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>> Windows 10 was released in July 2015 and dubbed "Windows as a service" Can we please have 7 back, with its complete lack of built in ads, dark patterns ramm

>> Windows 10 was released in July 2015 and dubbed "Windows as a service" Can we please have 7 back, with its complete lack of built in ads, dark patterns ramming the Microsoft browser down your throat, telemetry everywhere (the calculator, really?), changes for the sake of showing that some manager did something rather than functionality (Rename this PC -> Rename this PC (Advanced))? Windows 10 still regularly shows clients as offline even though their internet connection is functioning normally, has trouble putting my laptop to sleep when I shut the lid (with ALL programs closed), and the recent 21H1 update caused a number of blue screens across our fleet. Just fix your damn mess before you "hail a new era in personal computing", Micosoft.

TonyTrapp 5y ago
You know, I wouldn't even mind about telemetry in the calculator if that would have told them that I activate Programmer Mode a whole lot through the Alt+3 shortcut, and that my muscle memory of 20 years was completely ruined by them moving the Programmer Mode to Alt+4 for GUI consistency (after they added a new Graphing Mode that they wanted to stick right next to the Scientific Mode).
- 0-_-0 5y ago
  Oh, there is a graph mode? Nevermind, I just crashed it with "sin(x)sin(y)<0"
  - whoopdedo 5y ago
    Microsoft doing in 2021, what Apple did in 1999. (Microsoft PowerToys for XP had a graphing calculator but it doesn't support inequalities.) I coincidentally had to fire up Sheepshaver recently so I've got it on hand. I put that inequality in the MacOS 8 Graphing Calculator and it gave me a nice looking checkerboard. Except I had to write it as "sin(x)sin(y)<0" or else it would think I meant "sin(xsin(y))<0", which is pretty itself.
    - 0-_-0 5y ago
      I was going for sin(x)sin(y)>0.1, but I never got that far with the Windows one. Here it is in Desmos, you can move the slider: https://www.desmos.com/calculator/izui2rwylh https://www.desmos.com/calculator/izui2rwylh
- dvfjsdhgfv 5y ago
  SpeedCrunch is one of the first programs I install on a new machine, probably just after Everything, WizTree and Unlocker.
- PaulKeeble 5y ago
  If they had used that telemetry to realise that maybe just maybe people tended to use the same mode and it might be an idea to store it and reapply it on launch then I could see a point to the telemetry. But they aren't even using it to solve the problems their users have, it is just data collection for collections sake if the applications aren't improving!
  - TonyTrapp 5y ago
    It always has stored the last used mode here. Does it not do that for you? Smells like a bug if it doesn't.
    - cydactyl 5y ago
      If only we had some sort of telemetry to identify this possible bug and address it...
  - freeopinion 5y ago
    Do you suppose loyalty card telemetry is used to improve the customer's shopping experience? Or do you suspect it might possibly be used for other purposes?
    - worewood 5y ago
      At least loyalty cards give something in exchange, a discount, a free item etc. Software telemetry only gives us headaches
- cecilpl2 5y ago
  Side note about the Alt-1/2/3/4 shortcuts in calculator - does anyone else find that they only work sporadically? I just tried it a bunch of times now and got maybe 50-60% success rate on it actually triggering the mode switch.
  - TonyTrapp 5y ago
    Same, I usually press them 2-3 times to make sure they work.
  - ectopod 5y ago
    It's not just those shortcuts. There is a weird keyboard focus bug where it gets confused if you use both the mouse and the keyboard.
  - mywacaday 5y ago
    Good god, I never knew about the date calculator option. To add years, months or days to a date there are three drop downs with the values 1 to 999, why on earth is it done this way?
- z3t4 5y ago
  Often "telemetry" is collected just because it's possible, the more the merrier, rarely is it used to actually improve the product.
philliphaydon 5y ago
Pass. Windows 10 is just so much better than 7. I still don’t get why people don’t move on. I’m happier having window 10 which has never crashed on me vs 7 which did it weekly.
- mosselman 5y ago
  OS stability is not the thing that people are concerned about when criticising Windows 10. What has made me turn away from windows is the complete lack of trust I have that the OS will respect my privacy.
  - kathoum 5y ago
    This. I switched from 7 to 10 when it was offered. I stayed with 10 for about one year, and I liked it thanks to all the fixes and improvements and despite the occasional quirk. But after one year, I realized my computer didn't feel like it was mine anymore. I jumped to linux and never went back.
    - partiallypro 5y ago
      Ubuntu started collecting telemetry in 2018, I don't see how it's invasive at all.
      - AlexandrB 5y ago
        The difference between invasive and non-invasive telemetry is choice. If you give me the choice to turn it off, there's some sense of mutual trust: you trust me to leave it enabled if I have no reason not to and I trust you not to abuse the information collected. When there is no choice, as with Windows 10, I have to wonder why. What are you collecting that you won't allow me to turn it off at my discretion? What are you doing with that information that earning my trust is not an option?
