4 ms·

From scanning the list it seems like none of the 6 were started in the last 15+ years. That should be alarming to EU policy makers. As this divide grows, I wor

From scanning the list it seems like none of the 6 were started in the last 15+ years. That should be alarming to EU policy makers. As this divide grows, I worry that Europe may resort to protection mechanisms as a way to shield local companies and give them a chance to "grow". The future is more protectionism and less free trade. And that's not good for anyone.

missedthecue 5y ago
It's good for those that own the protected companies
- Sr_developer 5y ago
  Exactly,and to those "protected companies" you should add The Federal reserve The World-Bank The IMF and in general all the Bretton-Woods establishment designed and operated to ensure US economic supremacy. It is just not "those silly old-fashioned Europeans" playing the protectionism game.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
davedx 5y ago
Yes and no. Companies like BKNG and Adyen are doing very very well in the Netherlands: 94B and 58B respectively, both comparatively new companies. It’s just less easy to scale up here than it is in the US with a huge economy and one language. Prosus is also there on the first page
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- tpush 5y ago
  BKNG is American; The Dutch Booking.com was sold to what is now BKNG in 2005 for $133MM.
jollybean 5y ago
None of those companies were started in the last 15 years as far as I can tell. The list is skewed by propped up high growth stocks with much more built in risk than we might imagine to their long term growth. I don't see how Facebook necessarily has fat margins and growth for the next 20 years - they could conceivably go into decline. All the measures are crude but Revenues might be the best, because frankly 'profits/earnings' are more of an investor thing, that doesn't take into consideration all the other members of the value chain. Maybe 'Gross Margins' might be even better though difficult to determine, because Wallmart and Amazon (retail) operate on thinner margins, 'most of their sales' go down the value chain. By 'Revenue' Germany is actually batting above it's weight, Europe could probably do to have some kind of continental winners in certain areas but that's a really hard thing to do. Even with EU integration ... nobody wants to give up their national champions. The biggest negotiation ever that could happen in Europe would be for Germany/France/UK to maybe to agree on different sectors and allow/promote acquisitions along those lines. That will never happen of course. That could happen but more by large funds driving it to happen.
fvdessen 5y ago
Free trade also implies putting monopolies in check which the USA is glad not to do as that seems key to own the top 50 of largest companies. Europe being more protectionist against foreign monopolies would actually improve free trade and competition and be good for everybody
- adventured 5y ago
  Which of their own tech giants has Europe put into check against their own self-interest? None, because they can't create them to begin with. Unfortunately for Europe, making empty excuses won't help (as the past 20 years has overwhelmingly demonstrated). Free trade does not imply putting monopolies into check, as all monopolies are not an inherent restraint on trade. Besides that, there is no free trade anyway. It doesn't exist anywhere. When you sign trade agreements what you have is not free trade, you have structured trade agreements, not a scenario where anything goes. Trade agreements are specifically a restraint on trade, by agreement. Free trade is entirely an intellectual con. It can't exist, it has never existed, it will never exist. There isn't a single major nation that actually wants free trade, either. And further, Europe is more protectionist than the US is and that has always been the case throughout all of US economic history. It will always be the case, due to the extreme nationalism that will always exist in Europe and the nationalist forever-conflicts between nations there which also will never cease. Google wasn't a tech giant before it had an aging, entrenched monopoly? Of course it was. Google was one of the world's largest technology businesses by 2008, a mere decade after its founding. Apple doesn't even have a consequential monopoly anywhere on planet Earth. In the US it has half the app store market, that's it. Outside of the US its position is dramatically smaller. Amazon doesn't have a monopoly in anything other than e-books. Microsoft was one of the world's largest technology businesses before they acquired their desktop OS monopoly. Intel was one of the world's largest technology businesses before it acquired a monopoly in PC microprocessors. And Facebook - well absolutely nobody is stopping European nations from creating their own globe spanning social networks. The Europeans haven't done it and can't do it, for obvious reasons (fractured, incompatible markets). There are no nations in Europe eager to hamper their own giants, either. Germany isn't eager to cripple their auto giants (now or in the past). France isn't eager to cripple LVMH. Italy isn't eager to cripple Luxottica's monopoly. Spain isn't eager to crush Inditex. The Europeans wouldn't be rushing to destroy Airbus if they were to acquire a monopoly aerospace position. And so on.

