6 ms·

Can someone provide some background? What started this?

gvb 5y ago
Freenode IRC staff resign en masse after takeover by Korea’s “crown prince” https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/freenode-irc-has-been-taken-over-by-the-crown-prince-of-korea/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/freenode-irc-has-bee... Lots of HN discussion: https://www.google.com/search?q=freenode+site%3Anews.ycombinator.com https://www.google.com/search?q=freenode+site%3Anews.ycombin...
zatertip 5y ago
Events up until May 24th: https://gist.github.com/joepie91/df80d8d36cd9d1bde46ba018af497409 https://gist.github.com/joepie91/df80d8d36cd9d1bde46ba018af4... After that, at every turn when Andrew Lee has been given the choice between doing the right thing and acting like a comic book villain, he has chosen the latter. Removed any restraint on staff, tried to bribe FOSSHOST to be the face of his operations, hired known trolls and right-wing extremists as staff. More materially, he has killed or driven away ##linux, #fsf, #gnu, #archlinux, #gentoo, #fedora, #ubuntu, #wikipedia and OVER 700 MORE PROJECTS: https://github.com/siraben/freenode-exodus https://github.com/siraben/freenode-exodus And he is not done yet. He has announced that soon he will switch the whole network over to a new irc daemon, which he will fail at because he doesn't know how and the people who do won't touch him with a 7-foot pole: https://www.reddit.com/r/irc/comments/nyp855/new_freenode_management_hijacks_linux_rust_and/h1llpgz/ https://www.reddit.com/r/irc/comments/nyp855/new_freenode_ma...
- craftinator 5y ago
  All of this really puts Lee's evangelizing of Private Internet Access into a new light, doesn't it?
  - ConcernedCoder 5y ago
    Lee ... founded popular VPN company Private Internet Access, LTMI, which last year sold to an Israeli cybersecurity firm for $95.5 million. IMHO, at this point you need to seriously consider the possibility that everything he's touched, including Freenode, could be compromised in some way, if not already a literal "honeypot"... Off-topic: I love his new house: https://www.insider.com/south-korean-royals-california-mansion-photos-2020-12 https://www.insider.com/south-korean-royals-california-mansi...
  - almostbasic 5y ago
    Andrew Lee sold Private Internet Access in 2019 and has nothing to do with them anymore. Likewise, PIA has nothing to do with Freenode.
dec0dedab0de 5y ago
There have been many stories on HN, but as far as I know the basic story is like this. Someone bought the freenode domain name The group of people that ran freenode get in an argument with that person All of the previous administrators leave to start libera the new owner of freenode installs his own administrators. Channels start switching to libera freenode bans any one discussing libera freenode seizes channels that are in the process of migrating, because they consider libera competition.
fsloth 5y ago
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/freenode-irc-has-been-taken-over-by-the-crown-prince-of-korea/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/freenode-irc-has-bee... Abbreviated: A LLC has enough papers to prove that they own Freenode, and they have more money than the Freenode past volunteers to spend in court fighting over this. Hence the Freenode volunteers decided to abandon Freenode. Lesson: Even though you are a fully volunteer organization, always maintain an explicit paper trail that holds in court who owns and what, or someone will at some point simply come up with some documentation to their advantage and claim what you've built as their own.
- matwood 5y ago
  The bigger lesson is anytime there is something of value with more than a single person involved, all assumptions need to be written down and codified. I'll add that if friends are involved, even more so.
- myfavoritedog 5y ago
  Interesting. So how much did Lee pay for Freenode? Did that all go to Christel Dahlskjaer?
  - klyrs 5y ago
    As I understand it, Lee paid for the domain name and generously donated hosting -- and had done for years. Thus, he had keys to the house, and when he decided that he owned it, nobody could stop him short of a court injunction. But apparently there was no clear legal agreement, so nothing can be done.
    - myfavoritedog 5y ago
      From the Arstechnica article: In 2017, Christel Dahlskjaer—who was, at the time, head of Freenode staff—created a corporation, Freenode Ltd., which she immediately sold to Lee. Sounds like some money exchanged hands.
- joepie91_ 5y ago
techrat 5y ago
TLDR Bullet Point version. * Founder lilo/Rob died. * Christel became new head of staff. * Christel "sold" Freenode to Andrew Lee (of which was not hers to sell) and never told the rest of Freenode staff the terms. * Lee decided to assert himself by claiming he owned all of Freenode and that the staff had to hand over the keys to the kingdom to him. * Staff resisted, Lee used threats. Staff decided it was better to move on. * Libera.chat formed. * Since the majority of Freenode was the relationship a lot of projects had with the now ex-Freenode staffers, most decided to go with the staff to Libera. * Lee threw a fit and decided to use a bot to hijack 700+ channels that happened to mention "libera" in the topic, regardless if the channel actually intended to move over. This included channels owned by IBM, Ubuntu, Gentoo, Wikimedia, GCC, etc... * Channel takeovers continued despite his apology when caught. * Lee is certifiable. https://corrupt.tech/1708590130-ocr-compressed.pdf https://corrupt.tech/1708590130-ocr-compressed.pdf
- Jaygles 5y ago
  > Christel "sold" Freenode to Andrew Lee (of which was not hers to sell) and never told the rest of Freenode staff the terms. If this is the case, is anyone pursuing a way to invalidate the sale?
  - LegitShady 5y ago
    Because likely nobody who can afford to has any standing.
- jeltz 5y ago
  Is it known how much money Christel got?
  - techrat 5y ago
    No. However, it should be noted that she is the CCO of PIA, which was Lee's company before he sold it.