      - cesarb 5y ago
        Linux is not just Ubuntu, there are plenty of distributions to choose from.
swiley 5y ago
Microsoft knows it's a dead end. It's time to put Pop OS or some other "user friendly" distro on your machines.
- pkulak 5y ago
  Yup. Windows runs great in a VM for the one or two apps with no Linux equivalent. Windows is just an application runtime.
  - bserge 5y ago
    If only.
    - dontblink 5y ago
      Agree. I wish I could game on Linux. DX12 has really cemented the Windows monopoly. Embrace, extend, extinguish. I have to use Windows to play. If the cloud gaming services supported Ultrawides, I may be off of it altogether.
      - pkulak 5y ago
        Yeah, I never got into gaming on computers, so that’s not an issue for me. I have a Windows VM for DxO and some old scanner software.
tasogare 5y ago
Yep, keep underlying invisible improvements of 10 like the kernel but ditch the whole UI and revert it back to Windows 7. It was peak Windows design (second is Windows Classic UI) and change for sake of change totally ruined it.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  Agreed. Whoever is working on the kernel and PowerShell at MS can stay, everyone working on Windows UX is fired. Preferably out of a cannon and into the sun.
  - mwcampbell 5y ago
    > everyone working on Windows UX is fired. Preferably out of a cannon and into the sun. I was on the Windows accessibility team, which was under the shell org. Not everything that we did in Windows 10 was bad. The Narrator screen reader built into Windows 7 sucked (my former colleagues and managers agreed); we made that much better in Windows 10. I wouldn't want to go back to Windows being the only platform where the only good screen readers were the third-party ones, and those products had to use ugly hacks to make Windows accessible.
- UI_at_80x24 5y ago
  This might be showing a difference in our age and/or when we were exposed to Windows UI, but I think the Windows UI peaked at Windows 2000. Crisp 2D with borders, separations, edges, UI elements were not hidden, obvious scroll bars, AND distinct colouring. As you referenced 'Classic Mode', it was VERY close to Win2k UI, but not the same.
Wowfunhappy 5y ago
It’s called Windows 10 LTSC and it’s great. Sadly, Microsoft won’t sell it to you. But it’s... out there.
- EvanAnderson 5y ago
  At least until Microsoft wraps-up the Open Business licensing program you can still acquire LTSC thru that program. You'll have to work with a reseller. It's a bit of a pain, but it's not too bad. I've used Dell and CDW in the past. The minimum volume license buy is 5 licenses. Any good reseller will sell you 1 copy of LTSC and 4 of the cheapest SKU in the catalog (usually $5-10 / ea) to get your volume license contract started. After that you used to be able to purchase piecemeal for 2 years before you need to fulfill the minimum purchase again. The licenses themselves are perpetual. With the program being killed I'd treat it as a one-time purchase and assume you have no further rights after October (I think) of this year. I don't like it, but it's not too hard to do either. The trick is finding a reseller who will leave you alone after the purchase (no sales calls, etc).
  - artificialLimbs 5y ago
    Im unconcerned about the calls but this doesn’t sound feasible for >500 seats.
    - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
      If you have that kind of volume can't you buy LTSC from relatively normal channels?
      - EvanAnderson 5y ago
        The Open License program is a "normal" channel. Many small and medium businesses acquired their licenses for MSFT products that way.
    - EvanAnderson 5y ago
      LTSC isn't intended for day-to-day PC users. MSFT would happily sell you licensed for 500 seats. I have had Customers with >500 seat Open License contracts. (It's all pretty meaningless now since the program is effectively dead anyway...)
GrumpyNl 5y ago
I agree, try to play solitaire on win 10.
MrsPeaches 5y ago
In know you shouldn't have to but I've found O&O ShutUp10 to be a great piece of software to stop a few of the more annoying parts of Windows 10. https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  The correct way to handle something like this would be DSC, at least the way you can actually set Local Policy correctly instead of just modifying the registry.
cm2187 5y ago
And OS settings scattered around multiple places (control panel vs settings), forced rebooting every 10min, resetting your default apps regularly, trying to prevent me from creating a local account, and for most of the life of windows 10 a broken start menu (locking for a long time, inconsistent search results), cortana. I am personally convinced that the windows developers all use macs and are not bothered by these glaring, in your face quality issues.
- elygre 5y ago
  I have never encountered a situation with forced reboots every 10 minutes. Do you have any very special hardware that might cause this?
  - rleigh 5y ago
    I think this was somewhat hyperbolic, it's not that frequent, but it's still beyond ridiculous. I run VMs on vmware workstation. Every 2 or 3 days I come in to find the system rebooted during the night. I've tried every knob possible to turn it off to no avail. Updates regularly reset all the power settings so it suspends after 30 minutes. The lack of control over the machine's basic functioning makes it barely fit for purpose.
