4 ms·

The article mentions a RAPE at knife point, not a robbery. "By the time she realized she wasn’t alone, the blade of a kitchen knife was pointing down at her. T

by dannyw 5y ago

The article mentions a RAPE at knife point, not a robbery. "By the time she realized she wasn’t alone, the blade of a kitchen knife was pointing down at her. The stranger grabbed her, shoved her onto a bed, and raped her. Drunken revelers were wandering the streets outside, but the woman was too scared to scream." There is a HUGE difference...

bko 5y ago
Sorry, I missed that. I'll edit my comment. The perpetrator was caught and presumably prosecuted. Again, what alternative chain of events would you have preferred?
- okprod 5y ago
  That Airbnb take responsibility for its service offering end-to-end, in this case the key exchange. From the article it's obvious the company has no ethics and has tried to cover up shoddy/lax business practices from the beginning, so another alternative that could have helped is Airbnb being liable for damages in the millions/billions until they learn their lesson, or fold if they don't. Oh, it might also have been helpful to not wait two years to hear about this, but as we all know, those who use NDAs are always the best of people/organizations.
  - bko 5y ago
    The did take responsibility. That's what the money was for. Except it went to the victims rather than Attorney General and regulatory agencies. Do you feel the same moral indignation about crimes committed in hotels? Here are NYC stats from 2017: > In 2017, there were 2,656 hotel crimes reported city-wide, compared to 2,223 in 2015, a 19.5-percent increase... This includes felony assaults, which soared 51.9 percent, from 81 to 122, and third-degree assaults, which jumped 38 percent, from 255 to 352. How much should the hotel where the 2017 Las Vegas shootings be liable for? https://nypost.com/2018/06/04/crime-in-nyc-hotels-has-skyrocketed-in-recent-years/ https://nypost.com/2018/06/04/crime-in-nyc-hotels-has-skyroc...
    - okprod 5y ago
      Do you feel the same moral indignation about crimes committed in hotels? Yes. Sorry, I would share stats about Airbnb crimes with you but the company keeps most secret by paying people off. Second, if you want Airbnb compared to hotels, then the firm should be paying all applicable hotel/rental taxes and following all respective hotel regulations, but they don't because Airbnb markets itself as a "platform". A trivial issue is I don't know of a hotel in New York that would have the key exchange be at a bodega.
  - z0ltan 5y ago
    Welcome to the real world.
- newsclues 5y ago
  Is it an option to go back in time and put the Airbnb genie back in the bottle before a tech company decided to get around hotel laws, disturb the housing market and profit while creating harms by failing basic security and safety?
- dannyw 5y ago
  It's great that the perpetrator was caught, and I don't think there's anything more that Airbnb could have done in this specific instance. But the article then highlights more (separate) incidents where Airbnb potentially has more responsibility because it was the hosts themselves taking the actions, highlighting weaknesses in Airbnb's background check process: "Lapayowker’s lawyer, Teresa Li, says the suit was able to proceed, despite the arbitration requirements in Airbnb’s terms of service, because the company hadn’t done a thorough background check of the host. Airbnb only flags prior convictions, and though the host had previously been charged with battery, he wasn’t convicted." The article then goes on to explain that Airbnb had under-resourced their trust and safety teams. As part of the 2020 COVID layoffs, Airbnb also laid off their entire trust and safety team in Portland, Oregon. I don't want to quote more from the lengthy article, as it's not my piece, but it seems like Airbnb could be doing more to improve the safety of their platform; such as mandating keyless entry (which would have prevented many incidents, including the aforementioned rape in the lead of the article).
  - snypher 5y ago
    >Airbnb only flags prior convictions, and though the host had previously been charged with battery, he wasn’t convicted." Is the implication here people should be punished for pre-crime as well?
  - noobermin 5y ago
    Being charged with a crime but not convicted shouldn't be held against anyone, even if in this case they were to commit actual crime later. To do otherwise is an injustice.
    - staticman2 5y ago
      There's no reason it would have to be an injustice. The standards of proof for getting banned from Airbnb should be less than thrown in jail.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]

by dannyw 5y ago

bko 5y ago

Sorry, I missed that. I'll edit my comment. The perpetrator was caught and presumably prosecuted. Again, what alternative chain of events would you have preferred?

okprod 5y ago
That Airbnb take responsibility for its service offering end-to-end, in this case the key exchange. From the article it's obvious the company has no ethics and has tried to cover up shoddy/lax business practices from the beginning, so another alternative that could have helped is Airbnb being liable for damages in the millions/billions until they learn their lesson, or fold if they don't. Oh, it might also have been helpful to not wait two years to hear about this, but as we all know, those who use NDAs are always the best of people/organizations.
- bko 5y ago
  The did take responsibility. That's what the money was for. Except it went to the victims rather than Attorney General and regulatory agencies. Do you feel the same moral indignation about crimes committed in hotels? Here are NYC stats from 2017: > In 2017, there were 2,656 hotel crimes reported city-wide, compared to 2,223 in 2015, a 19.5-percent increase... This includes felony assaults, which soared 51.9 percent, from 81 to 122, and third-degree assaults, which jumped 38 percent, from 255 to 352. How much should the hotel where the 2017 Las Vegas shootings be liable for? https://nypost.com/2018/06/04/crime-in-nyc-hotels-has-skyrocketed-in-recent-years/ https://nypost.com/2018/06/04/crime-in-nyc-hotels-has-skyroc...
  - okprod 5y ago
    Do you feel the same moral indignation about crimes committed in hotels? Yes. Sorry, I would share stats about Airbnb crimes with you but the company keeps most secret by paying people off. Second, if you want Airbnb compared to hotels, then the firm should be paying all applicable hotel/rental taxes and following all respective hotel regulations, but they don't because Airbnb markets itself as a "platform". A trivial issue is I don't know of a hotel in New York that would have the key exchange be at a bodega.
- z0ltan 5y ago
  Welcome to the real world.
newsclues 5y ago
Is it an option to go back in time and put the Airbnb genie back in the bottle before a tech company decided to get around hotel laws, disturb the housing market and profit while creating harms by failing basic security and safety?
dannyw 5y ago
It's great that the perpetrator was caught, and I don't think there's anything more that Airbnb could have done in this specific instance. But the article then highlights more (separate) incidents where Airbnb potentially has more responsibility because it was the hosts themselves taking the actions, highlighting weaknesses in Airbnb's background check process: "Lapayowker’s lawyer, Teresa Li, says the suit was able to proceed, despite the arbitration requirements in Airbnb’s terms of service, because the company hadn’t done a thorough background check of the host. Airbnb only flags prior convictions, and though the host had previously been charged with battery, he wasn’t convicted." The article then goes on to explain that Airbnb had under-resourced their trust and safety teams. As part of the 2020 COVID layoffs, Airbnb also laid off their entire trust and safety team in Portland, Oregon. I don't want to quote more from the lengthy article, as it's not my piece, but it seems like Airbnb could be doing more to improve the safety of their platform; such as mandating keyless entry (which would have prevented many incidents, including the aforementioned rape in the lead of the article).
- snypher 5y ago
  >Airbnb only flags prior convictions, and though the host had previously been charged with battery, he wasn’t convicted." Is the implication here people should be punished for pre-crime as well?
- noobermin 5y ago
  Being charged with a crime but not convicted shouldn't be held against anyone, even if in this case they were to commit actual crime later. To do otherwise is an injustice.
  - staticman2 5y ago
    There's no reason it would have to be an injustice. The standards of proof for getting banned from Airbnb should be less than thrown in jail.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]