7 ms·

I mean, sure, but why are we talking about Fox specifically? CNN, MSNBC, etc. are just as bad. I find this ironic since this thread is about how bias isn't nece

I mean, sure, but why are we talking about Fox specifically? CNN, MSNBC, etc. are just as bad. I find this ironic since this thread is about how bias isn't necessarily about outright falsehoods, but story selection and what is not said :)

boredprograming 5y ago
Fox news personalities frequently allow Trump and his allies airtime where they lie about losing the election to Biden. I don't know how you get any less truthful than that
- Moodles 5y ago
  They allow the previous president airtime!? Quick, someone call the cops.
  - boredprograming 5y ago
    When he does nothing but lie about election fraud on their airwaves? Pretty normal for a news company
    - Moodles 5y ago
      We should refund the police, and then call them! What are you arguing about? 1. Someone mentions Fox being bad for bias in story selection. 2. I ask: why are we singling out Fox specifically? Others do it too? 3. You say: "They give Trump airtime!" Ok? That is a difference I guess? Not got much to do with what we're talking about though?
      - boredprograming 5y ago
        It's an example of how Fox is less honest than other news companies, exactly what you asked for. They let people on air spout obvious lies all the time. Find a mainstream channel that does the same. I'll wait
        gabriel9 5y ago
        I am not from US. And could not care less who won. I think there is no less honest. It is simple, you lie or don't. In my eyes they are all bad, and it is up to me to inform myself.
        Moodles 5y ago
        Indeed. This thread is clearly a lost cause.
        rkk3 5y ago
        > It's an example of how Fox is less honest than other news companies Is it less honest or is it just a narrative you don't like. > They let people on air spout obvious lies all the time. Find a mainstream channel that does the same. I'll wait MSNBC just like the other outrage opinion info-tainments has a lack of nuance (what you call lies) in many of its narratives.
        myfavoritedog 5y ago
        Day after day for two years, MSNBC and CNN hosts and guests went on and on about how Trump was beholden to Putin. There was a "pee pee tape", remember? There were deals that Trump and Trump Jr. made in a Trump Tower meeting that would give Putin certain guarantees in exchange for his help in getting Trump elected. Pulitzers were given to newspapers that printed one breathless anonymously-sourced accusation after another. None of it turned out to be true. When you compare the Adam Schiff memo release with the Devin Nunes memo, you can see that Nunes' memo was accurate. Schiff's memo was full of misinformation. Schiff was one of those guests who appeared on CNN and MSNBC over and over, claiming that there was evidence for "Russia collusion with the Trump campaign". He later had to retract that repeated lie. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q2su1iknyk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q2su1iknyk Mueller and his team of Democrats instead tried to make a case for obstruction against a President who waived all executive and even most of his attorney-client privilege. Even the impeachment-hungry Democrats in the House couldn't mount impeachment charges on that weak claim. What a waste all that was, and it was egged on and sometimes even fabricated at every turn by CNN, MSNBC, NYT, and WaPo. But keep pretending that Fox News is some big boogeyman or even an outlier in the news business.
- throwaway8582 5y ago