    - heelix 5y ago
      yup - this one kills me too. I'll have multiple VMs/docker images up and running all week and discover my dev machine sitting there with a fresh login prompt. A hard, not scheduled by me, reboot is absolutely unacceptable.
      - naikrovek 5y ago
        here's the thing, though. microsoft has watched people in the past NEVER update their operating system for whatever reason. too much of a pain, "no need", can't deal with the outage caused by a reboot, whatever. microsoft has also been blamed quite voraciously for "insecure" operating systems allowing worms to spread, when patched systems don't even get infected. so, because MS is damned if they do, and damned if they don't, Microsoft has chosen to "do" and keep people patched up. oh the horror. the culture of blaming Microsoft for things that you or your installed applications do is the cause for this attitude Microsoft has about users not knowing what's good for themselves. THEY DON'T KNOW WHATS BEST; Not when it comes to security. We as users have demonstrated this over and over again. So MS err on the side of caution, and essentially force updates. and, yes, Microsoft change things, for reason(s) that you are not aware of, because either a new feature requires a change in a supporting subsystem, or because they believe they've discovered a better way to do something, or through extensive user testing they have discovered a better UI paradigm. or maybe just because they want to. look, things are NEVER going to remain the same from year to year. your "the good old days" were someone else's "this new stuff sucks so much, why did they change it, it was fine" and that will be true so long as humans use things others create. sometimes the decisions Microsoft makes are good. sometimes they are bad. yes, the correct decision FOR YOU is crystal clear FOR YOU, but guess what? other people exist, and what's best for them is something else. so the majority get better representation. positively and negatively. I hate many decisions Microsoft has made, and I recognize that there is no way to please everyone. It is amazing to me how many people do not understand this. (in this entire comment, I am using the royal "you" and I am not talking about any specific individual.)
underscore_ku 5y ago
just use linux, is better
- artificialLimbs 5y ago
  You almost cannot convince an entrenched org of decent size to switch.
slownews45 5y ago
Another thing, you used to be able to easily a) create a local account, b) create a domain account, c) create a default profile that new accounts used. The new and improved setup gave us a crap start menu (apps vs programs etc), all sorts of crap defaults that no one would ever want, endless advertising disguised as "helpful" prompts. Did you know internet explorer is 10x faster than chrome? Did you know IE has been replaced by edge which is even faster than IE was? etc
dantondwa 5y ago
I recently discovered, while helping a family member, that to unlock Windows from S mode you now need a Microsoft account. This is really crazy: I need a stupid Microsoft account to use my PC. Without mentioning that the only way to create a local user is to setup windows without connecting it to the internet. And without mentioning the amount of nagging, ads and spam that Windows users have to withstand. Like, the other day Edge reappeared on my taskbar by itself and reset itself as the default browser. And how many times do I need to confirm that yes, I am not crazy, I want to use another browser? It’s a pity, because under the crust of shit, there’s a good OS with wonderful software compatibility that spans over decades and that is, overall, quite stable. Too bad it is constantly trying to bother its users.
- tored 5y ago
  Month ago I installed Windows 10 and created a local account while connected to the internet, if I remember correctly it was hidden by 2 or 3 steps. Professional version.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - clajiness 5y ago
    Same. No need for the Microsoft account, although it is tricky to find.
    - Macha 5y ago
      Some wonderful mid-brightness blue text on a dark blue background.
      - tehbeard 5y ago
        Any chance the ADA or similar legislation can be dropped on them for that?
  - dantondwa 5y ago
api 5y ago
This new era in personal computing is "you are the product, not the customer." This always sucks but it's absolutely unforgivable in an OS that you actually pay for. If Windows were free maybe it'd be a compromise some people would make. The old era of personal computing was actual personal computing. If you want that MacOS is the closest commercial OS, or use Linux or BSD if you have more tinkering tolerance.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  Yeah. When you're the product and the customer? Not cool. But I guess you can pay more and get the Professional version and have less garbage...
bsd44 5y ago
