralization by grandparent comment. You can’t really describe a whole continent like that, especially on a very variable human attribute like drivenness.
whimsicalism 5y ago
Easy to advocate this when you are not the one that goes hungry or homeless if you lose a job
dgb23 5y ago
The most impactful and important innovations typically come from people who are intrinsically motivated. Also, competition skews innovation towards solving problems that arrive from competition. You might just be hiring lawyers to bully a competitor instead of fostering sustainable progress. Or if your market is unregulated you can decide to use more severe methods.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- qsort 5y ago
  > people who are intrinsically motivated People who are intrinsically motivated are going to do their thing regardless of the boundary conditions. There's no way to give someone intrinsic motivation and there's no way to take it away from them. You would have had to physically handicap Michelangelo to prevent him from sculpting or Maradona from kicking balls and so on. Incentives definitely aren't everything, but they do work, and when you talk about systemic problems you have to think statistically. > You might just be hiring lawyers to bully a competitor instead of fostering sustainable progress. Or if your market is unregulated you can decide to use more severe methods. I'm talking about competition, not laissez-faire. If you're saying that competitive markets have to be fostered and don't just magically happen, then we are just vehemently agreeing.
6gvONxR4sf7o 5y ago
Innovation for innovation’s sake is meaningless. Innovation to improve quality of life is reasonable, so decreasing quality of life to increase innovation is like shooting yourself in the foot for faster access to healthcare. And competition is not the only thing that breeds innovation. Just think back to all the HN articles about needing to make time for curious people to innovate.
petermcneeley 5y ago
Isnt it actually all the pseudo monopolies that created all the innovations? Bell labs, Xerox park?
Daishiman 5y ago
I've had the best ideas and the sharpest intellect once I had _plenty_ of money to be comfortable such that I could just sit on my ass thinking about whatever I wanted without worrying whether I needed to make ends meet. You are so wrong it's not even funny.
etripe 5y ago
> If there's one thing that consistently fosters innovation and progress it's competition. That statement is a bit of a truism, isn't it? If you squint hard enough, you can call most things a competition. If all else fails, in the sexual marketplace because financial success is an indicator of romantic success for males, who happen to have driven a lot of the innovation up to this point. It also ignores the nuance to be found in whether and where to focus on public investment versus private investment, for one. I don't think you can really sensibly frame all public investment as competition, unless you're stretching it to the amorphous "international competition", in which case the principle is dangerously close to being unfalsifiable. I'm not saying competition has no role to play, but where are inspiration, the joy of creation, altruism and wanting to abolish frustration and greater problems? We don't just have selfish genes.

by qsort 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

jk3921 5y ago

Its weird really. Europeans do pretty well in sports so its not like they lack drive. Speaking having just watched Djokovic, Nadal et al battling it out.

kaba0 5y ago
It’s just blatant overgeneralization by grandparent comment. You can’t really describe a whole continent like that, especially on a very variable human attribute like drivenness.

whimsicalism 5y ago

Easy to advocate this when you are not the one that goes hungry or homeless if you lose a job

dgb23 5y ago

The most impactful and important innovations typically come from people who are intrinsically motivated. Also, competition skews innovation towards solving problems that arrive from competition. You might just be hiring lawyers to bully a competitor instead of fostering sustainable progress. Or if your market is unregulated you can decide to use more severe methods.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
qsort 5y ago
> people who are intrinsically motivated People who are intrinsically motivated are going to do their thing regardless of the boundary conditions. There's no way to give someone intrinsic motivation and there's no way to take it away from them. You would have had to physically handicap Michelangelo to prevent him from sculpting or Maradona from kicking balls and so on. Incentives definitely aren't everything, but they do work, and when you talk about systemic problems you have to think statistically. > You might just be hiring lawyers to bully a competitor instead of fostering sustainable progress. Or if your market is unregulated you can decide to use more severe methods. I'm talking about competition, not laissez-faire. If you're saying that competitive markets have to be fostered and don't just magically happen, then we are just vehemently agreeing.

6gvONxR4sf7o 5y ago

Innovation for innovation’s sake is meaningless. Innovation to improve quality of life is reasonable, so decreasing quality of life to increase innovation is like shooting yourself in the foot for faster access to healthcare. And competition is not the only thing that breeds innovation. Just think back to all the HN articles about needing to make time for curious people to innovate.

petermcneeley 5y ago

Isnt it actually all the pseudo monopolies that created all the innovations? Bell labs, Xerox park?

Daishiman 5y ago

I've had the best ideas and the sharpest intellect once I had _plenty_ of money to be comfortable such that I could just sit on my ass thinking about whatever I wanted without worrying whether I needed to make ends meet. You are so wrong it's not even funny.

etripe 5y ago

> If there's one thing that consistently fosters innovation and progress it's competition. That statement is a bit of a truism, isn't it? If you squint hard enough, you can call most things a competition. If all else fails, in the sexual marketplace because financial success is an indicator of romantic success for males, who happen to have driven a lot of the innovation up to this point. It also ignores the nuance to be found in whether and where to focus on public investment versus private investment, for one. I don't think you can really sensibly frame all public investment as competition, unless you're stretching it to the amorphous "international competition", in which case the principle is dangerously close to being unfalsifiable. I'm not saying competition has no role to play, but where are inspiration, the joy of creation, altruism and wanting to abolish frustration and greater problems? We don't just have selfish genes.