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Free trade also implies putting monopolies in check which the USA is glad not to do as that seems key to own the top 50 of largest companies. Europe being more

Free trade also implies putting monopolies in check which the USA is glad not to do as that seems key to own the top 50 of largest companies. Europe being more protectionist against foreign monopolies would actually improve free trade and competition and be good for everybody

adventured 5y ago
Which of their own tech giants has Europe put into check against their own self-interest? None, because they can't create them to begin with. Unfortunately for Europe, making empty excuses won't help (as the past 20 years has overwhelmingly demonstrated). Free trade does not imply putting monopolies into check, as all monopolies are not an inherent restraint on trade. Besides that, there is no free trade anyway. It doesn't exist anywhere. When you sign trade agreements what you have is not free trade, you have structured trade agreements, not a scenario where anything goes. Trade agreements are specifically a restraint on trade, by agreement. Free trade is entirely an intellectual con. It can't exist, it has never existed, it will never exist. There isn't a single major nation that actually wants free trade, either. And further, Europe is more protectionist than the US is and that has always been the case throughout all of US economic history. It will always be the case, due to the extreme nationalism that will always exist in Europe and the nationalist forever-conflicts between nations there which also will never cease. Google wasn't a tech giant before it had an aging, entrenched monopoly? Of course it was. Google was one of the world's largest technology businesses by 2008, a mere decade after its founding. Apple doesn't even have a consequential monopoly anywhere on planet Earth. In the US it has half the app store market, that's it. Outside of the US its position is dramatically smaller. Amazon doesn't have a monopoly in anything other than e-books. Microsoft was one of the world's largest technology businesses before they acquired their desktop OS monopoly. Intel was one of the world's largest technology businesses before it acquired a monopoly in PC microprocessors. And Facebook - well absolutely nobody is stopping European nations from creating their own globe spanning social networks. The Europeans haven't done it and can't do it, for obvious reasons (fractured, incompatible markets). There are no nations in Europe eager to hamper their own giants, either. Germany isn't eager to cripple their auto giants (now or in the past). France isn't eager to cripple LVMH. Italy isn't eager to cripple Luxottica's monopoly. Spain isn't eager to crush Inditex. The Europeans wouldn't be rushing to destroy Airbus if they were to acquire a monopoly aerospace position. And so on.
- reader_mode 5y ago
  >And further, Europe is more protectionist than the US is and that has always been the case throughout all of US economic history. It will always be the case, due to the extreme nationalism that will always exist in Europe and the nationalist forever-conflicts between nations there which also will never cease. European Union started from "European Coal and Steel Community" which was basically a cartel. Calling anything free trade in relation to EU is ridiculous.
  - Rexxar 5y ago
    Read the treaty and will see how wrong you are when you call this a cartel : https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/LSU/?uri=CELEX:11951K/TXT https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/LSU/?uri=CELEX:11...
    - reader_mode 5y ago
      I mean go read the OPEC mission statement - I'm sure you'll see it's about stabilising the supply and making things sustainable. But at the end of the day it's about profit and price controls. EU has an additional layer of PC on top but it's the same bullshit - it started out with coal and steel, then they added things like auto manufacturers and farmers. If you think EU is a free market institution you are seriously out of touch.
      - Rexxar 5y ago
        Comparing EU to OPEC is beyond ridiculous
- fvdessen 5y ago
  > Which of their own tech giants has Europe put into check against their own self-interest? None, because they can't create them to begin with. Europe and USA are not playing on a level field. The USA has a truly unified market (commerce / law / language) which lets its companies grow faster to monopoly, and from there sheer size and network effect prevent any competition from emerging. It is hard to blame European entrepreneurs from failing to compete with Google / Facebook when Americans can't seem to create any competitive alternative either. The nature of the game is whoever gets to monopoly first wins, and at that game a fragmented Europe is at a fatal disadvantage. The only counter is to prevent American monopolies from operating in your market to let local companies survive their slower growth. China has applied that strategy successfully, I hope Europe starts doing the same.

adventured 5y ago

Which of their own tech giants has Europe put into check against their own self-interest? None, because they can't create them to begin with. Unfortunately for Europe, making empty excuses won't help (as the past 20 years has overwhelmingly demonstrated). Free trade does not imply putting monopolies into check, as all monopolies are not an inherent restraint on trade. Besides that, there is no free trade anyway. It doesn't exist anywhere. When you sign trade agreements what you have is not free trade, you have structured trade agreements, not a scenario where anything goes. Trade agreements are specifically a restraint on trade, by agreement. Free trade is entirely an intellectual con. It can't exist, it has never existed, it will never exist. There isn't a single major nation that actually wants free trade, either. And further, Europe is more protectionist than the US is and that has always been the case throughout all of US economic history. It will always be the case, due to the extreme nationalism that will always exist in Europe and the nationalist forever-conflicts between nations there which also will never cease. Google wasn't a tech giant before it had an aging, entrenched monopoly? Of course it was. Google was one of the world's largest technology businesses by 2008, a mere decade after its founding. Apple doesn't even have a consequential monopoly anywhere on planet Earth. In the US it has half the app store market, that's it. Outside of the US its position is dramatically smaller. Amazon doesn't have a monopoly in anything other than e-books. Microsoft was one of the world's largest technology businesses before they acquired their desktop OS monopoly. Intel was one of the world's largest technology businesses before it acquired a monopoly in PC microprocessors. And Facebook - well absolutely nobody is stopping European nations from creating their own globe spanning social networks. The Europeans haven't done it and can't do it, for obvious reasons (fractured, incompatible markets). There are no nations in Europe eager to hamper their own giants, either. Germany isn't eager to cripple their auto giants (now or in the past). France isn't eager to cripple LVMH. Italy isn't eager to cripple Luxottica's monopoly. Spain isn't eager to crush Inditex. The Europeans wouldn't be rushing to destroy Airbus if they were to acquire a monopoly aerospace position. And so on.

reader_mode 5y ago
>And further, Europe is more protectionist than the US is and that has always been the case throughout all of US economic history. It will always be the case, due to the extreme nationalism that will always exist in Europe and the nationalist forever-conflicts between nations there which also will never cease. European Union started from "European Coal and Steel Community" which was basically a cartel. Calling anything free trade in relation to EU is ridiculous.
- Rexxar 5y ago
  Read the treaty and will see how wrong you are when you call this a cartel : https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/LSU/?uri=CELEX:11951K/TXT https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/LSU/?uri=CELEX:11...
  - reader_mode 5y ago
    I mean go read the OPEC mission statement - I'm sure you'll see it's about stabilising the supply and making things sustainable. But at the end of the day it's about profit and price controls. EU has an additional layer of PC on top but it's the same bullshit - it started out with coal and steel, then they added things like auto manufacturers and farmers. If you think EU is a free market institution you are seriously out of touch.
    - Rexxar 5y ago
      Comparing EU to OPEC is beyond ridiculous
fvdessen 5y ago
> Which of their own tech giants has Europe put into check against their own self-interest? None, because they can't create them to begin with. Europe and USA are not playing on a level field. The USA has a truly unified market (commerce / law / language) which lets its companies grow faster to monopoly, and from there sheer size and network effect prevent any competition from emerging. It is hard to blame European entrepreneurs from failing to compete with Google / Facebook when Americans can't seem to create any competitive alternative either. The nature of the game is whoever gets to monopoly first wins, and at that game a fragmented Europe is at a fatal disadvantage. The only counter is to prevent American monopolies from operating in your market to let local companies survive their slower growth. China has applied that strategy successfully, I hope Europe starts doing the same.