You should look into an alternative then. Linux is quite beginner friendly these days and with Wine you can emulate pretty much any Windows application if that's what's holding you back from switching. If not then MacOS is the way to go. If you really want to go "back" then you should have a look at ReactOS which is a sort of an open-source Windows clone. I can't comment on recent Windows-related event as XP was the last version of Windows that I used and even back then I wasn't happy about all the "spyware" that came with it. I can only imagine it's gotten worse since then.
- azinman2 5y ago
  > Wine you can emulate pretty much any Windows application if that's what's holding you back from switching. That’s just not true. I wish it were but much of the real pro software you can’t get in Linux doesn’t worn.
  - hutzlibu 5y ago
    Yes, please do not make such claims without actually knowing. Just because some games are running more or less stable, doesn't mean you can run complex software with it.
    - bsd44 5y ago
      That's a very bold assumption to make. I said "pretty much any" not "every" since we're talking about regular usage of a computer. OP didn't mention anything in particular so I suggested three alternatives. Before you start calling people out you should first define what "complex" is.
      - azinman2 5y ago
        PowerPoint 2016 is listed as “garbage” in winehq, and that’s the latest version listed. Recent Photoshop is either silver or garbage depending on the version. Premiere is listed as garbage for all versions. Newest iTunes is bronze. I’m not even trying to find bad examples. I’m just poking around in their public db for popular software that doesn’t exist in Linux. I’ve run into this every time I try to use wine for real — it’s never worked well. It’s also a really hard problem! You basically need to re-write Windows and all of it’s related components, which one of the worlds biggest companies has spent decades on and however many billions of dollars. But it’s not like “pretty much any” windows software will run well. It’s quite selective outside of games.
hutzlibu 5y ago
For those who are not aware of its existence, there are some projects, that try to keep up with a "debloater", meaning they maintain a script, to remove as much of that crap as possible. First thing I do on a new windows computer: https://github.com/Sycnex/Windows10Debloater https://github.com/Sycnex/Windows10Debloater It is not perfect, some stuff remains as Microsoft regulary "improves" their bloatware setup. But it makes windows so much more bearable.
- tomc1985 5y ago
  There's also Blackbird https://www.getblackbird.net/ https://www.getblackbird.net/ Been using this since release
_0ffh 5y ago
If you resent the telemetry (and I agree), you might want to check out Windows 10 AME. You can even find pre-built images, AFAIK.
delaaxe 5y ago
I installed Windows without an internet connection and it pretty much feels like Windows 7
riffic 5y ago
you know you could run Linux or something.
- artificialLimbs 5y ago
  It’s true. But I still have to support the other 499 people in my org.
racl101 5y ago
Windows 95, Windows XP and Windows 7 were the best.
- neogodless 5y ago
  You missed Windows 2000! I actually really liked it. Since it wasn't as consumer focused, there were occasional issues with GPUs/games, but for the most part it was really solid.
wetpaws 5y ago
Just use Linux. I don't see much point in using windows in 2021, even for gaming.
- _-david-_ 5y ago
  >even for gaming. Gaming is quite possibly going to be an issue. Proton has made great strides, but some games just don't work well or at all.
- artificialLimbs 5y ago
  I don’t play games on my Windows machine. I support hundreds of people who will never use Linux because it would cost too much time and money to switch.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
naikrovek 5y ago
they can do both, you know. the people who fix bugs aren't the same people who make corners rounded it design control panel user interfaces or rename things. the entire company doesn't focus on a single thing at a time.
amatecha 5y ago
There was never any real reason to ever "upgrade" beyond Windows 7, except that MS stopped supporting it. It still works fine. I know numerous people who still run it as their daily driver, including playing all the latest games (there are very very few that actually _require_ Windows 10). I also have to question whether these UX changes provide any benefit to users at all. They strike me as nothing but a cost to users in terms of familiarity and discoverability. Unless the new UI changes are somehow objectively better in any of those regards, it's a net negative change. I know some people will say, for example, "you can change the task bar back to where it was". However, apparently less than 5% of users ever change default settings, according to an unfortunately-anecdotal article[0], so a change like this presumably decides how ~95% of people will use the OS. I can't wait to explain to my 83 yr old uncle (who doesn't understand the difference between a website and an application on the computer) why everything just randomly moved over and looks way different, after he has spent years just getting familiar with basic usage of the computer to begin with. [0] https://archive.uie.com/brainsparks/2011/09/14/do-users-change-their-settings/ https://archive.uie.com/brainsparks/2011/09/14/do-users-chan...
xattt 5y ago
Monkey’s Paw: Here you go! It is now called Windows 365, loses all legacy support and can only be leased on a monthly plan! The upside is that you don’t have to bother with all those pesky driver updates!