  How about making up fake stories about Russian prostitutes and hackers to try and overturn the results of an election that didn't go your way? Anyone that wants to complain about Fox News and let CNN, MSNBC, NYT, WaPo, and the rest of the "mainstream" media outlets slide for printing that garbage after the 2016 election is not being intellectually honest.
  - boredprograming 5y ago
    Russians did try to influence the election, the Mueller report resulted in many indictments. Trump pardoned 2 of those convicted for lying to the FBI during these investigations, George Papadopoulos and Alex van der Zwaan And when did anyone try to overturn the election results? Hillary conceded within days. Trump still hasn't. You're in la la land, no point talking to you
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- myfavoritedog 5y ago
  Stacey Abrams lied about being cheated out of the Georgia gubernatorial election and then the most recent Democrat candidate for President at the time kept up the lie: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-says-stacey-abrams-would-have-won-already-if-she-had-a-fair-election_n_5bec337ce4b0caeec2c077ef https://www.huffpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-says-stacey-a... And yet, Hillary Clinton (who made her own claims that Russia had helped Trump steal the Presidential election from her) was a guest on mainstream news programs over and over. Do you apply the same standards to Hillary Clinton that you apply to Trump?
mariodiana 5y ago
Jonathan Haidt (who is mentioned in the article) did a study years ago. He separated a group of people into conservatives and liberals and then gave them a questionnaire on politics. Then he got a second group, separated them, and gave them the same questionnaire. Only he asked the second group of liberals and conservatives to answer the questionnaire the way they imagined the other side would. What he found was that conservatives had no trouble answering the way liberals do. However, liberals could not do likewise. Liberals frequently chose the red herrings on the multiple choice questions, the ones that exaggerated the conservative positions to the point of more or less demonizing conservatives. That's why we're talking about Fox News, don't you see? CNN and MSNBC are just folks. Fox News is the Anti-Christ. Even the article itself has this same smell of bias about it.
- Moodles 5y ago
  Yeah, that doesn't surprise me at all actually. I'm sure both side demonize the other to some extent, and it's our natural reaction to look at them both as equally bad like we're disciplining two siblings or something, but it really seems that right now the left is more melodramatic in the demonization than the right. In my personal experience, quite a few people I've met seem to think if you disagree with them, you must be full of hate, racist, sexist, dumb, a gun slinging Christian, etc.
  - myfavoritedog 5y ago
    It's all part and parcel of the same problem. The default media narrative bubble leans heavily to the left. People trapped in that bubble are overly confident in what they believe. They aren't often exposed to arguments and data that are contrary to what they're told to believe over and over whenever they turn on the TV. So when these trapped people are confronted with opposing arguments or data, they resort to the easy mechanisms that relieve their cognitive dissonance. "You're a racist" "You're a homophobe" "You're a white supremacist" "You want sick people to die in the streets"
  - aidenn0 5y ago
    My wife (who is pretty far left), observed that Trump was actually many of the things that G.W. Bush was accused of being. I think a major tenet of post-trump Republicanism is roughly: "We're going to be accused of being racist and conspiracy theorists by the left no matter what we do, so there is only an upside to openly courting those members of the electorate.