gvb 5y ago

Freenode IRC staff resign en masse after takeover by Korea’s “crown prince” https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/freenode-irc-has-been-taken-over-by-the-crown-prince-of-korea/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/freenode-irc-has-bee... Lots of HN discussion: https://www.google.com/search?q=freenode+site%3Anews.ycombinator.com https://www.google.com/search?q=freenode+site%3Anews.ycombin...

zatertip 5y ago

Events up until May 24th: https://gist.github.com/joepie91/df80d8d36cd9d1bde46ba018af497409 https://gist.github.com/joepie91/df80d8d36cd9d1bde46ba018af4... After that, at every turn when Andrew Lee has been given the choice between doing the right thing and acting like a comic book villain, he has chosen the latter. Removed any restraint on staff, tried to bribe FOSSHOST to be the face of his operations, hired known trolls and right-wing extremists as staff. More materially, he has killed or driven away ##linux, #fsf, #gnu, #archlinux, #gentoo, #fedora, #ubuntu, #wikipedia and OVER 700 MORE PROJECTS: https://github.com/siraben/freenode-exodus https://github.com/siraben/freenode-exodus And he is not done yet. He has announced that soon he will switch the whole network over to a new irc daemon, which he will fail at because he doesn't know how and the people who do won't touch him with a 7-foot pole: https://www.reddit.com/r/irc/comments/nyp855/new_freenode_management_hijacks_linux_rust_and/h1llpgz/ https://www.reddit.com/r/irc/comments/nyp855/new_freenode_ma...

craftinator 5y ago
All of this really puts Lee's evangelizing of Private Internet Access into a new light, doesn't it?
- ConcernedCoder 5y ago
  Lee ... founded popular VPN company Private Internet Access, LTMI, which last year sold to an Israeli cybersecurity firm for $95.5 million. IMHO, at this point you need to seriously consider the possibility that everything he's touched, including Freenode, could be compromised in some way, if not already a literal "honeypot"... Off-topic: I love his new house: https://www.insider.com/south-korean-royals-california-mansion-photos-2020-12 https://www.insider.com/south-korean-royals-california-mansi...
- almostbasic 5y ago
  Andrew Lee sold Private Internet Access in 2019 and has nothing to do with them anymore. Likewise, PIA has nothing to do with Freenode.

dec0dedab0de 5y ago

There have been many stories on HN, but as far as I know the basic story is like this. Someone bought the freenode domain name The group of people that ran freenode get in an argument with that person All of the previous administrators leave to start libera the new owner of freenode installs his own administrators. Channels start switching to libera freenode bans any one discussing libera freenode seizes channels that are in the process of migrating, because they consider libera competition.

fsloth 5y ago

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/freenode-irc-has-been-taken-over-by-the-crown-prince-of-korea/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/freenode-irc-has-bee... Abbreviated: A LLC has enough papers to prove that they own Freenode, and they have more money than the Freenode past volunteers to spend in court fighting over this. Hence the Freenode volunteers decided to abandon Freenode. Lesson: Even though you are a fully volunteer organization, always maintain an explicit paper trail that holds in court who owns and what, or someone will at some point simply come up with some documentation to their advantage and claim what you've built as their own.

matwood 5y ago
The bigger lesson is anytime there is something of value with more than a single person involved, all assumptions need to be written down and codified. I'll add that if friends are involved, even more so.
myfavoritedog 5y ago
Interesting. So how much did Lee pay for Freenode? Did that all go to Christel Dahlskjaer?
- klyrs 5y ago
  As I understand it, Lee paid for the domain name and generously donated hosting -- and had done for years. Thus, he had keys to the house, and when he decided that he owned it, nobody could stop him short of a court injunction. But apparently there was no clear legal agreement, so nothing can be done.
  - myfavoritedog 5y ago
    From the Arstechnica article: In 2017, Christel Dahlskjaer—who was, at the time, head of Freenode staff—created a corporation, Freenode Ltd., which she immediately sold to Lee. Sounds like some money exchanged hands.
joepie91_ 5y ago

techrat 5y ago

TLDR Bullet Point version. * Founder lilo/Rob died. * Christel became new head of staff. * Christel "sold" Freenode to Andrew Lee (of which was not hers to sell) and never told the rest of Freenode staff the terms. * Lee decided to assert himself by claiming he owned all of Freenode and that the staff had to hand over the keys to the kingdom to him. * Staff resisted, Lee used threats. Staff decided it was better to move on. * Libera.chat formed. * Since the majority of Freenode was the relationship a lot of projects had with the now ex-Freenode staffers, most decided to go with the staff to Libera. * Lee threw a fit and decided to use a bot to hijack 700+ channels that happened to mention "libera" in the topic, regardless if the channel actually intended to move over. This included channels owned by IBM, Ubuntu, Gentoo, Wikimedia, GCC, etc... * Channel takeovers continued despite his apology when caught. * Lee is certifiable. https://corrupt.tech/1708590130-ocr-compressed.pdf https://corrupt.tech/1708590130-ocr-compressed.pdf

Jaygles 5y ago
> Christel "sold" Freenode to Andrew Lee (of which was not hers to sell) and never told the rest of Freenode staff the terms. If this is the case, is anyone pursuing a way to invalidate the sale?
- LegitShady 5y ago
  Because likely nobody who can afford to has any standing.
jeltz 5y ago
Is it known how much money Christel got?
- techrat 5y ago
  No. However, it should be noted that she is the CCO of PIA, which was Lee's company before he sold it.