TonyTrapp 5y ago

You know, I wouldn't even mind about telemetry in the calculator if that would have told them that I activate Programmer Mode a whole lot through the Alt+3 shortcut, and that my muscle memory of 20 years was completely ruined by them moving the Programmer Mode to Alt+4 for GUI consistency (after they added a new Graphing Mode that they wanted to stick right next to the Scientific Mode).

0-_-0 5y ago
Oh, there is a graph mode? Nevermind, I just crashed it with "sin(x)sin(y)<0"
- whoopdedo 5y ago
  Microsoft doing in 2021, what Apple did in 1999. (Microsoft PowerToys for XP had a graphing calculator but it doesn't support inequalities.) I coincidentally had to fire up Sheepshaver recently so I've got it on hand. I put that inequality in the MacOS 8 Graphing Calculator and it gave me a nice looking checkerboard. Except I had to write it as "sin(x)sin(y)<0" or else it would think I meant "sin(xsin(y))<0", which is pretty itself.
  - 0-_-0 5y ago
    I was going for sin(x)sin(y)>0.1, but I never got that far with the Windows one. Here it is in Desmos, you can move the slider: https://www.desmos.com/calculator/izui2rwylh https://www.desmos.com/calculator/izui2rwylh
dvfjsdhgfv 5y ago
SpeedCrunch is one of the first programs I install on a new machine, probably just after Everything, WizTree and Unlocker.
PaulKeeble 5y ago
If they had used that telemetry to realise that maybe just maybe people tended to use the same mode and it might be an idea to store it and reapply it on launch then I could see a point to the telemetry. But they aren't even using it to solve the problems their users have, it is just data collection for collections sake if the applications aren't improving!
- TonyTrapp 5y ago
  It always has stored the last used mode here. Does it not do that for you? Smells like a bug if it doesn't.
  - cydactyl 5y ago
    If only we had some sort of telemetry to identify this possible bug and address it...
- freeopinion 5y ago
  Do you suppose loyalty card telemetry is used to improve the customer's shopping experience? Or do you suspect it might possibly be used for other purposes?
  - worewood 5y ago
    At least loyalty cards give something in exchange, a discount, a free item etc. Software telemetry only gives us headaches
cecilpl2 5y ago
Side note about the Alt-1/2/3/4 shortcuts in calculator - does anyone else find that they only work sporadically? I just tried it a bunch of times now and got maybe 50-60% success rate on it actually triggering the mode switch.
- TonyTrapp 5y ago
  Same, I usually press them 2-3 times to make sure they work.
- ectopod 5y ago
  It's not just those shortcuts. There is a weird keyboard focus bug where it gets confused if you use both the mouse and the keyboard.
- mywacaday 5y ago
  Good god, I never knew about the date calculator option. To add years, months or days to a date there are three drop downs with the values 1 to 999, why on earth is it done this way?
z3t4 5y ago
Often "telemetry" is collected just because it's possible, the more the merrier, rarely is it used to actually improve the product.

philliphaydon 5y ago

Pass. Windows 10 is just so much better than 7. I still don’t get why people don’t move on. I’m happier having window 10 which has never crashed on me vs 7 which did it weekly.

mosselman 5y ago
OS stability is not the thing that people are concerned about when criticising Windows 10. What has made me turn away from windows is the complete lack of trust I have that the OS will respect my privacy.
- kathoum 5y ago
  This. I switched from 7 to 10 when it was offered. I stayed with 10 for about one year, and I liked it thanks to all the fixes and improvements and despite the occasional quirk. But after one year, I realized my computer didn't feel like it was mine anymore. I jumped to linux and never went back.
  - partiallypro 5y ago
    Ubuntu started collecting telemetry in 2018, I don't see how it's invasive at all.
    - AlexandrB 5y ago
      The difference between invasive and non-invasive telemetry is choice. If you give me the choice to turn it off, there's some sense of mutual trust: you trust me to leave it enabled if I have no reason not to and I trust you not to abuse the information collected. When there is no choice, as with Windows 10, I have to wonder why. What are you collecting that you won't allow me to turn it off at my discretion? What are you doing with that information that earning my trust is not an option?
    - cesarb 5y ago
      Linux is not just Ubuntu, there are plenty of distributions to choose from.

