5 ms·

Yeah but then you're in the "manage a bunch of really old hardware" business. RasPi have that consistency factor and the "game boy" factor of kinda being able

by rtpg 5y ago

Yeah but then you're in the "manage a bunch of really old hardware" business. RasPi have that consistency factor and the "game boy" factor of kinda being able to throw one against a wall and for it to work. It's not the best programming experience but at least it'll be consistent. (Part of this is a Python problem tho tbh. Every Django Girls thing is half "go through the code" and half "try to figure out what weird situation your computer is in", even for Macs)

TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
But that's a fair representation of both computer ownership and real programming.
- paulcole 5y ago
  The ones who get bit by the programming bug have their whole lives to be annoyed by the hassles of computer ownership, upgrades, etc. But most won’t keep programming, so I think it’s smart to at least keep this class focused on its purpose, which isn’t to see who can get most frustrated by their decade old Dell tower.
  - ChrisRR 5y ago
    A decade isn't exactly a long time. That's still a windows 7 machine with an i5 Or just wipe it and throw ubuntu on it
    - paulcole 5y ago
      Let’s say there are a dozen kids in the class. The library provided the monitors. How does the volunteer teacher get a dozen towers to and from the library? What do they do with a dozen towers in between classes? Would this be easier or harder with a dozen Pi 400s?
      - drewzero1 5y ago
        This is the real strength of the Pi 400 for this application: sure you could do it all cheaper with used office hardware, but it turns this "just works" intro class into a full advanced IT course (or a full-time IT job for the volunteer teacher).
    - turpialito 5y ago
      If you want the RPi look and feel &/| if you happen to have said PCs lying around &/| buying brand-new Pi's is not an option, you can get Raspberry Pi OS for x86.
- rtpg 5y ago
  The fact that real programming is a mess isn't like... important! It's entirely incidental and almost entirely due to this kind of attitude of "well I got it working on my machine" that slows down making real progress Not to mention that all this futzing around is usually indicative of leaky abstractions up the wazoo. There are hard things in programming, sometimes. It's hard to write iterative quick sort without introducing off-by-one bugs. But most shit is easy, and a lot of hardness is around just busted tooling.
- zachrose 5y ago
  Get them to yearn for the sea and they’ll Google around trying to figure out why Nokogiri won’t compile on their own
swiley 5y ago
>even for Macs In many ways Apple is making this kind of thing harder and not easier.
skrtskrt 5y ago
> Part of this is a Python problem Yeah it is kind of annoying that the language that's going to be best for instructing kids/beginners has such a terrible ecosystem that will put kids in such frustrating PITA positions getting the environment right.

by rtpg 5y ago

TheOtherHobbes 5y ago

But that's a fair representation of both computer ownership and real programming.

paulcole 5y ago
The ones who get bit by the programming bug have their whole lives to be annoyed by the hassles of computer ownership, upgrades, etc. But most won’t keep programming, so I think it’s smart to at least keep this class focused on its purpose, which isn’t to see who can get most frustrated by their decade old Dell tower.
- ChrisRR 5y ago
  A decade isn't exactly a long time. That's still a windows 7 machine with an i5 Or just wipe it and throw ubuntu on it
  - paulcole 5y ago
    Let’s say there are a dozen kids in the class. The library provided the monitors. How does the volunteer teacher get a dozen towers to and from the library? What do they do with a dozen towers in between classes? Would this be easier or harder with a dozen Pi 400s?
    - drewzero1 5y ago
      This is the real strength of the Pi 400 for this application: sure you could do it all cheaper with used office hardware, but it turns this "just works" intro class into a full advanced IT course (or a full-time IT job for the volunteer teacher).
  - turpialito 5y ago
    If you want the RPi look and feel &/| if you happen to have said PCs lying around &/| buying brand-new Pi's is not an option, you can get Raspberry Pi OS for x86.
rtpg 5y ago
The fact that real programming is a mess isn't like... important! It's entirely incidental and almost entirely due to this kind of attitude of "well I got it working on my machine" that slows down making real progress Not to mention that all this futzing around is usually indicative of leaky abstractions up the wazoo. There are hard things in programming, sometimes. It's hard to write iterative quick sort without introducing off-by-one bugs. But most shit is easy, and a lot of hardness is around just busted tooling.
zachrose 5y ago
Get them to yearn for the sea and they’ll Google around trying to figure out why Nokogiri won’t compile on their own

swiley 5y ago

>even for Macs In many ways Apple is making this kind of thing harder and not easier.

skrtskrt 5y ago

> Part of this is a Python problem Yeah it is kind of annoying that the language that's going to be best for instructing kids/beginners has such a terrible ecosystem that will put kids in such frustrating PITA positions getting the environment right.