boredprograming 5y ago

Fox news personalities frequently allow Trump and his allies airtime where they lie about losing the election to Biden. I don't know how you get any less truthful than that

Moodles 5y ago
They allow the previous president airtime!? Quick, someone call the cops.
- boredprograming 5y ago
  When he does nothing but lie about election fraud on their airwaves? Pretty normal for a news company
  - Moodles 5y ago
    We should refund the police, and then call them! What are you arguing about? 1. Someone mentions Fox being bad for bias in story selection. 2. I ask: why are we singling out Fox specifically? Others do it too? 3. You say: "They give Trump airtime!" Ok? That is a difference I guess? Not got much to do with what we're talking about though?
    - boredprograming 5y ago
      It's an example of how Fox is less honest than other news companies, exactly what you asked for. They let people on air spout obvious lies all the time. Find a mainstream channel that does the same. I'll wait
      - gabriel9 5y ago
        I am not from US. And could not care less who won. I think there is no less honest. It is simple, you lie or don't. In my eyes they are all bad, and it is up to me to inform myself.
        Moodles 5y ago
        Indeed. This thread is clearly a lost cause.
      - rkk3 5y ago
        > It's an example of how Fox is less honest than other news companies Is it less honest or is it just a narrative you don't like. > They let people on air spout obvious lies all the time. Find a mainstream channel that does the same. I'll wait MSNBC just like the other outrage opinion info-tainments has a lack of nuance (what you call lies) in many of its narratives.
      - myfavoritedog 5y ago
        Day after day for two years, MSNBC and CNN hosts and guests went on and on about how Trump was beholden to Putin. There was a "pee pee tape", remember? There were deals that Trump and Trump Jr. made in a Trump Tower meeting that would give Putin certain guarantees in exchange for his help in getting Trump elected. Pulitzers were given to newspapers that printed one breathless anonymously-sourced accusation after another. None of it turned out to be true. When you compare the Adam Schiff memo release with the Devin Nunes memo, you can see that Nunes' memo was accurate. Schiff's memo was full of misinformation. Schiff was one of those guests who appeared on CNN and MSNBC over and over, claiming that there was evidence for "Russia collusion with the Trump campaign". He later had to retract that repeated lie. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q2su1iknyk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q2su1iknyk Mueller and his team of Democrats instead tried to make a case for obstruction against a President who waived all executive and even most of his attorney-client privilege. Even the impeachment-hungry Democrats in the House couldn't mount impeachment charges on that weak claim. What a waste all that was, and it was egged on and sometimes even fabricated at every turn by CNN, MSNBC, NYT, and WaPo. But keep pretending that Fox News is some big boogeyman or even an outlier in the news business.
throwaway8582 5y ago
How about making up fake stories about Russian prostitutes and hackers to try and overturn the results of an election that didn't go your way? Anyone that wants to complain about Fox News and let CNN, MSNBC, NYT, WaPo, and the rest of the "mainstream" media outlets slide for printing that garbage after the 2016 election is not being intellectually honest.
- boredprograming 5y ago
  Russians did try to influence the election, the Mueller report resulted in many indictments. Trump pardoned 2 of those convicted for lying to the FBI during these investigations, George Papadopoulos and Alex van der Zwaan And when did anyone try to overturn the election results? Hillary conceded within days. Trump still hasn't. You're in la la land, no point talking to you
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
myfavoritedog 5y ago
Stacey Abrams lied about being cheated out of the Georgia gubernatorial election and then the most recent Democrat candidate for President at the time kept up the lie: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-says-stacey-abrams-would-have-won-already-if-she-had-a-fair-election_n_5bec337ce4b0caeec2c077ef https://www.huffpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-says-stacey-a... And yet, Hillary Clinton (who made her own claims that Russia had helped Trump steal the Presidential election from her) was a guest on mainstream news programs over and over. Do you apply the same standards to Hillary Clinton that you apply to Trump?

mariodiana 5y ago

Jonathan Haidt (who is mentioned in the article) did a study years ago. He separated a group of people into conservatives and liberals and then gave them a questionnaire on politics. Then he got a second group, separated them, and gave them the same questionnaire. Only he asked the second group of liberals and conservatives to answer the questionnaire the way they imagined the other side would. What he found was that conservatives had no trouble answering the way liberals do. However, liberals could not do likewise. Liberals frequently chose the red herrings on the multiple choice questions, the ones that exaggerated the conservative positions to the point of more or less demonizing conservatives. That's why we're talking about Fox News, don't you see? CNN and MSNBC are just folks. Fox News is the Anti-Christ. Even the article itself has this same smell of bias about it.

Moodles 5y ago
Yeah, that doesn't surprise me at all actually. I'm sure both side demonize the other to some extent, and it's our natural reaction to look at them both as equally bad like we're disciplining two siblings or something, but it really seems that right now the left is more melodramatic in the demonization than the right. In my personal experience, quite a few people I've met seem to think if you disagree with them, you must be full of hate, racist, sexist, dumb, a gun slinging Christian, etc.
- myfavoritedog 5y ago
  It's all part and parcel of the same problem. The default media narrative bubble leans heavily to the left. People trapped in that bubble are overly confident in what they believe. They aren't often exposed to arguments and data that are contrary to what they're told to believe over and over whenever they turn on the TV. So when these trapped people are confronted with opposing arguments or data, they resort to the easy mechanisms that relieve their cognitive dissonance. "You're a racist" "You're a homophobe" "You're a white supremacist" "You want sick people to die in the streets"
- aidenn0 5y ago
  My wife (who is pretty far left), observed that Trump was actually many of the things that G.W. Bush was accused of being. I think a major tenet of post-trump Republicanism is roughly: "We're going to be accused of being racist and conspiracy theorists by the left no matter what we do, so there is only an upside to openly courting those members of the electorate.