swiley 5y ago

Microsoft knows it's a dead end. It's time to put Pop OS or some other "user friendly" distro on your machines.

pkulak 5y ago
Yup. Windows runs great in a VM for the one or two apps with no Linux equivalent. Windows is just an application runtime.
- bserge 5y ago
  If only.
  - dontblink 5y ago
    Agree. I wish I could game on Linux. DX12 has really cemented the Windows monopoly. Embrace, extend, extinguish. I have to use Windows to play. If the cloud gaming services supported Ultrawides, I may be off of it altogether.
    - pkulak 5y ago
      Yeah, I never got into gaming on computers, so that’s not an issue for me. I have a Windows VM for DxO and some old scanner software.

tasogare 5y ago

Yep, keep underlying invisible improvements of 10 like the kernel but ditch the whole UI and revert it back to Windows 7. It was peak Windows design (second is Windows Classic UI) and change for sake of change totally ruined it.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
Agreed. Whoever is working on the kernel and PowerShell at MS can stay, everyone working on Windows UX is fired. Preferably out of a cannon and into the sun.
- mwcampbell 5y ago
  > everyone working on Windows UX is fired. Preferably out of a cannon and into the sun. I was on the Windows accessibility team, which was under the shell org. Not everything that we did in Windows 10 was bad. The Narrator screen reader built into Windows 7 sucked (my former colleagues and managers agreed); we made that much better in Windows 10. I wouldn't want to go back to Windows being the only platform where the only good screen readers were the third-party ones, and those products had to use ugly hacks to make Windows accessible.
UI_at_80x24 5y ago
This might be showing a difference in our age and/or when we were exposed to Windows UI, but I think the Windows UI peaked at Windows 2000. Crisp 2D with borders, separations, edges, UI elements were not hidden, obvious scroll bars, AND distinct colouring. As you referenced 'Classic Mode', it was VERY close to Win2k UI, but not the same.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago

It’s called Windows 10 LTSC and it’s great. Sadly, Microsoft won’t sell it to you. But it’s... out there.

EvanAnderson 5y ago
At least until Microsoft wraps-up the Open Business licensing program you can still acquire LTSC thru that program. You'll have to work with a reseller. It's a bit of a pain, but it's not too bad. I've used Dell and CDW in the past. The minimum volume license buy is 5 licenses. Any good reseller will sell you 1 copy of LTSC and 4 of the cheapest SKU in the catalog (usually $5-10 / ea) to get your volume license contract started. After that you used to be able to purchase piecemeal for 2 years before you need to fulfill the minimum purchase again. The licenses themselves are perpetual. With the program being killed I'd treat it as a one-time purchase and assume you have no further rights after October (I think) of this year. I don't like it, but it's not too hard to do either. The trick is finding a reseller who will leave you alone after the purchase (no sales calls, etc).
- artificialLimbs 5y ago
  Im unconcerned about the calls but this doesn’t sound feasible for >500 seats.
  - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
    If you have that kind of volume can't you buy LTSC from relatively normal channels?
    - EvanAnderson 5y ago
      The Open License program is a "normal" channel. Many small and medium businesses acquired their licenses for MSFT products that way.
  - EvanAnderson 5y ago
    LTSC isn't intended for day-to-day PC users. MSFT would happily sell you licensed for 500 seats. I have had Customers with >500 seat Open License contracts. (It's all pretty meaningless now since the program is effectively dead anyway...)

GrumpyNl 5y ago

I agree, try to play solitaire on win 10.

MrsPeaches 5y ago

In know you shouldn't have to but I've found O&O ShutUp10 to be a great piece of software to stop a few of the more annoying parts of Windows 10. https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10

encryptluks2 5y ago
The correct way to handle something like this would be DSC, at least the way you can actually set Local Policy correctly instead of just modifying the registry.

cm2187 5y ago

And OS settings scattered around multiple places (control panel vs settings), forced rebooting every 10min, resetting your default apps regularly, trying to prevent me from creating a local account, and for most of the life of windows 10 a broken start menu (locking for a long time, inconsistent search results), cortana. I am personally convinced that the windows developers all use macs and are not bothered by these glaring, in your face quality issues.