missedthecue 5y ago

It's good for those that own the protected companies

Sr_developer 5y ago
Exactly,and to those "protected companies" you should add The Federal reserve The World-Bank The IMF and in general all the Bretton-Woods establishment designed and operated to ensure US economic supremacy. It is just not "those silly old-fashioned Europeans" playing the protectionism game.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

davedx 5y ago

Yes and no. Companies like BKNG and Adyen are doing very very well in the Netherlands: 94B and 58B respectively, both comparatively new companies. It’s just less easy to scale up here than it is in the US with a huge economy and one language. Prosus is also there on the first page

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
tpush 5y ago
BKNG is American; The Dutch Booking.com was sold to what is now BKNG in 2005 for $133MM.

jollybean 5y ago

None of those companies were started in the last 15 years as far as I can tell. The list is skewed by propped up high growth stocks with much more built in risk than we might imagine to their long term growth. I don't see how Facebook necessarily has fat margins and growth for the next 20 years - they could conceivably go into decline. All the measures are crude but Revenues might be the best, because frankly 'profits/earnings' are more of an investor thing, that doesn't take into consideration all the other members of the value chain. Maybe 'Gross Margins' might be even better though difficult to determine, because Wallmart and Amazon (retail) operate on thinner margins, 'most of their sales' go down the value chain. By 'Revenue' Germany is actually batting above it's weight, Europe could probably do to have some kind of continental winners in certain areas but that's a really hard thing to do. Even with EU integration ... nobody wants to give up their national champions. The biggest negotiation ever that could happen in Europe would be for Germany/France/UK to maybe to agree on different sectors and allow/promote acquisitions along those lines. That will never happen of course. That could happen but more by large funds driving it to happen.

fvdessen 5y ago

Free trade also implies putting monopolies in check which the USA is glad not to do as that seems key to own the top 50 of largest companies. Europe being more protectionist against foreign monopolies would actually improve free trade and competition and be good for everybody

adventured 5y ago
Which of their own tech giants has Europe put into check against their own self-interest? None, because they can't create them to begin with. Unfortunately for Europe, making empty excuses won't help (as the past 20 years has overwhelmingly demonstrated). Free trade does not imply putting monopolies into check, as all monopolies are not an inherent restraint on trade. Besides that, there is no free trade anyway. It doesn't exist anywhere. When you sign trade agreements what you have is not free trade, you have structured trade agreements, not a scenario where anything goes. Trade agreements are specifically a restraint on trade, by agreement. Free trade is entirely an intellectual con. It can't exist, it has never existed, it will never exist. There isn't a single major nation that actually wants free trade, either. And further, Europe is more protectionist than the US is and that has always been the case throughout all of US economic history. It will always be the case, due to the extreme nationalism that will always exist in Europe and the nationalist forever-conflicts between nations there which also will never cease. Google wasn't a tech giant before it had an aging, entrenched monopoly? Of course it was. Google was one of the world's largest technology businesses by 2008, a mere decade after its founding. Apple doesn't even have a consequential monopoly anywhere on planet Earth. In the US it has half the app store market, that's it. Outside of the US its position is dramatically smaller. Amazon doesn't have a monopoly in anything other than e-books. Microsoft was one of the world's largest technology businesses before they acquired their desktop OS monopoly. Intel was one of the world's largest technology businesses before it acquired a monopoly in PC microprocessors. And Facebook - well absolutely nobody is stopping European nations from creating their own globe spanning social networks. The Europeans haven't done it and can't do it, for obvious reasons (fractured, incompatible markets). There are no nations in Europe eager to hamper their own giants, either. Germany isn't eager to cripple their auto giants (now or in the past). France isn't eager to cripple LVMH. Italy isn't eager to cripple Luxottica's monopoly. Spain isn't eager to crush Inditex. The Europeans wouldn't be rushing to destroy Airbus if they were to acquire a monopoly aerospace position. And so on.