elygre 5y ago
I have never encountered a situation with forced reboots every 10 minutes. Do you have any very special hardware that might cause this?
- rleigh 5y ago
  I think this was somewhat hyperbolic, it's not that frequent, but it's still beyond ridiculous. I run VMs on vmware workstation. Every 2 or 3 days I come in to find the system rebooted during the night. I've tried every knob possible to turn it off to no avail. Updates regularly reset all the power settings so it suspends after 30 minutes. The lack of control over the machine's basic functioning makes it barely fit for purpose.
  - heelix 5y ago
    yup - this one kills me too. I'll have multiple VMs/docker images up and running all week and discover my dev machine sitting there with a fresh login prompt. A hard, not scheduled by me, reboot is absolutely unacceptable.
    - naikrovek 5y ago
      here's the thing, though. microsoft has watched people in the past NEVER update their operating system for whatever reason. too much of a pain, "no need", can't deal with the outage caused by a reboot, whatever. microsoft has also been blamed quite voraciously for "insecure" operating systems allowing worms to spread, when patched systems don't even get infected. so, because MS is damned if they do, and damned if they don't, Microsoft has chosen to "do" and keep people patched up. oh the horror. the culture of blaming Microsoft for things that you or your installed applications do is the cause for this attitude Microsoft has about users not knowing what's good for themselves. THEY DON'T KNOW WHATS BEST; Not when it comes to security. We as users have demonstrated this over and over again. So MS err on the side of caution, and essentially force updates. and, yes, Microsoft change things, for reason(s) that you are not aware of, because either a new feature requires a change in a supporting subsystem, or because they believe they've discovered a better way to do something, or through extensive user testing they have discovered a better UI paradigm. or maybe just because they want to. look, things are NEVER going to remain the same from year to year. your "the good old days" were someone else's "this new stuff sucks so much, why did they change it, it was fine" and that will be true so long as humans use things others create. sometimes the decisions Microsoft makes are good. sometimes they are bad. yes, the correct decision FOR YOU is crystal clear FOR YOU, but guess what? other people exist, and what's best for them is something else. so the majority get better representation. positively and negatively. I hate many decisions Microsoft has made, and I recognize that there is no way to please everyone. It is amazing to me how many people do not understand this. (in this entire comment, I am using the royal "you" and I am not talking about any specific individual.)

underscore_ku 5y ago

just use linux, is better

artificialLimbs 5y ago
You almost cannot convince an entrenched org of decent size to switch.

slownews45 5y ago

Another thing, you used to be able to easily a) create a local account, b) create a domain account, c) create a default profile that new accounts used. The new and improved setup gave us a crap start menu (apps vs programs etc), all sorts of crap defaults that no one would ever want, endless advertising disguised as "helpful" prompts. Did you know internet explorer is 10x faster than chrome? Did you know IE has been replaced by edge which is even faster than IE was? etc

dantondwa 5y ago

I recently discovered, while helping a family member, that to unlock Windows from S mode you now need a Microsoft account. This is really crazy: I need a stupid Microsoft account to use my PC. Without mentioning that the only way to create a local user is to setup windows without connecting it to the internet. And without mentioning the amount of nagging, ads and spam that Windows users have to withstand. Like, the other day Edge reappeared on my taskbar by itself and reset itself as the default browser. And how many times do I need to confirm that yes, I am not crazy, I want to use another browser? It’s a pity, because under the crust of shit, there’s a good OS with wonderful software compatibility that spans over decades and that is, overall, quite stable. Too bad it is constantly trying to bother its users.

tored 5y ago
Month ago I installed Windows 10 and created a local account while connected to the internet, if I remember correctly it was hidden by 2 or 3 steps. Professional version.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- clajiness 5y ago
  Same. No need for the Microsoft account, although it is tricky to find.
  - Macha 5y ago
    Some wonderful mid-brightness blue text on a dark blue background.
    - tehbeard 5y ago
      Any chance the ADA or similar legislation can be dropped on them for that?
- dantondwa 5y ago

api 5y ago

This new era in personal computing is "you are the product, not the customer." This always sucks but it's absolutely unforgivable in an OS that you actually pay for. If Windows were free maybe it'd be a compromise some people would make. The old era of personal computing was actual personal computing. If you want that MacOS is the closest commercial OS, or use Linux or BSD if you have more tinkering tolerance.

AnimalMuppet 5y ago
Yeah. When you're the product and the customer? Not cool. But I guess you can pay more and get the Professional version and have less garbage...

bsd44 5y ago

You should look into an alternative then. Linux is quite beginner friendly these days and with Wine you can emulate pretty much any Windows application if that's what's holding you back from switching. If not then MacOS is the way to go. If you really want to go "back" then you should have a look at ReactOS which is a sort of an open-source Windows clone. I can't comment on recent Windows-related event as XP was the last version of Windows that I used and even back then I wasn't happy about all the "spyware" that came with it. I can only imagine it's gotten worse since then.

azinman2 5y ago
> Wine you can emulate pretty much any Windows application if that's what's holding you back from switching. That’s just not true. I wish it were but much of the real pro software you can’t get in Linux doesn’t worn.
- hutzlibu 5y ago
  Yes, please do not make such claims without actually knowing. Just because some games are running more or less stable, doesn't mean you can run complex software with it.
  - bsd44 5y ago
    That's a very bold assumption to make. I said "pretty much any" not "every" since we're talking about regular usage of a computer. OP didn't mention anything in particular so I suggested three alternatives. Before you start calling people out you should first define what "complex" is.
    - azinman2 5y ago
      PowerPoint 2016 is listed as “garbage” in winehq, and that’s the latest version listed. Recent Photoshop is either silver or garbage depending on the version. Premiere is listed as garbage for all versions. Newest iTunes is bronze. I’m not even trying to find bad examples. I’m just poking around in their public db for popular software that doesn’t exist in Linux. I’ve run into this every time I try to use wine for real — it’s never worked well. It’s also a really hard problem! You basically need to re-write Windows and all of it’s related components, which one of the worlds biggest companies has spent decades on and however many billions of dollars. But it’s not like “pretty much any” windows software will run well. It’s quite selective outside of games.

hutzlibu 5y ago

For those who are not aware of its existence, there are some projects, that try to keep up with a "debloater", meaning they maintain a script, to remove as much of that crap as possible. First thing I do on a new windows computer: https://github.com/Sycnex/Windows10Debloater https://github.com/Sycnex/Windows10Debloater It is not perfect, some stuff remains as Microsoft regulary "improves" their bloatware setup. But it makes windows so much more bearable.

tomc1985 5y ago
There's also Blackbird https://www.getblackbird.net/ https://www.getblackbird.net/ Been using this since release

_0ffh 5y ago

If you resent the telemetry (and I agree), you might want to check out Windows 10 AME. You can even find pre-built images, AFAIK.

delaaxe 5y ago

I installed Windows without an internet connection and it pretty much feels like Windows 7

riffic 5y ago

you know you could run Linux or something.

artificialLimbs 5y ago
It’s true. But I still have to support the other 499 people in my org.

racl101 5y ago

Windows 95, Windows XP and Windows 7 were the best.

neogodless 5y ago
You missed Windows 2000! I actually really liked it. Since it wasn't as consumer focused, there were occasional issues with GPUs/games, but for the most part it was really solid.

wetpaws 5y ago

Just use Linux. I don't see much point in using windows in 2021, even for gaming.

_-david-_ 5y ago
>even for gaming. Gaming is quite possibly going to be an issue. Proton has made great strides, but some games just don't work well or at all.
artificialLimbs 5y ago
I don’t play games on my Windows machine. I support hundreds of people who will never use Linux because it would cost too much time and money to switch.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

naikrovek 5y ago

they can do both, you know. the people who fix bugs aren't the same people who make corners rounded it design control panel user interfaces or rename things. the entire company doesn't focus on a single thing at a time.

amatecha 5y ago

There was never any real reason to ever "upgrade" beyond Windows 7, except that MS stopped supporting it. It still works fine. I know numerous people who still run it as their daily driver, including playing all the latest games (there are very very few that actually _require_ Windows 10). I also have to question whether these UX changes provide any benefit to users at all. They strike me as nothing but a cost to users in terms of familiarity and discoverability. Unless the new UI changes are somehow objectively better in any of those regards, it's a net negative change. I know some people will say, for example, "you can change the task bar back to where it was". However, apparently less than 5% of users ever change default settings, according to an unfortunately-anecdotal article[0], so a change like this presumably decides how ~95% of people will use the OS. I can't wait to explain to my 83 yr old uncle (who doesn't understand the difference between a website and an application on the computer) why everything just randomly moved over and looks way different, after he has spent years just getting familiar with basic usage of the computer to begin with. [0] https://archive.uie.com/brainsparks/2011/09/14/do-users-change-their-settings/ https://archive.uie.com/brainsparks/2011/09/14/do-users-chan...

xattt 5y ago

Monkey’s Paw: Here you go! It is now called Windows 365, loses all legacy support and can only be leased on a monthly plan! The upside is that you don’t have to bother with all those pesky driver updates!